Penn Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Veyron
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Veyron » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:17 pm

underachiever wrote:
Georgiana wrote:
niederbomb wrote:What happens if you are geographically unable to visit before August to look for apartments?

Grad housing? Is it that bad? lol

Sansom is pretty bad... I don't know anyone who lived there who liked it for any reason other than 1) proximity to school and 2) 9 month lease option.

If you can't visit, I know people who signed with 2400 sight unseen, there are also admits generally looking for roommates in 2400 so you can pair up with one of them and maybe they have time to go look at places.



DO NOT LIVE IN SANSOM!

I live in 2400 now and its okay. Electric can run high in the Summer and Winter but past that its 1 of the best large apt buildings from which you can walk to school.



Sansom is a festering shithole. Still thinking about living there next year for the convenience tho. Anyone know how far the rennovations have progressed?

janec
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby janec » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:04 pm

Any thoughts on Westminster Arch? The reviews I've read have all said similar things: good deal for the price and decent location. Can anyone here say anything about this place?

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underachiever
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby underachiever » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:09 pm

silly101 wrote:
underachiever wrote:
Georgiana wrote:
niederbomb wrote:What happens if you are geographically unable to visit before August to look for apartments?

Grad housing? Is it that bad? lol

Sansom is pretty bad... I don't know anyone who lived there who liked it for any reason other than 1) proximity to school and 2) 9 month lease option.

If you can't visit, I know people who signed with 2400 sight unseen, there are also admits generally looking for roommates in 2400 so you can pair up with one of them and maybe they have time to go look at places.



DO NOT LIVE IN SANSOM!

I live in 2400 now and its okay. Electric can run high in the Summer and Winter but past that its 1 of the best large apt buildings from which you can walk to school.


is it easy to find summer subletters


Yes and no

You have to be proactive (ie post on craigslist before April) but yes, all of my friends in center city found them

lolok
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby lolok » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:53 pm

Just deposited at Penn! :D Now I can start stressing about housing, haha. I have a summer job in Philadelphia and will be in the city beginning in like mid-June. I kind of don't want to start looking for housing for the academic year (I already have somewhere to live for the summer) before then because it will be a huge hassle to get into the city to look at places. What are the chances I'll be able to find something with a lease beginning either August or September 1 if I start looking in June? Is that too late? I live in a huge university town right now where you need to start looking in October for leases for the next academic year, so I'm kind of worried that everywhere will be rented by June.

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Upton Sinclair
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Upton Sinclair » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:10 pm

lolok wrote:Just deposited at Penn! :D Now I can start stressing about housing, haha. I have a summer job in Philadelphia and will be in the city beginning in like mid-June. I kind of don't want to start looking for housing for the academic year (I already have somewhere to live for the summer) before then because it will be a huge hassle to get into the city to look at places. What are the chances I'll be able to find something with a lease beginning either August or September 1 if I start looking in June? Is that too late? I live in a huge university town right now where you need to start looking in October for leases for the next academic year, so I'm kind of worried that everywhere will be rented by June.


Most of the places I looked at said that late May to early June is a good timeframe to look. They require 60 day move out notices, so they'll know their availability for August around that time.

keg411
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby keg411 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:22 am

pereira6 wrote:
Georgiana wrote:
pereira6 wrote:What are the laundry and grocery store proximities to 2400? Do people typically walk there? I won't be having a car my 1L year, perhaps ever.

What are good places to live with laundry/stores right there? I would enjoy having a roommate, for what its worth.

2400 has laundry so theres no worries there.

And the most convenient thing for groceries is genuardis.com which delivers. There's a Trader Joe's on 21st and Market and a Whole Foods on 20th and Callowhill-ish. There are also a few smaller markets for quick shopping. Philly is not great on grocery shopping.



Looks like I'll have to convince a friend with a car to go to a Wegmans 15-20 minutes away! It's totally worth it, for anyone who's never been. Best grocery store in the world, period
.

Is 2400's laundry coin-op?


I don't go to Penn, but the Wegman's in Cherry Hill is the best store ever. It is 100% worth it. (If you go Saturday/Sunday mornings you get to see all of Cherry Hill decked out in Phillies/Eagles gear :lol:).

pereira6
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby pereira6 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:08 pm

keg411 wrote:
pereira6 wrote:
Georgiana wrote:
pereira6 wrote:What are the laundry and grocery store proximities to 2400? Do people typically walk there? I won't be having a car my 1L year, perhaps ever.

What are good places to live with laundry/stores right there? I would enjoy having a roommate, for what its worth.

2400 has laundry so theres no worries there.

And the most convenient thing for groceries is genuardis.com which delivers. There's a Trader Joe's on 21st and Market and a Whole Foods on 20th and Callowhill-ish. There are also a few smaller markets for quick shopping. Philly is not great on grocery shopping.



Looks like I'll have to convince a friend with a car to go to a Wegmans 15-20 minutes away! It's totally worth it, for anyone who's never been. Best grocery store in the world, period
.

Is 2400's laundry coin-op?


I don't go to Penn, but the Wegman's in Cherry Hill is the best store ever. It is 100% worth it. (If you go Saturday/Sunday mornings you get to see all of Cherry Hill decked out in Phillies/Eagles gear :lol:).


Just another satisfied customer. TLS, take note on what you may be missing out on :)

mapes
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby mapes » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:50 am

janec wrote:Any thoughts on Westminster Arch? The reviews I've read have all said similar things: good deal for the price and decent location. Can anyone here say anything about this place?


Also interested in this... the price for that location seems almost too good. Any thoughts anyone?

crimcrim
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby crimcrim » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:23 am

New poster here, sorry if this has been addressed already:

How does firm recruiting for 1Ls work (and I guess 2Ls) if Penn doesn't assign GPAs/ranks? Do recruiters look at other things (college GPA/LSAT), or do people generally calculate their own GPA and put that in there?

Thanks for the help yall

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Veyron
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Veyron » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:37 pm

crimcrim wrote:New poster here, sorry if this has been addressed already:

How does firm recruiting for 1Ls work (and I guess 2Ls) if Penn doesn't assign GPAs/ranks? Do recruiters look at other things (college GPA/LSAT), or do people generally calculate their own GPA and put that in there?

Thanks for the help yall


No, you could get in some trouble if you calculate your own GPA and put it on your resume. Generally, employers know about where you are in the class if they do a lot of recruiting here (i.e. a combination of all As of some sort = top 10%, smattering of Bs, B+s an A- or 2 = medianish, all B-s, bottom of the class, etc.

I will say that it does seem to make the grades matter a bit less here and interview skills and resume matter a bit more. You always hear about people With mostly Bs getting V100 jobs and kids with a ton of As striking out.

pereira6
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby pereira6 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:07 pm

Veyron wrote:
crimcrim wrote:New poster here, sorry if this has been addressed already:

How does firm recruiting for 1Ls work (and I guess 2Ls) if Penn doesn't assign GPAs/ranks? Do recruiters look at other things (college GPA/LSAT), or do people generally calculate their own GPA and put that in there?

Thanks for the help yall


No, you could get in some trouble if you calculate your own GPA and put it on your resume. Generally, employers know about where you are in the class if they do a lot of recruiting here (i.e. a combination of all As of some sort = top 10%, smattering of Bs, B+s an A- or 2 = medianish, all B-s, bottom of the class, etc.

I will say that it does seem to make the grades matter a bit less here and interview skills and resume matter a bit more. You always hear about people With mostly Bs getting V100 jobs and kids with a ton of As striking out.


:shock: How often is "always", bud?

Coming straight from UG, I have a decent resume but not exactly earth-shattering...

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Veyron
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Veyron » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:08 pm

pereira6 wrote:
Veyron wrote:
crimcrim wrote:New poster here, sorry if this has been addressed already:

How does firm recruiting for 1Ls work (and I guess 2Ls) if Penn doesn't assign GPAs/ranks? Do recruiters look at other things (college GPA/LSAT), or do people generally calculate their own GPA and put that in there?

Thanks for the help yall


No, you could get in some trouble if you calculate your own GPA and put it on your resume. Generally, employers know about where you are in the class if they do a lot of recruiting here (i.e. a combination of all As of some sort = top 10%, smattering of Bs, B+s an A- or 2 = medianish, all B-s, bottom of the class, etc.

I will say that it does seem to make the grades matter a bit less here and interview skills and resume matter a bit more. You always hear about people With mostly Bs getting V100 jobs and kids with a ton of As striking out.


:shock: How often is "always", bud?

Coming straight from UG, I have a decent resume but not exactly earth-shattering...


As in, you always hear about it because it is so shocking, not it always happens. Its obviously the exception, not the rule. Its just that these stories tend to resonate and make the rounds. Honestly, if you strike out with those kinds of grades, well, I don't know what to say about you.

But, yes, there are people who are THAT socially inept. OCI doesn't work like law school admissions, numbers aren't everything.

Edit: Here is a good way to test yourself:

Do you have all As?

Have you gone on a date with a 6 or better within the past year?

Did you use at least some of your bids on firms outside of the V5?

If you answered yes to all of these questions the only way that you will strike out at OCI is if the singularity hits and our robot overlords reduce us all to playthings to satisfy their carnal desires. Even then, I'd say you have a fighting chance.

pereira6
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby pereira6 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:37 pm

Veyron wrote:
As in, you always hear about it because it is so shocking, not it always happens. Its obviously the exception, not the rule. Its just that these stories tend to resonate and make the rounds. Honestly, if you strike out with those kinds of grades, well, I don't know what to say about you.

But, yes, there are people who are THAT socially inept. OCI doesn't work like law school admissions, numbers aren't everything.

Edit: Here is a good way to test yourself:

Do you have all As?

Have you gone on a date with a 6 or better within the past year?

Did you use at least some of your bids on firms outside of the V5?

If you answered yes to all of these questions the only way that you will strike out at OCI is if the singularity hits and our robot overlords reduce us all to playthings to satisfy their carnal desires. Even then, I'd say you have a fighting chance.

Cool, makes sense. How bout those median kids, particularly the straight-from-UG types? The ones who don't suck at life but don't have sexy WE, they doing alright?

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Veyron
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Veyron » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:41 pm

pereira6 wrote:
Veyron wrote:
As in, you always hear about it because it is so shocking, not it always happens. Its obviously the exception, not the rule. Its just that these stories tend to resonate and make the rounds. Honestly, if you strike out with those kinds of grades, well, I don't know what to say about you.

But, yes, there are people who are THAT socially inept. OCI doesn't work like law school admissions, numbers aren't everything.

Edit: Here is a good way to test yourself:

Do you have all As?

Have you gone on a date with a 6 or better within the past year?

Did you use at least some of your bids on firms outside of the V5?

If you answered yes to all of these questions the only way that you will strike out at OCI is if the singularity hits and our robot overlords reduce us all to playthings to satisfy their carnal desires. Even then, I'd say you have a fighting chance.

Cool, makes sense. How bout those median kids, particularly the straight-from-UG types? The ones who don't suck at life but don't have sexy WE, they doing alright?


I'm median. OCI and summer recruiting went well for me (1L) BUT I have a really strong resume.

Anecdotally, firms have started caring about work experience much more ITE. I have know kids all up and down the T-14. Some with spectacular grades. Work experience seems to be closely related to their success at OCI. People make a big deal about the rank of this school or that school but what I've been told by recruiters is that once you hit the T-10 level, a lot of firms will just stop caring about grades all that much. Yah, the bottom is going to get a ding. Yah, the top is going to be in good shape, but for the majority of the class, its about fit. Now, that's not to say you can't have a solid resume straight from undergrad, it just depends on what you've done and how well you can talk about it.

By the way, these are just my impressions from 1L recruiting and talking to hiring partners. If any 2L wants to elaborate or better inform me as to any point, that would be super.

pereira6
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby pereira6 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:47 pm

Veyron wrote:
pereira6 wrote:Cool, makes sense. How bout those median kids, particularly the straight-from-UG types? The ones who don't suck at life but don't have sexy WE, they doing alright?


I'm median. OCI and summer recruiting went well for me (1L) BUT I have a really strong resume.

Anecdotally, firms have started caring about work experience much more ITE. I have know kids all up and down the T-14, all with pretty solid grades. Some with spectacular grades. Work experience seems to be closely related to their success at OCI.


Eh...Here's hoping a couple good experiences and the M.A. I have are worth something.

Man, I wish it was an option for me to take some years off. I'm guessing I just have to compensate with grades, which hopefully will happen.

Edit: my bad for quick-responding your pre-edited post

FiveSermon
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby FiveSermon » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:52 pm

How did Veyron end up at median? Blasphemy.

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Veyron
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Veyron » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:07 pm

FiveSermon wrote:How did Veyron end up at median? Blasphemy.


The world is conspiring against me!

FiveSermon
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby FiveSermon » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:10 pm

Veyron wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:How did Veyron end up at median? Blasphemy.


The world is conspiring against me!


You still cool broseph, but DF is cooler since he does nothing and gets above median.

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Veyron
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Veyron » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:59 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
Veyron wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:How did Veyron end up at median? Blasphemy.


The world is conspiring against me!


You still cool broseph, but DF is cooler since he does nothing and gets above median.


I wish I was that cool :(

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underachiever
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby underachiever » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:06 pm

pereira6 wrote:Cool, makes sense. How bout those median kids, particularly the straight-from-UG types? The ones who don't suck at life but don't have sexy WE, they doing alright?


For 1L I split a firm (connections) with a judge (resume/grades) and had about 8 other judge interviews lined up.


So I was median, straight out of a TTT UG. At OCI i did alright, and I got several V100 callback/offers in NYC (picked firm early), and am working at a V20 back home.

Personality/fit matters (after grades). But I would say work experience really helps, as does a nice undergrad (all the unemployed 2Ls i know, went to no names or state school UGs), and connections also help a ton (even if just to get a callback and impress). This goes for the middle 60%. Top 20% have V50 locked up and Bottom 20% better pray to any god they believe in, be willing to work anywhere and have something unique about them (past work exp, race, gender, age, a resume that blows you away).

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Veyron
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Veyron » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:28 pm

underachiever wrote:
pereira6 wrote:Cool, makes sense. How bout those median kids, particularly the straight-from-UG types? The ones who don't suck at life but don't have sexy WE, they doing alright?


For 1L I split a firm (connections) with a judge (resume/grades) and had about 8 other judge interviews lined up.


So I was median, straight out of a TTT UG. At OCI i did alright, and I got several V100 callback/offers in NYC (picked firm early), and am working at a V20 back home.

Personality/fit matters (after grades). But I would say work experience really helps, as does a nice undergrad (all the unemployed 2Ls i know, went to no names or state school UGs), and connections also help a ton (even if just to get a callback and impress). This goes for the middle 60%. Top 20% have V50 locked up and Bottom 20% better pray to any god they believe in, be willing to work anywhere and have something unique about them (past work exp, race, gender, age, a resume that blows you away).


This is interesting. Also a bit more optimistic than I thought, I had heard that below 3.2 = fukd. A few questions, feel free to PM me if you want or tell me none of my buisness.

a) What does median mean to you?
b) How many years of work experience do you need for it to matter?

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby Georgiana » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:23 pm

I can't add too much to the OCI/job discussion as a 3L who arguably had the worst year for OCI. I guess all I want to point out is that everyone's experience and perception is going to be different. The thing with our class is that we blame ourselves when we end up unemployed. Class of 2010 blamed the firms because they were no offered. We blamed ourselves because we weren't "good enough" to be hired in the first place. This lead to us being a lot more hush hush about who did and did not get jobs than prior classes (or current classes maybe?). I know several people in my class that are still unemployed and their qualifications vary greatly and I am well aware that there are others unemployed who just don't talk about it. The class of 2012 may be more open with their grades/results, but chances are that each person's "view" is based on who our close friends happen to be and what their results are. We aren't given some secret set of data that we can analyze, we just hear rumors :)

That said, I have to agree that fit makes a big difference in the OCI process and I have not found that undergrad school makes a difference for most firms (woot state school!).

Back to the question prompting all of this: Don't calculate your GPA at Penn, its just not allowed. You can do it for your own personal information, but firms know we don't do GPAs and they're used to eyeballing it based on what your transcript says. This means there's a little more leeway for us as far as figuring out where you fall in the class and you should focus on the parts of OCI you can improve (your resume and interviewing skills!).

pereira6
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby pereira6 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:26 pm

This is all making me a lot more nervous about throwing in my deposit tomorrow haha...I'm definitely coming, but man, can't blame a guy for feeling weird about this. It's not a huge shock (props to finding TLS to paint a real picture of the legal market), but still makes a few bells ring.

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:27 pm

So if you are at median, generally how many of your bids works out? I read the doc a little bit but it doesn't give stats.

What about the regional interviews? How well does it work?

r6_philly
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Re: Penn Students Taking Questions

Postby r6_philly » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:28 pm

pereira6 wrote:This is all making me a lot more nervous about throwing in my deposit tomorrow haha...I'm definitely coming, but man, can't blame a guy for feeling weird about this. It's not a huge shock (props to finding TLS to paint a real picture of the legal market), but still makes a few bells ring.


Everyone keeps telling me I will be fine, which actually makes me feel nervous.




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