Penn Students Taking Questions Forum

[r6_philly]

Wait--having a Mac is seriously a really bad idea?

My mac can run any PC program from the mac desktop, so no.

[Veyron]

How dumb would it be to work part time 1L year?

I have a great job with a company based in NY and DC. They want me to work part time, mainly doing mobile work during law school. I am intrigued b/c it is with very high ranking former government members, and I want to do government after law school. The money would be nice. The continued connections would be great. But I don't want to screw my grades over.

Only do it if you are SURE you don't want biglaw or any other job that looks at grades (including most good gvmt gigs).

I cannot emphasize how stupid it would be to work 1L year even if you could get away with it. I pulled 100 hr + weeks my first semester just between class and school work. Second semester is a bit better but. . .

TL/DR: DUMB, why its FUCKING IDIOTIC

[r6_philly]

How dumb would it be to work part time 1L year?

I have a great job with a company based in NY and DC. They want me to work part time, mainly doing mobile work during law school. I am intrigued b/c it is with very high ranking former government members, and I want to do government after law school. The money would be nice. The continued connections would be great. But I don't want to screw my grades over.

Only do it if you are SURE you don't want biglaw or any other job that looks at grades.

I cannot emphasize how stupid it would be to work 1L year even if you could get away with it. I pulled 100 hr + weeks my first semester just between class and school work. Second semester is a bit better but. . . don't be a FUCKING IDIOT you IDIOT (sorry to be so mean, its for your own good).

TL/DR: Don't be a FUCKING IDIOT

you are wrong, but whatever.

[Veyron]

How dumb would it be to work part time 1L year?

I have a great job with a company based in NY and DC. They want me to work part time, mainly doing mobile work during law school. I am intrigued b/c it is with very high ranking former government members, and I want to do government after law school. The money would be nice. The continued connections would be great. But I don't want to screw my grades over.

Only do it if you are SURE you don't want biglaw or any other job that looks at grades.

I cannot emphasize how stupid it would be to work 1L year even if you could get away with it. I pulled 100 hr + weeks my first semester just between class and school work. Second semester is a bit better but. . . don't be a FUCKING IDIOT you IDIOT (sorry to be so mean, its for your own good).

TL/DR: Don't be a FUCKING IDIOT

you are wrong, but whatever.

Says the 0L

Wait--having a Mac is seriously a really bad idea?

I mean, any firm that issues you a laptop is going to issue you a PC. You mac people may have some cool workaround but some firms just won't allow Macs to be used at all. Why not get used to it now?

[run26.2]

Couple of quick questions as I look forward to the fall:

1. Are macs compatible with exam software that Penn uses? And I imagine most, if not all, exams are taken on laptops?

This year, for the first time, yes. Still, the legal world runs on PCs (IBM platforms), save yourself some trouble when you start working and swtich now.

2. Are exams generally taken in a big room where everyone brings their laptops or can you take your exam at home? I'm wondering for something of a weird reason -- I have a laptop that isn't 100% dependable and don't want to invest in a new one for a few months, as I generally do most of my work on my desktop at home. I would bring both to law school, but if exams would have to be taken on a laptop, then I'd probably have to reconsider waiting on the laptop.

Some are in-class, some are takehome. Get the new laptop NOW, I cannot empasise this strongly enough. It is so much easier to start loading the software you need from day 1. Also, Lexis Nexis takes MAD processing power. Besides, do you really want to move your files in the middle of the semester.

I'd keep the old laptop as a backup.

True most offices will have PCs, but the important thing is the ability to use Word and/or WordPerfect. You can certainly use Word on a Mac and be perfectly comfortable at school - plenty of people do it. If you clerk and you have to use WordPerfect, you basically are just going to have to get used to it when you get there.

That said, I would familiarize myself with Windows-based operating systems, and Word on those systems, as you probably will be using those in the real world. I actually run a mac with a PC emulator (VMWare Fusion) because I like the office suite better on the PC side but I like the stability of OS X.

Also, what exactly are you talking about Lexis taking "mad processing power?" I'm assuming you are talking about Lexis for Microsoft Office. The Lexis or Westlaw services are obviously hosted remotely, and when used this way do not really consume excessive processing power.

[Georgiana]

How dumb would it be to work part time 1L year?

I have a great job with a company based in NY and DC. They want me to work part time, mainly doing mobile work during law school. I am intrigued b/c it is with very high ranking former government members, and I want to do government after law school. The money would be nice. The continued connections would be great. But I don't want to screw my grades over.

School won't let you.

This might be true (I honestly don't know but I know other schools do "outlaw" it) but I know someone in a similar situation who did work for his prior company during his 1L year (and throughout law school).

I glanced through the policies and didn't notice anything, but I'd look a little more in depth/ask someone.

[absolutazn87]

Wait--having a Mac is seriously a really bad idea?

No, macs are fine. I'm bringing my Macbook Air!

When I was sitting in on a class, most people had macs. The exam software is totally compatible.

[run26.2]

How dumb would it be to work part time 1L year?

I have a great job with a company based in NY and DC. They want me to work part time, mainly doing mobile work during law school. I am intrigued b/c it is with very high ranking former government members, and I want to do government after law school. The money would be nice. The continued connections would be great. But I don't want to screw my grades over.

Only do it if you are SURE you don't want biglaw or any other job that looks at grades.

I cannot emphasize how stupid it would be to work 1L year even if you could get away with it. I pulled 100 hr + weeks my first semester just between class and school work. Second semester is a bit better but. . . don't be a FUCKING IDIOT you IDIOT (sorry to be so mean, its for your own good).

TL/DR: Don't be a FUCKING IDIOT

you are wrong, but whatever.

Says the 0L

Wait--having a Mac is seriously a really bad idea?

I mean, any firm that issues you a laptop is going to issue you a PC. You mac people may have some cool workaround but some firms just won't allow Macs to be used at all. Why not get used to it now?

Dude, you need to leave some room for people that have other capabilities. R6 is pretty prolific. Some people have different bandwidths.

[r6_philly]

This might be true (I honestly don't know but I know other schools do "outlaw" it) but I know someone in a similar situation who did work for his prior company during his 1L year (and throughout law school).

I glanced through the policies and didn't notice anything, but I'd look a little more in depth/ask someone.

I asked already. Dean of student has to approve it. You would need a compelling reason and convince them it's worth it. Also if you are not expecting a whole lot of income, they try to steer you toward getting a secondary loan to replace the lost income.

[Georgiana]

This might be true (I honestly don't know but I know other schools do "outlaw" it) but I know someone in a similar situation who did work for his prior company during his 1L year (and throughout law school).

I glanced through the policies and didn't notice anything, but I'd look a little more in depth/ask someone.

I asked already. Dean of student has to approve it. You would need a compelling reason and convince them it's worth it. Also if you are not expecting a whole lot of income, they try to steer you toward getting a secondary loan to replace the lost income.

Honestly I don't see how they would know about it unless you told them... but maybe thats just me not caring what the law school says anymore

[r6_philly]

Says the 0L

Let's suppose you did work 100+ hours per week for school work. 100/7 = 14+ hours a day. You mean to say that you fit eating/crapping/showering/commuting/sleeping/resting into 9 hours per day for a whole year?????

Ok dude, I could be a 3 grader instead of 0L to be able to say you are wrong.

[r6_philly]

Honestly I don't see how they would know about it unless you told them... but maybe thats just me not caring what the law school says anymore

I like to respect rules lol

It would be interesting to explain my income when they get my tax forms the next year...

[run26.2]

Honestly I don't see how they would know about it unless you told them... but maybe thats just me not caring what the law school says anymore

I like to respect rules lol

It would be interesting to explain my income when they get my tax forms the next year...

I think your best bet is to work out an arrangement that gives you flexibility at the outset so you can determine how much time you are going to have. I would also think about letting your employer know up front when the exam season begins and inform them that you are probably going to need to either take that time off entirely or reduce your workload at that time. If the time comes and you don't think you need to do this, then you can keep on working. But if you find yourself needing the extra time to study, your employer will be on notice.

[r6_philly]

Dude, you need to leave some room for people that have other capabilities. R6 is pretty prolific. Some people have different bandwidths.

Thanks man, some people have a little more common sense. I have already done my research on working (quite a bit of research) and I am pretty sure I can do it with minimal downside. I am not taking the stance of advocating it, but to call people idiots for thinking about it is a bit much.

[Veyron]

Says the 0L

Let's suppose you did work 100+ hours per week for school work. 100/7 = 14+ hours a day. You mean to say that you fit eating/crapping/showering/commuting/sleeping/resting into 9 hours per day for a whole year?????

Ok dude, I could be a 3 grader instead of 0L to be able to say you are wrong.

Last 2-3 months of first semster, the answer is yes. Otherwise more like 80hrs/wk. It ammuses me greatly that you don't believe this.

Wake up at 8:30 - shower, get ready, walk to class
School from 9-midafternoon (different timesdepending on the day). Somewhere in here 15 min for lunch, rest of "luch" spent reading
Rest of day, go to library, read and outline. Order dinner in library or go to food court
Take shit, read cases on toilet
11:45, library closes.
12:15-3:00 read myself a bedtime story consisting of Torts cases

Weekends, wake up at 10 read and outline till 3:00am

rinse, repeat. You can see that even given my TLS posting, there is more than enough time in the day for 100 hr weeks.

Dude, you need to leave some room for people that have other capabilities. R6 is pretty prolific. Some people have different bandwidths.

For sure, but any energy you have left over SHOULD be saved for law school. Thats the work that it took me to crack median. If you are more prolific than I am, why not gun for top 10% instead of spending the extra effort working? The ROI is definitely higher.

True most offices will have PCs, but the important thing is the ability to use Word and/or WordPerfect. You can certainly use Word on a Mac and be perfectly comfortable at school - plenty of people do it. If you clerk and you have to use WordPerfect, you basically are just going to have to get used to it when you get there.

In theory, yes. In practice, many IT departments find Macs not to be secure enough to use. Whether this is true or not is irrelevant to you as a lowly associate.

[r6_philly]

I am fairly sure not everyone puts in so much time. So there is wiggle room for a job for those people. (since I know more than a handful of your classmates)

[Veyron]

I am fairly sure not everyone puts in so much time. So there is wiggle room for a job for those people. (since I know more than a handful of your classmates)

see above Normative judgment, not everyone does but everyone should. If you are more efficient than me, there is no excuse for not aiming for the top of the class.

Also, at least the people I know who did well worked almost as hard (and a lot more efficiently). Law students at Penn like to pretend that they don't work that hard so they look "naturally" smart but that's BS. You'll learn to see thru it.

The ones that really don't work that hard provide nice padding for my grades.

[run26.2]

Says the 0L

Let's suppose you did work 100+ hours per week for school work. 100/7 = 14+ hours a day. You mean to say that you fit eating/crapping/showering/commuting/sleeping/resting into 9 hours per day for a whole year?????

Ok dude, I could be a 3 grader instead of 0L to be able to say you are wrong.

Last 2-3 months of first semster, the answer is yes. Otherwise more like 80hrs/wk. It ammuses me greatly that you don't believe this.

Wake up at 8:30 - shower, get ready, walk to class
School from 9-midafternoon (different timesdepending on the day). Somewhere in here 15 min for lunch, rest of "luch" spent reading
Rest of day, go to library, read and outline. Order dinner in library or go to food court
Take shit, read cases on toilet
11:45, library closes.
12:15-3:00 read myself a bedtime story consisting of Torts cases

Weekends, wake up at 10 read and outline till 3:00am

rinse, repeat. You can see that even given my TLS posting, there is more than enough time in the day for 100 hr weeks.

Dude, you need to leave some room for people that have other capabilities. R6 is pretty prolific. Some people have different bandwidths.

For sure, but any energy you have left over SHOULD be saved for law school. Thats the work that it took me to crack median. If you are more prolific than I am, why not gun for top 10% instead of spending the extra effort working? The ROI is definitely higher.

True most offices will have PCs, but the important thing is the ability to use Word and/or WordPerfect. You can certainly use Word on a Mac and be perfectly comfortable at school - plenty of people do it. If you clerk and you have to use WordPerfect, you basically are just going to have to get used to it when you get there.

In theory, yes. In practice, many IT departments find Macs not to be secure enough to use. Whether this is true or not is irrelevant to you as a lowly associate.

2 things:
1) Maybe you're working too much - try taking more breaks (I did better 2nd semester of 1L year when I committed to getting 7+ hrs of sleep/night)

2) I was not implying that you would use a Mac at your workplace, merely that you could use it in law school while acquiring skills on the PC, which one could easily do by using the workstations around the school

So what were you saying about Lexis taking up all the processing power?

[Georgiana]

Honestly I don't see how they would know about it unless you told them... but maybe thats just me not caring what the law school says anymore

I like to respect rules lol

It would be interesting to explain my income when they get my tax forms the next year...

They never got tax forms after applications... you fill out the fafsa each year (which I don't think they scrutinize) but that's it.

But yes, following rules is good, usually.

But you will not be struck down by god/fail 1L if you work a little bit (they let you do pro bono work for goodness sake!)... my friend who worked does in fact have a job and didn't do poorly in 1L (and regularly skipped class as a 2L/3L). Just know whether you're the type of person who can do that or if you're the person who really needs to buckle down 24/7.

[Veyron]

So what were you saying about Lexis taking up all the processing power?

No idea, it just takes forever on my computer when I'm doing research and I have a really fast computer. Also, it makes everything else run slow. Maybe its that it takes up a ton of bandwith, not processing power but I sure runs faster on my new computer than on my old one.

1) Maybe you're working too much - try taking more breaks (I did better 2nd semester of 1L year when I committed to getting 7+ hrs of sleep/night)

Almost certainly true, but still, use the extra time for sleep, not work.

[tipler4213]

Couple of quick questions as I look forward to the fall:

1. Are macs compatible with exam software that Penn uses? And I imagine most, if not all, exams are taken on laptops?

This year, for the first time, yes. Still, the legal world runs on PCs (IBM platforms), save yourself some trouble when you start working and swtich now.

2. Are exams generally taken in a big room where everyone brings their laptops or can you take your exam at home? I'm wondering for something of a weird reason -- I have a laptop that isn't 100% dependable and don't want to invest in a new one for a few months, as I generally do most of my work on my desktop at home. I would bring both to law school, but if exams would have to be taken on a laptop, then I'd probably have to reconsider waiting on the laptop.

Some are in-class, some are takehome. Get the new laptop NOW, I cannot empasise this strongly enough. It is so much easier to start loading the software you need from day 1. Also, Lexis Nexis takes MAD processing power. Besides, do you really want to move your files in the middle of the semester.

I'd keep the old laptop as a backup.

True most offices will have PCs, but the important thing is the ability to use Word and/or WordPerfect. You can certainly use Word on a Mac and be perfectly comfortable at school - plenty of people do it. If you clerk and you have to use WordPerfect, you basically are just going to have to get used to it when you get there.

That said, I would familiarize myself with Windows-based operating systems, and Word on those systems, as you probably will be using those in the real world. I actually run a mac with a PC emulator (VMWare Fusion) because I like the office suite better on the PC side but I like the stability of OS X.

Also, what exactly are you talking about Lexis taking "mad processing power?" I'm assuming you are talking about Lexis for Microsoft Office. The Lexis or Westlaw services are obviously hosted remotely, and when used this way do not really consume excessive processing power.

Its not a matter of getting used to it--I just already have a relatively new macbook. I use Microsoft suite at work and actually have my Mac synced to use outlook, word, etc.

[run26.2]

So what were you saying about Lexis taking up all the processing power?

No idea, it just takes forever on my computer when I'm doing research and I have a really fast computer. Also, it makes everything else run slow. Maybe its that it takes up a ton of bandwith, not processing power but I sure runs faster on my new computer than on my old one.

Do you have a bunch of tabs open? Sometimes that causes slowdowns. Firefox can also be something of a memory hog. Are they both PCs?

[run26.2]

Couple of quick questions as I look forward to the fall:

1. Are macs compatible with exam software that Penn uses? And I imagine most, if not all, exams are taken on laptops?

This year, for the first time, yes. Still, the legal world runs on PCs (IBM platforms), save yourself some trouble when you start working and swtich now.

2. Are exams generally taken in a big room where everyone brings their laptops or can you take your exam at home? I'm wondering for something of a weird reason -- I have a laptop that isn't 100% dependable and don't want to invest in a new one for a few months, as I generally do most of my work on my desktop at home. I would bring both to law school, but if exams would have to be taken on a laptop, then I'd probably have to reconsider waiting on the laptop.

Some are in-class, some are takehome. Get the new laptop NOW, I cannot empasise this strongly enough. It is so much easier to start loading the software you need from day 1. Also, Lexis Nexis takes MAD processing power. Besides, do you really want to move your files in the middle of the semester.

I'd keep the old laptop as a backup.

True most offices will have PCs, but the important thing is the ability to use Word and/or WordPerfect. You can certainly use Word on a Mac and be perfectly comfortable at school - plenty of people do it. If you clerk and you have to use WordPerfect, you basically are just going to have to get used to it when you get there.

That said, I would familiarize myself with Windows-based operating systems, and Word on those systems, as you probably will be using those in the real world. I actually run a mac with a PC emulator (VMWare Fusion) because I like the office suite better on the PC side but I like the stability of OS X.

Also, what exactly are you talking about Lexis taking "mad processing power?" I'm assuming you are talking about Lexis for Microsoft Office. The Lexis or Westlaw services are obviously hosted remotely, and when used this way do not really consume excessive processing power.

Its not a matter of getting used to it--I just already have a relatively new macbook. I use Microsoft suite at work and actually have my Mac synced to use outlook, word, etc.

Then you should be all good!

[Georgiana]

Last 2-3 months of first semster, the answer is yes. Otherwise more like 80hrs/wk. It ammuses me greatly that you don't believe this.

Wake up at 8:30 - shower, get ready, walk to class
School from 9-midafternoon (different timesdepending on the day). Somewhere in here 15 min for lunch, rest of "luch" spent reading
Rest of day, go to library, read and outline. Order dinner in library or go to food court
Take shit, read cases on toilet
11:45, library closes.
12:15-3:00 read myself a bedtime story consisting of Torts cases

Weekends, wake up at 10 read and outline till 3:00am

rinse, repeat. You can see that even given my TLS posting, there is more than enough time in the day for 100 hr weeks.

My schedule is/was NEVER anything like this... EVER. EVER. (this may change once I'm working biglaw obv... but even over the summer I had more free time than this!)

That said I was *only* top third after 1L... I don't think I'd trade that schedule for being top 10% (especially knowing what I know now re: my job outcome). Maybe I'd do it to be #1... but you never know if you're #1 bc thats how Penn works

[r6_philly]

For sure, but any energy you have left over SHOULD be saved for law school. Thats the work that it took me to crack median. If you are more prolific than I am, why not gun for top 10% instead of spending the extra effort working? The ROI is definitely higher.

It will be after I spend the energy I have allotted for other things. Maybe I should stop spending time with my kids, or go to the doctors, or visiting family, or ... ?

Other people spend time on other priorities, and no one is trying to work a full-time job or anything. 2-3 hours per day should be able to be spared, especially if you are doing something you have been doing for a long time.