Golden Gate University School of Law

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
Dr.Ding007
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:28 am

GGU Law School - PLEASE ADVISE

Postby Dr.Ding007 » Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:55 am

I have been reading the posts about the problems, referred to as fraud by GGU on 90% of the student body, with the Law School program at GGU.

Well, I too have a friend who experienced similar problems, except her problems are with their school of taxation.

Basically, she has borrowed thousands of dollars to attend this school and has completed 8 out of 10 course.

It so happens that she experienced some medical problems during one semester while attending two on-line courses. Because it was past the drop deadline when these medical problems occurred, she could not drop the courses and receive a refund. She contacted the school officials and they explained for her to file a financial petition. She also talked her problems over with the instructors and they agreed to give her an incomplete for the semester (which is required by the financial petition for the committee to give a full credit or allow the student to repeat the course). However the instructors never put the I (Incomplete) in to the grading system when the financial committee heard her petition; which the school administration knew all the facts of her situation. Ultimately, the financial committee did not grant a credit for the course. When she learned of the financial committees decision, she contacted the school and they explained she needed to work out her issues with the professors of her classes. When she discussed the issues with her professors, her professors agreed to allow her to take the final exam. This was certainly a last hope effort rather than losing $6,000 and having to repeat those courses. Another problem she had was that she did not have any of the notes from the class since the class was over and she missed ten weeks of a six week semester. She took the final exam and received a C and D grade which brought her GPA below a 3.0.

Now she was placed on academic probation because of her GPA being below 3.0. Because she did not have the funds to only take one class she took two classes to qualify for financial aid. During this semester she repeated one of the failed course and took an additional class. The repeated class she received a B (which was an improvement from a D) and in the other course she had an A- until the profession (who the following semester had his course had his course closed down by the school administration) gave a weird final and she ultimately received a C-.

The academic board again sent her a noticed that they were going to meet and discuss her progress. During this meeting they disqualified her from the program. Her position was that she could still bring her GPA above a 3.00 to qualify her to graduate, but the school refused to give her one last opportunity to take those classes. Her options are to: 1. wait one year and reapply to the program. 2. Find another school and hope to transfer her courses (limited option without having to take a substantial part of the program over require a substantial time and dollar investment). 3. File a lawsuit because the school did not give her a fair chance to get credit because of her medical problems and because the professor who had their course discontinued by the school administration knew that students were experiencing problems with this instructor's teaching, examination, and grading process.

When a student has no further options with the school administration, what outside options are there to a student?

Also, any suggestions that are helpful are greatly appreciated.

Any other student know of a student this has happen to?

Send you comments to Dr.Ding007@yahoo.com

rangerbob
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:03 pm

Postby rangerbob » Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:36 am

After reading these posts, I don't think I will apply to this school as a safety school anymore.

McGeorge06
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:55 pm

Postby McGeorge06 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:18 am

Again, I would like to reiterate my sincere respect for both the faculty and the student body of GGU. It is unfortunate that the entry-level legal market is so glutted that second-tier grads graduating out of the top 10-15% and without family connections to facilitate employment have to fight very, very hard for mere survival.

sami
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:08 am

GGU Law School

Postby sami » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:21 am

I go to GGU School of Law and am very happy with my decision. It is absolutely bogus that 90% of the people are unable to find jobs. It is also ridiculous to say the reason people go to GGU is because they were not accepted elsewhere. I was accepted to 2 "top 100" schools but decided to attend GGU because of their fantastic environmental and international law programs. I can not help feeling that the people who talk the most garbage about GGU are the ones that were kicked out. If you aren't doing well you should be kicked out because why waste more money if you do not grasp the information. Another thing, to say that GGU doesn't give students support is a complete lie. Support is there but you have to be willing to accept it ALSO you have to ask for it the administration is not supposed to babysit. If you needed help you should have looked for it.

Voyager
Posts: 639
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 2:52 pm

Postby Voyager » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:27 pm

I was accepted to 2 "top 100"


wow

sami
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:08 am

Golden Gate University School of Law

Postby sami » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:28 am

Wow...Right back at you. I only applied to three schools.

Voyager
Posts: 639
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 2:52 pm

Postby Voyager » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:46 am

Wow...Right back at you. I only applied to three schools.


you got in everywhere you applied to include 2 "top 100" schools? impressive.

fnm
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:44 pm

Postby fnm » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:01 pm

I only applied to three schools.


So I guess on law school admissions forums when people gave you the smart-ass "you'll get in everywhere you apply" answer, you could snap back with "Yes, yes I will!"

tranandy
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:16 pm

Postby tranandy » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:36 pm

GGU is an absolute dump of a law school. You can just tell that from available stats. It places grads so poorly that it doesn't even have a reported number for grads who have jobs lined up at graduation. For 2006, only 68% of grads had jobs after 9 months. Too bad student loans come knocking after 6 months. On top of that, I'm guessing that the 68% reported number only includes the number of grads who actually passed the bar and therefore eligible to become a lawyer. When you include persons who don't even pass the bar, probably less than half the graduating class has a job 9 months after graduation.

For those thinking about law school, take the advice of all the posters here and don't even consider GGU. It's a blatant scam.

ConfusedLawStudent
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:39 am

=(

Postby ConfusedLawStudent » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:42 am

I go to GGU. It is only my second semester. I am an honors student, have a legal research paper that was published, and because of the crappy curve I am in danger of being kicked out as well. It's absurd. And after I've paid 40,000 or so. I'm in shock. What can we do about this problem???

ConfusedLawStudent
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:39 am

GGU

Postby ConfusedLawStudent » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:44 am

GGU is so bad and kicks out so many students. The way they have destroyed GPAS is heart breaking. My chances of transferring into a good law school are probably shot, I'm so desperate right now not to end up kicked out that I am considering transferring to a non ABA school just so I can guarantee my degree. =(

windsofchange
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:33 pm

Confused, you should transfer out of GGU today

Postby windsofchange » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:51 am

The grade curve is rigged to fail the bottom 1/3 of the class. GGU is not required to disclose this fact to incoming students. -- GGU will not admit this either.

The Department of Education, Office of Civil Rights should require schools like GGU to disclose this fact in their application forms. Getting a law degree is now a major financial investment. On the average, a GGU student will spent $250.000 for their law degree.

As to your dilemma, here are your options.

Option 1 - Toughen it out, hope you do better in your next exams. Keep in mind though, that if you get placed on probation, no school will admit you. Worse yet, if you get disqualified from GGU, your law school aspiration is pretty much over. Then, the student loan collectors will start knocking on your door.

Option 2 - Transfer now, before you get on probation. GGU's accreditation status is on probation. So, they are no better than non ABA schools. ABA accreditation is only important if you intend to practice in other parts of the country. If you only plan to practice in California, it doesn't matter.

Finally, you will not get any support from the GGU staff. They are trained to protect themselves and cover their behinds. They don't reallly care about the student. Worse, they will literally harass you and tell you to drop out because not everyone can be a lawyer.

It is too bad that people like you keep on coming through the door to become yet another victim.

The Department of Education should really do something with GGU to protect the students and the public.

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nous défions
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:02 pm

Postby nous défions » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:39 am

I'm not a big fan of GGU, but it is BLATANTLY obvious that "ConfusedLawStudent" was just created by one of the GGU bashers in order to reinforce his/her point through subterfuge. Nice try....

ConfusedLawStudent
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:39 am

whatever

Postby ConfusedLawStudent » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:11 am

I am now a second year law student and my position has not changed and is valid despite what the last opinionated poster thinks.

windsofchange
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Students Beware

Postby windsofchange » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:16 pm

Golden Gate University Law School is a business who unfortunately squandered the good will it has built over the years. As a business it sees its one and only mission -- to remain an accredited ABA law school at all costs to keep its tuition fee rates high. The non-ABA accredited school charges approximately $300 per unit. GGU Law School charges $1,030 per unit.

There is no qualitative difference between the fate of the GGU Law graduates versus the non-ABA graduates. at least in San Francisco.

Prospective students must protect themselves. Do your research. Don't get fooled or you will end up a) a GGU graduate who passed the bar but can't find a job (and only a few pass the bar...maybe 45 students of an incoming class of 250 students. b) graduated by GGU but cannot pass the bar c) admitted by GGU but flunked out, with a loan of $50,000 to $100,000, will not be admitted by any other law school but stuck with student loan collectors knocking on your door d) given up with the constant discouragement by its incompetent management and staff who are bitter because they have law degrees and passed the bar but are not lawyers.

Don't get me wrong. Some students at GGU Law succeed...maybe 5% of an incoming class, if that much.

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T-Bird
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:41 pm

Re: Golden Gate University School of Law

Postby T-Bird » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:51 pm

This school sounds like a nightmare! I was going to apply knowing full well that I would transfer out, but not after everything I have read here. I am scheduled to take the Feb LSATS and I am a bit worried that my score will not be good enough for San Francisco School of Law. I think I would rather wait and take the LSATS in June then to get accepted to GGU and try to transfer out.

karmalinium
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:50 pm

Re: Golden Gate University School of Law

Postby karmalinium » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:19 pm

i have to say, everything i've heard about this school makes it sound like a nightmare.

everything that is except the relatively positive profile of GGU featured on this very website:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/goldenga ... chool.html

anyone (admin or otherwise) care to comment on this discrepancy?

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kevsocko
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:18 am

Re: Golden Gate University School of Law

Postby kevsocko » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:45 pm

likely because ken doesn't want to appear biased against ANY school, and wants to encourage people to apply to law schools anyways, because more potential law students = more traffic on TLS

AVSexton
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:49 pm

Re: Golden Gate University School of Law

Postby AVSexton » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:39 am

Businesses are not required, and never do, disclose any more information than absolutely necesary.

Buyer beware. You want to be a lawyer? You had better be intelligent enough to do your research about what school you plan to attend. I had been making the same error when I first began considering law schools, and even when the fee waivers starting coming in, I wasted a lot of time sending out applications to schools that are terrible.

The scholarships for said relativly terrible schools started coming in. Fortunatly, through talking to practicing lawyers and doing my own research, I had figured out that those schools were, in fact, terrible; and not worth the scholarships they were offering me.

It is not the responsibility of a "school" such as Golden Gate to represent itself in a negative light, as long as the light is accurate. Accurate does not mean extensive. Does Microsoft advertise all of the problems with it's operating systems on the box?

Is this a more unfortunate situation? Absolutely- I think the 110k in debt I've calculated for Madison is really tough, and Madison isn't a horrible school. Even if I end up graduating as the last person in the class, I'll be able to find *some* job. $200k+ in debt for a grad from one of these horrible schools, which tend to be located in more expensive parts of the country to live as it is, is a disgusting and sad prospect.

This is compounded by the fact that many people who go to these Low T3/T4 schools have fairly large amounts of debt from their undergrad.

None of this changes the fact that the prospective student of GGU is responsible for their own research. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to go to law school.

karmalinium
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:50 pm

Re: Golden Gate University School of Law

Postby karmalinium » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:18 pm

AVSexton wrote:Businesses are not required, and never do, disclose any more information than absolutely necesary.

Buyer beware. You want to be a lawyer? You had better be intelligent enough to do your research about what school you plan to attend. I had been making the same error when I first began considering law schools, and even when the fee waivers starting coming in, I wasted a lot of time sending out applications to schools that are terrible.

The scholarships for said relativly terrible schools started coming in. Fortunatly, through talking to practicing lawyers and doing my own research, I had figured out that those schools were, in fact, terrible; and not worth the scholarships they were offering me.

It is not the responsibility of a "school" such as Golden Gate to represent itself in a negative light, as long as the light is accurate. Accurate does not mean extensive. Does Microsoft advertise all of the problems with it's operating systems on the box?

Is this a more unfortunate situation? Absolutely- I think the 110k in debt I've calculated for Madison is really tough, and Madison isn't a horrible school. Even if I end up graduating as the last person in the class, I'll be able to find *some* job. $200k+ in debt for a grad from one of these horrible schools, which tend to be located in more expensive parts of the country to live as it is, is a disgusting and sad prospect.

This is compounded by the fact that many people who go to these Low T3/T4 schools have fairly large amounts of debt from their undergrad.

None of this changes the fact that the prospective student of GGU is responsible for their own research. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to go to law school.


i agree with what you are saying, but i think you misunderstood my point. the link i posted is not a product of GGU's marketing dept, but supposedly a neutral profile written for and posted on this site. i'm not saying necessarily that TLS should post negative profiles of certain schools (although you have to admit, this would probably be helpful). rather, i would hope they would at least consider taking the profile down or editing it substantially, so that future students are not misled into thinking GGU is "a great option for applicants looking for a small school in a big city".

craigsol
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:55 pm

Re: Golden Gate University School of Law

Postby craigsol » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:36 pm

Well it is in a large city....It is a small school....And it seems that according to some the atmosphere is great.....The profile doesnt say anything about getting jobs once you are done

app1234
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:49 am

Re: Golden Gate University School of Law

Postby app1234 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:57 pm

Hi all

new to this site.
I am very concerned about what I am hearing on this thread! I was very selective in choosing where I applied (wanted to be in SF) and (apparently) naive in the fact that I was ok w/ ending up at GGU.

i also figured that i'd bust my butt my first year and try to transfer but worst case scenario, i was ok w/ graduating from GGU.

should i be intensely concerned? are there other threads w/ current students that can give some advice? anything, please help!

thanks!

JT0808
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:39 pm

Re: Golden Gate University School of Law

Postby JT0808 » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:10 am

Since I don't want to go through and type all the stuff I just posted on the OTHER GGU thread, I'll just post a link to it:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27492&p=571490#p571490

Basically, GGU is NO LONGER on ABA probation, because they got their bar passage rate up from 44% (2005) to 68% (2007). Most sites, including this one, just have 2 year old statistics posted as if they are recent ones. Check out the link for more info, I'm tired of typing! :D

windsofchange
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Golden Gate University School of Law

Postby windsofchange » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:36 pm

If GGU only passed 2 students out of an incoming class of 250 and both students passed the bar, GGU's passage rage will be 100%...The magic of statistics... :roll:

"You can fool some people some of the time, but you cannot fool all people, all the time."

Students, do your research! Buyer beware!

JT0808
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:39 pm

Re: Golden Gate University School of Law

Postby JT0808 » Mon May 26, 2008 1:50 am

Just FYI, 117 out of 171 first-time bar exam takers at GGU passed in July 2007. 68% is not great, but it's better than the 54% (107 out of 199) at Whittier, the 56% (50 out of 90) at Thomas Jefferson, and even a little better than Southwestern at 64% (147 out of 230). I realize these are all low tier schools, but still. I'm just trying to present some facts that may indicate that GGU is on a hopefully steady climb upwards. And to show that more than "2 students out of 2" passed the bar at GGU.




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