Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

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linquest
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Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby linquest » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:37 am

I'll take questions when I'm on break from studying for the bar.

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rayiner
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby rayiner » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:56 am

Oh wow. RC fail.
Last edited by rayiner on Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

articulably suspect
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby articulably suspect » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:10 am

First off congrats and good luck on the bar. I'm planning on taking the LSAT in September and am considering Boston area schools: BC, BU, and Northeastern (most feasible). My questions are as follows:

(1) Why did you pick Northeastern and what other schools were you considering?

(2) I'm interested in public interest, in reality, if one follows the loan repayment plan's rules to a t, is it really a significant amount of one's debt that gets paid?

(3) What are your job prospects like (ie $, locations, job types, etc?

(4) Did you like Northeastern's academic philosophy (ie no grades, externships, etc)?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

linquest
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Response to ejjones

Postby linquest » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:42 am

1) I picked NUSL because of co-op (I learn best by doing, not by sitting in class), no grades, commitment to public interest, and a strong alumni base in my specialty. I turned down St. Johns, St. Louis, and $ at lower schools.

2) At this point, most students will only need to take out federal loans, so I imagine that the amount can be significant. I haven't done the math yet, so I can't say for sure. I'm definitely hoping to take advantage of the CCRA myself though.

3) Are you talking about me specifically (I have my post-grad job lined up) or for NUSL students in general?

4) I loved the academic philosophy at NUSL, but it has changed slightly since I've been there (i.e. the new "Honors" designation for upper-year courses). The course evaluations system gives you substantive feedback whereas letter/number grades do not. It especially helps those students who might not have ended up in the Top X% at a traditional school. I think that having co-op evaluations as part of my formal transcript made a huge difference because they're a reflection of ability to do real legal work over an extended period of time and are written by practicing attorneys.
BTW -"Externships" are typically part-time internships while you're in classes, so that term does not apply to the co-op system.

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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby OperaSoprano » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:49 am

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articulably suspect
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby articulably suspect » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:46 am

I guess I was referring to job prospects in general. Also, are you from the North East area? If not how was the transition to Boston?

How is your schools reputation perceived by employers/law students/lawyers in the NE region and elsewhere?

I'm from CA and want PI. I'm considering, depending on my LSAT, venturing east. I imagine that my shot at work right out of ls would be grim in CA. Assuming this is the case, do you know any recent grads that were able to head west after a couple of years?

linquest
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby linquest » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:44 pm

I'm assuming you can find the "official" job statistics on your own. Anecdotally, it seems that NUSL grads have pretty wide job prospects as far as practice setting and location. Obviously, we have a lot of PI people everywhere at all levels of government and at non-profits. We have a solid percentage of people who get clerkships, mostly in the NE/mid-Atlantic, but also in WV, FL, TX, PR, AK, HI (looking at a list of 2003-2007 placement). From what I've seen of people going into firms, most grads tend to gravitate to small firms and boutiques, primarily doing some kind of civil litigation. The hardest jobs for us to get are the "BigLaw" jobs outside of Boston (though I do know people who have gotten those jobs in SanFran and NYC) because of our evaluation system, but most NUSL students aren't interested in going that route anyway. We probably have a wider geographic range than most schools in the T2 because of the co-op system.

As far as job prospects right now...hard to say because of the economy, and even more difficult to predict 4 years from now when you'd be graduating. I think this economy has hit NUSL disproportionately because of our PI focus--a lot of state/local governments are in hiring freezes and many non-profits have had their funding cut. The fact that BigLaw "deferred associates" are taking up PI jobs is also not helping.

We actually have a good alumni base on the West Coast, enough to have alumni chapters in San Fran, LA and Seattle. A lot of students are from there as well. Some of my friends got jobs on the West Coast right out of law school (off the top of my head: fed gov't in San Fran, public defender in Seattle, and in-house at an entertainment company in LA).
I'm originally from the West Coast myself, but was living in the Mid-Atlantic before law school, so that might have made my transition to Boston easier, but I can't say that I've really had any problems adjusting to the city itself...you'll mostly be stuck at school anyway.

articulably suspect
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby articulably suspect » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:16 pm

I have looked at the job statistics, but I also like to talk to the students too. Sometimes they paint a different picture than the stats.

I wasn't aware that Northeastern has a strong alumni base in the west. So I guess it wouldn't be quite the long shot I thought it would be to get a job in CA after graduation-good to know.

Just out of curiosity, what is your post-grad job?

articulably suspect
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby articulably suspect » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:19 pm

One more thing, why does the co-op system give Northeastern more mobility than similarly ranked schools? Is it simply the practical training/experience? Also, since there aren't any grades, thus no class rank, how do employers decide on who gets what jobs (ie biglaw, clerkships, and the generally more competitive positions)?

linquest
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby linquest » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:05 pm

ejjones wrote:One more thing, why does the co-op system give Northeastern more mobility than similarly ranked schools? Is it simply the practical training/experience? Also, since there aren't any grades, thus no class rank, how do employers decide on who gets what jobs (ie biglaw, clerkships, and the generally more competitive positions)?


The co-op system gives you more opportunities to work/network in other areas. At traditional schools, your two summers are your primary opportunities. With four co-ops, you can experience up to four totally different regions or do all/most of your co-ops in an area that you really want to work in post-grad. One of the biggest obstacles to getting a job outside of a school's region is that potential employers often want some proof of commitment to their location so they have some assurance that you'll stay, so the co-op system helps you show that.

Many employers like the co-op system because we're available full-time outside of the typical summer internship season. Since we're pretty much the only school in the country that does this, that helps to open up a lot of opportunities outside of the Northeast. For example, the last firm I co-oped at always hires interns from a particular local school (incidentally, a certain Midwest school that rejected me ;) They also typically keep those interns part-time throughout the school year. However, they were always short on hand over the winter because of finals and vacation. I was able to network into the job because I was available full-time for that duration, among other qualifications. That firm now plans to hire a NUSL student each winter.

The co-op system also gives you more opportunities to build "soft skills" that help with post-grad mobility. First, we simply have a lot more experience applying and interviewing for legal jobs than most students at traditional schools. Second, people who take full advantage of the co-op system are encouraged to "create their own co-ops" rather than relying on "participating employers." This helps you build networking and marketing skills, especially if you target organizations that may have never even heard of the school.

There are 3 typical ways that Biglaw/clerkship employers look at NUSL applicants. Some will try to "translate" our evaluations into some kind of alpha/numerical grading system; more details on that process here- viewtopic.php?f=4&t=51959&p=1208400&hilit=+nusl+evaluations+translate#p1208400
Others will take a more "holistic" approach at applications--after all, the evaluations give you actual substantive information about the student's performance. What does a B+ or 3.0 actually tell you or a potential employer? For BigLaw jobs, pretty much the only way you're going to get that right after graduation (as opposed to lateralling in) is if you co-oped with them during school.
Note: NUSL has a new "Honors/High Pass" designation for upper year classes (this system was implemented after my class), and I don't know how students will be affected by that.

I'm going to be an "Honors Program Attorney" for one of the federal agencies, don't want to say more than that so I can preserve some anonymity on the Net.

articulably suspect
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby articulably suspect » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:37 pm

Thanks again for all your responses, you've been very helpful. Sorry if I'm asking too many qiestions, this is my first time posting on here and I recently discovered NUSL, which has left me with a lot of questions.

The co-op approach seems like a great way to receive a legal education. I'm surprised more schools don't use it. Seems like it could give lower ranked schools a leg up over similar/higher ranked T2's, but what do I know.

So essentially you're only studying law in class for two years?

I am basically 85% sure I want to do PI/Govt when I graduate. Since my gpa is at 3.32, I'll need to score in the high 160s to get into a school that will either give me a shot at Biglaw/money at a lesser school, so the odds are that I'll end up with the standard $100,000 ls debt. My biggest concern is the debt and relatively low salary for PI/Govt, eventhough I know some schools have decent LRAP. I've heard that CUNY Queens is really good for PI and extremely cheap. I can't find any info on TLS about this school-have you heard anything?

linquest
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby linquest » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:42 pm

ejjones wrote:So essentially you're only studying law in class for two years?


Not sure what you mean by that. You have classes for all 3 years. After 1L, our academic terms are condensed into quarters rather than semesters so you can fit the four co-ops in. The total amount of instruction time is pretty close to what's covered in a typical semester at other schools though.

I'll PM you about CUNY Queens, so we don't derail the thread.

articulably suspect
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby articulably suspect » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:06 pm

I should've been more specific. Since the last two years are divided into quarters and half of your time in those last two years is in the classroom, wouldn't that be the equivalent of one year of class? Maybe I'm wrong. How long is each quarter? Also, is it pretty easy to create your own coop?

linquest
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby linquest » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:29 pm

Class time-this is from the NUSL website:
Because the academic quarters for upper-level classes are shorter than the semesters at other law schools, is less material covered?
No. Northeastern’s courses cover about the same amount of material as courses at other schools. Though the law school’s upper-level quarters are eleven weeks and semesters are usually fourteen or fifteen weeks, most semester schools run fifty-minute hours, but Northeastern uses sixty. Sixty-minute classes meeting three times a week for eleven weeks provide 1980 minutes of classroom time. Fifty-minute classes meeting three time a week for fourteen weeks provide 2100 minutes of classroom time. That is a difference of only about two hours. Northeastern's compressed schedule eliminates much of the "hello and goodbye" portions of the semester. Professors rarely have leisurely introductions to courses, nor is there much time for in-class review. The pace certainly feels faster, though actual time in class differences tend to be small.


Creating your own co-op-- how easy or difficult it is depends on a ton of factors. I created two--one was really easy because of a contact that I had and the fact that I was free labor to them. The other was difficult because I first had to network in an area that NUSL does not have much of a presence in. That took months of cold-calling and rejections, and then I had to convince them to create a funded position for me. I believe both organizations have since joined the NUSL co-op program as participating employers though.

articulably suspect
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby articulably suspect » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:53 pm

So it sounds like you have the same amount of hours as the semester system but in a much smaller window. My undergrad used the quarter system, so I guess I was thinking in terms of their system, which, if alternating quarters would be half the time in class. They include the summer as a quarter so I don't know if NUSL does that.

Do you find it difficult to switch from the coop to the classroom and visa versa.

linquest
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby linquest » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:40 am

Basically, our program runs year-round 2L/3L: you'll alternate 11 week class or co-op quarters with a week or two on either end for break, which isn't much of a break if you're co-oping outside of Boston and have to pack, travel, and unpack your things (if you're a packrat like me) plus do some reading assignments required for your first day of classes (not all profs demand that, but many do). It can be difficult to switch back and forth, not to mention that you'll usually spend a significant amount of time during academic quarters searching for and applying to your next co-op. I spend most of my academic quarters wishing I was back out on co-op, but I've always preferred "learning by doing" over the classroom more than most people --that's why I chose NUSL!

articulably suspect
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby articulably suspect » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:58 am

I enjoy and learn more by doing too, which is why NUSL looks like a good prospect, assuming I even get in.

When did you 3rd year end? Assuming, like it is in CA, that the bar is in late July wherever you're taking it, how much time does that leave you to study?

One more thing, I have pretty good softs: 2+ years in a DA's office (Criminal Investigation/Child Abduction Unit) and actually did much more than grunt work (ie obtaining/discovering evidence, serving subpoenas, contacting witnesses etc.), County Chapter ACLU (Intern/Volunteer) worked primarily on same-sex marriage/abortion props, and will be volunteering as a Court Appoited Special Advocate for children in the foster system. With a 3.32, how much of an edge would all this give me, depending on my LSAT obviously, in getting accepted/public inerest scolarship (if I score 160ish)? I know you can't predict this, but just wanted to know what you've heard over the years.

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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby linquest » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:19 am

We ended by mid-May and had graduation about the same time as other schools. You should get around two months to study for the bar exam--I'm pretty sure every state's bar exam is the last week of July.

My GPA wasn't anywhere near yours, I did not break 160, and got in. NUSL Admissions is VERY good about taking your application as a whole, not just your numbers. As long as you're in the upper 150's and make sure to tailor your application to the school, you've got a good shot at being accepted. The public interest scholarship, if you're talking about the full-ride one, is extremely competitive and also requires a separate application. A lot of students already have significant PI experience coming into NUSL (naturally), so it's hard to say how the softs stack up. It's definitely worth trying for though considering that they don't really give out any other scholarships over $10K.

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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby HWS08 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:28 pm

I am probably going to apply to the Boston area schools (minus Harvard, I'm not into kidding myself) because I want to be in or near Boston. I am not really interested in PI, although I could see myself applying for the US Attorneys office or to go work at the FTC or something along those lines. At this point I am much more interested in BigLaw. I have a 3.36 UG GPA and am hoping to break 165 on the LSAT, maybe even get above 170. Given my career interests, if I can get into BU or BC would it be a bad decision to go to NUSL (because I don't really want to do PI), or still a good choice? I am kind of intrigued by the co-op system but a bit turned off by the lack of grades because I'm worried law firms may not give a grade-less resume much consideration. Any feedback is appreciated, thanks!

linquest
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby linquest » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:04 pm

USAO/FTC and other government are considered PI. However, if you have any preference for BigLaw and get into a Tier 1 school like BU/BC, I would definitely go there instead of NUSL. I forgot where I last saw the employment stats, but the numbers for BigLaw hiring between the 3 schools speak for themselves.

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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby AlanShore » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:35 pm

linquest wrote:
ejjones wrote:One more thing, why does the co-op system give Northeastern more mobility than similarly ranked schools? Is it simply the practical training/experience? Also, since there aren't any grades, thus no class rank, how do employers decide on who gets what jobs (ie biglaw, clerkships, and the generally more competitive positions)?


The co-op system gives you more opportunities to work/network in other areas. At traditional schools, your two summers are your primary opportunities. With four co-ops, you can experience up to four totally different regions or do all/most of your co-ops in an area that you really want to work in post-grad. One of the biggest obstacles to getting a job outside of a school's region is that potential employers often want some proof of commitment to their location so they have some assurance that you'll stay, so the co-op system helps you show that.

Many employers like the co-op system because we're available full-time outside of the typical summer internship season. Since we're pretty much the only school in the country that does this, that helps to open up a lot of opportunities outside of the Northeast. For example, the last firm I co-oped at always hires interns from a particular local school (incidentally, a certain Midwest school that rejected me ;) They also typically keep those interns part-time throughout the school year. However, they were always short on hand over the winter because of finals and vacation. I was able to network into the job because I was available full-time for that duration, among other qualifications. That firm now plans to hire a NUSL student each winter.

The co-op system also gives you more opportunities to build "soft skills" that help with post-grad mobility. First, we simply have a lot more experience applying and interviewing for legal jobs than most students at traditional schools. Second, people who take full advantage of the co-op system are encouraged to "create their own co-ops" rather than relying on "participating employers." This helps you build networking and marketing skills, especially if you target organizations that may have never even heard of the school.

There are 3 typical ways that Biglaw/clerkship employers look at NUSL applicants. Some will try to "translate" our evaluations into some kind of alpha/numerical grading system; more details on that process here- viewtopic.php?f=4&t=51959&p=1208400&hilit=+nusl+evaluations+translate#p1208400
Others will take a more "holistic" approach at applications--after all, the evaluations give you actual substantive information about the student's performance. What does a B+ or 3.0 actually tell you or a potential employer? For BigLaw jobs, pretty much the only way you're going to get that right after graduation (as opposed to lateralling in) is if you co-oped with them during school.
Note: NUSL has a new "Honors/High Pass" designation for upper year classes (this system was implemented after my class), and I don't know how students will be affected by that.

I'm going to be an "Honors Program Attorney" for one of the federal agencies, don't want to say more than that so I can preserve some anonymity on the Net.

hey linquest,

i was just browsing some northeastern threads and saw your posts. I would like to do biglaw, if possible, after graduation. Do a good number of big law firms participate in the co-op? Also, how are co-ops determined, specifically with medium and big law firms? Is it a bidding system like with summer jobs at other schools? Thanks.

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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby champ33 » Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:21 pm

AlanShore wrote:
linquest wrote:
ejjones wrote:One more thing, why does the co-op system give Northeastern more mobility than similarly ranked schools? Is it simply the practical training/experience? Also, since there aren't any grades, thus no class rank, how do employers decide on who gets what jobs (ie biglaw, clerkships, and the generally more competitive positions)?


The co-op system gives you more opportunities to work/network in other areas. At traditional schools, your two summers are your primary opportunities. With four co-ops, you can experience up to four totally different regions or do all/most of your co-ops in an area that you really want to work in post-grad. One of the biggest obstacles to getting a job outside of a school's region is that potential employers often want some proof of commitment to their location so they have some assurance that you'll stay, so the co-op system helps you show that.

Many employers like the co-op system because we're available full-time outside of the typical summer internship season. Since we're pretty much the only school in the country that does this, that helps to open up a lot of opportunities outside of the Northeast. For example, the last firm I co-oped at always hires interns from a particular local school (incidentally, a certain Midwest school that rejected me ;) They also typically keep those interns part-time throughout the school year. However, they were always short on hand over the winter because of finals and vacation. I was able to network into the job because I was available full-time for that duration, among other qualifications. That firm now plans to hire a NUSL student each winter.

The co-op system also gives you more opportunities to build "soft skills" that help with post-grad mobility. First, we simply have a lot more experience applying and interviewing for legal jobs than most students at traditional schools. Second, people who take full advantage of the co-op system are encouraged to "create their own co-ops" rather than relying on "participating employers." This helps you build networking and marketing skills, especially if you target organizations that may have never even heard of the school.

There are 3 typical ways that Biglaw/clerkship employers look at NUSL applicants. Some will try to "translate" our evaluations into some kind of alpha/numerical grading system; more details on that process here- viewtopic.php?f=4&t=51959&p=1208400&hilit=+nusl+evaluations+translate#p1208400
Others will take a more "holistic" approach at applications--after all, the evaluations give you actual substantive information about the student's performance. What does a B+ or 3.0 actually tell you or a potential employer? For BigLaw jobs, pretty much the only way you're going to get that right after graduation (as opposed to lateralling in) is if you co-oped with them during school.
Note: NUSL has a new "Honors/High Pass" designation for upper year classes (this system was implemented after my class), and I don't know how students will be affected by that.

I'm going to be an "Honors Program Attorney" for one of the federal agencies, don't want to say more than that so I can preserve some anonymity on the Net.

hey linquest,

i was just browsing some northeastern threads and saw your posts. I would like to do biglaw, if possible, after graduation. Do a good number of big law firms participate in the co-op? Also, how are co-ops determined, specifically with medium and big law firms? Is it a bidding system like with summer jobs at other schools? Thanks.


+1

linquest
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby linquest » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:09 pm

As an alumnus, I don't have access to the roster of co-op employers anymore. I was never interested in the medium/biglaw firms, so didn't pay attention to those options when I was there. You might call the NUSL Co-op Office or Admissions re: the number of firms.

I don't think we had a bidding system when I was there. AFAIK, NUSL doesn't have a different process for firms vs. other types of participating co-op employers. When you're applying to participating employers (that is, employers that are pre-approved by the school for co-op credit), here's the process: you're limited to 10 or 12 employers total in the first round of applications through the NUSL Co-op Office. The Employer reviews the applications that they've been forwarded and tells the school who they're interested in interviewing. The school posts that list online, and then it's up to you to call the employer within 24 hours to schedule or reject the interview. There are usually two additional rounds of applications for those students who don't have a co-op yet. If a new employer joins the program after the first round, the Co-op Office will either add them as an option to the next round of applications, or they will post the job with a special deadline.

MPeterson
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby MPeterson » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:45 am

Hey Linquest,

Thanks for taking questions. I have a few questions about the co-ops. On the NUSL Web site, it says that the co-ops can earn more than $1,500 a week or something like that, yet you say yours weren't paid. How common is it to get paid on these co-ops, in your experience?

Also, how is the school with scholarships? I'm probably going to have a 170+ LSAT and a 3.9 GPA. Do I stand a good chance of getting some money?

linquest
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Re: Northeastern Law Grad Taking ?s

Postby linquest » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:22 pm

MPeterson- not sure where you got that from. Three of mine were paid and NUSL gave me a public interest grant for the unpaid one. Most students will have at least two paid co-ops. Each employer is free to decide how much to pay or not to pay at all, so compensation can range anywhere from a couple hundred dollars a week as a stipend, to minimum wage to $30 per hour, to $500 to $3,000+ per week for firms.

How frequently you get paid co-ops also depends a lot on the type of employers you're applying to. Judicial clerkships are unpaid, as are the majority of government co-ops. Non-profits, naturally, tend to be either unpaid or paid poorly. Firms and corporations almost always pay. NUSL has a couple grant programs to help students with unpaid, public interest co-ops (non-profit or government) and federal work-study is sometimes an option too.

NUSL has a small endowment, so it isn't great about scholarships, though you'd probably get 1 for those numbers. The scholarships seem to max out around $10K, with the exception of the 4 full-ride Public Interest Law Scholars.




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