FLorida Coastal

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texaslawyer
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FLorida Coastal

Postby texaslawyer » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:49 am

This school from what I hear has an extremely high passage rate on the Florida bar from what I've heard. Also, I hear that most graduates find employment within nine months. I've vistied there and sat in on a class and liked what I saw. I don't know that BIG LAW really recruits there heavily. Any opinions ?

1337Law
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby 1337Law » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:50 am

texaslawyer wrote:This school from what I hear has an extremely high passage rate on the Florida bar from what I've heard. Also, I hear that most graduates find employment within nine months. I've vistied there and sat in on a class and liked what I saw. I don't know that BIG LAW really recruits there heavily. Any opinions ?


it's one of the worst law schools in the nation, it isn't worth a cent, much less a minute of your time, big law will NEVER happen from florida coastal, EVER. sure you probly find employment after you get your worthless florida coastal j.d., but as a walmart cashier

faraway
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby faraway » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:06 am


texaslawyer
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby texaslawyer » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:12 am

1337law and faraway, thank's for the heads up. I wasn't aware of that. They have a good name here in the Jacksonville area, but I'm not sure anywhere else. I've heard they do give out full rides and then yank them back just as suddenly.

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ame05d
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby ame05d » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:10 am

I was browsing on lawschoolnumbers.com and am a little confused... Florida Coastal's first time bar passage rate is 82%, but UF's is only 78% and FSU is 77%. Miami & others ALL have lower numbers. If it is so bad, what is w/ the extremely high passage rate? They're all taking the same bar, UF grads should not be 4% lower than the "worst school in the nation" or whatever.

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Cara
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby Cara » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:36 am

I'm sure this is flame (or you work there) because I don't know how it could have escaped your attention that it's one of the lowest ranked and most poorly regarded LS in the entire country.

Not sure if biglaw recruits heavily there? That's like saying I am not sure if the WNBA recruits heavily from my Monday night social basketball league.

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unfgolfer14
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby unfgolfer14 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:37 am

ame05d wrote:I was browsing on lawschoolnumbers.com and am a little confused... Florida Coastal's first time bar passage rate is 82%, but UF's is only 78% and FSU is 77%. Miami & others ALL have lower numbers. If it is so bad, what is w/ the extremely high passage rate? They're all taking the same bar, UF grads should not be 4% lower than the "worst school in the nation" or whatever.


First off I am 99% sure that FSU has had the highest bar passage rate in the state for the past 5 administrations. As someone who lives in Jacksonville, I think the whole Florida Coastal Bar passage rate is just a rumor that got out of hand.

Second...here is why, at one point, they may have had such a high bar passage rate:

Florida Coastal gives scholarships to almost everyone, then makes conditions to retain them at the end of the first year. They also grade on an EXTREME CURVE. Whereas (almost) all law schools grade on a curve system (Correct me if I am wrong but Yale does pass/fail right), this doesn't mean that there is going to be a set amount of people who fail. FCSL, though, fails X% of the class after the first year, and makes other peoples GPA so low that they lose their scholarship and A) Drop out, B) Transfer to a state school (Such as FIU/FAU) or 3) Take on an ENORMOUS amount of debt. So between people dropping out, transferring, and failing out, the school is left with the "cream of the Florida Coastal Crop". These would be the brightest people who go there or the people with a ton of debt, therefore the chances of them passing the bar skyrockets...

It's actually really shady if you ask me.

Also think about it this way:

If a school gives an entire entering class a full ride for all three years, conditional on the fact that you have to be in the top third after the end of each year, that means at the end of the first year, 2/3rd of the class will lose their scholarship and be paying full price.

One other thing: If I am not mistaken, isn't Florida Coastal owned by the same company that owns Cooley?

My advice...If you are determined to go to a school like Coastal, pass the offer and just go to FIU - at least you'll get instate tuition after a year.

davosdank
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby davosdank » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:35 am

unfgolfer14 wrote:
ame05d wrote:I was browsing on lawschoolnumbers.com and am a little confused... Florida Coastal's first time bar passage rate is 82%, but UF's is only 78% and FSU is 77%. Miami & others ALL have lower numbers. If it is so bad, what is w/ the extremely high passage rate? They're all taking the same bar, UF grads should not be 4% lower than the "worst school in the nation" or whatever.


First off I am 99% sure that FSU has had the highest bar passage rate in the state for the past 5 administrations. As someone who lives in Jacksonville, I think the whole Florida Coastal Bar passage rate is just a rumor that got out of hand.

Second...here is why, at one point, they may have had such a high bar passage rate:

Florida Coastal gives scholarships to almost everyone, then makes conditions to retain them at the end of the first year. They also grade on an EXTREME CURVE. Whereas (almost) all law schools grade on a curve system (Correct me if I am wrong but Yale does pass/fail right), this doesn't mean that there is going to be a set amount of people who fail. FCSL, though, fails X% of the class after the first year, and makes other peoples GPA so low that they lose their scholarship and A) Drop out, B) Transfer to a state school (Such as FIU/FAU) or 3) Take on an ENORMOUS amount of debt. So between people dropping out, transferring, and failing out, the school is left with the "cream of the Florida Coastal Crop". These would be the brightest people who go there or the people with a ton of debt, therefore the chances of them passing the bar skyrockets...

It's actually really shady if you ask me.

Also think about it this way:

If a school gives an entire entering class a full ride for all three years, conditional on the fact that you have to be in the top third after the end of each year, that means at the end of the first year, 2/3rd of the class will lose their scholarship and be paying full price.

One other thing: If I am not mistaken, isn't Florida Coastal owned by the same company that owns Cooley?

My advice...If you are determined to go to a school like Coastal, pass the offer and just go to FIU - at least you'll get instate tuition after a year.


i'm sorry but that's still a bad idea, in FL, if you are to attend an in state school you pretty much have to go to: UF, UMiami, FSU....i'll say for tampa, stetson is OK, but ITE it's probably a terrible idea (private tuition + regional prospects limited by the economy)

other than that, out of state is where it's at... retake, do not go to famu, barry, fiu, and espicially- Florida Coastal, they are terrible

texaslawyer
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby texaslawyer » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:33 am

Thanks for the heads up. If what has been said here is true, then that is shady and I probably need to go to Florida or FSU. I also wasn't aware that they were one of the obnly for profit law schools in the country. I've been told that they admit about 500 students per year, but many don't stay.

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jeisner
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby jeisner » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:39 am

Fla. Coastal: top 40% = teh biglawz

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unfgolfer14
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby unfgolfer14 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:53 am

texaslawyer wrote:Thanks for the heads up. If what has been said here is true, then that is shady and I probably need to go to Florida or FSU. I also wasn't aware that they were one of the obnly for profit law schools in the country. I've been told that they admit about 500 students per year, but many don't stay.


I actually think they admitted 550 in the first year class last fall...A couple of my friends are looking there.

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Lily
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby Lily » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:56 am

Here's official information from LSAC on Florida Coastal. The data is reported and verified by the dean of the school, so I imagine it would be accurate; otherwise, the school could risk losing accredidation. This is a link directly to a pdf, FYI.

http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchResults/SchoolPage_PDFs/ABA_LawSchoolData/ABA5320.pdf

It only shows bar passage through Winter 2007. It shows a 75% passage rate in summer of 2006 and 70% passage rate in the winter of 2007.

Go here to search other schools:
http://officialguide.lsac.org/

ufmba03
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby ufmba03 » Sat May 23, 2009 10:39 pm

unfgolfer14 wrote:Florida Coastal gives scholarships to almost everyone, then makes conditions to retain them at the end of the first year. They also grade on an EXTREME CURVE. Whereas (almost) all law schools grade on a curve system (Correct me if I am wrong but Yale does pass/fail right), this doesn't mean that there is going to be a set amount of people who fail. FCSL, though, fails X% of the class after the first year, and makes other peoples GPA so low that they lose their scholarship and A) Drop out, B) Transfer to a state school (Such as FIU/FAU) or 3) Take on an ENORMOUS amount of debt. So between people dropping out, transferring, and failing out, the school is left with the "cream of the Florida Coastal Crop". These would be the brightest people who go there or the people with a ton of debt, therefore the chances of them passing the bar skyrockets...

Also think about it this way:

If a school gives an entire entering class a full ride for all three years, conditional on the fact that you have to be in the top third after the end of each year, that means at the end of the first year, 2/3rd of the class will lose their scholarship and be paying full price.


I guess I'm a bit confused. By the above argument, this means the "brightest people" left at FCSL who take the Bar are better than those taking it from higher ranked state schools?

Now, I do agree that FCSL's method of essentially "weeding" students out AFTER admitting them is questionable, I just don't really get the rest of the argument as a way of minimizing their Bar passage rates.

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blackacre
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby blackacre » Sun May 31, 2009 12:22 pm

I'm wondering how the for-profit law school work? I mean if it was run as a business you would think they are very invested in seeing their graduates do well. I'm sure the professors would also be much more scrutinized than those at a traditional school. I'm not really making a statement one way or the other but the fact that it is in the business of making money, it would be reasonable to think they are turning out graduates that are competent and prepared for practice.

oh and that website is laughable. I guarantee there are students at all schools that can say relay some kind of similar story. I dont see those experiences as unique to FCSL.

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Cleareyes
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby Cleareyes » Sun May 31, 2009 12:26 pm

blackacre wrote:I'm wondering how the for-profit law school work? I mean if it was run as a business you would think they are very invested in seeing their graduates do well. I'm sure the professors would also be much more scrutinized than those at a traditional school. I'm not really making a statement one way or the other but the fact that it is in the business of making money, it would be reasonable to think they are turning out graduates that are competent and prepared for practice.

oh and that website is laughable. I guarantee there are students at all schools that can say relay some kind of similar story. I dont see those experiences as unique to FCSL.


As a business they are very invested in seeing their students pay tuition. That's about it. Traditional schools have more interest in their graduates doing well because those schools rely on alumni donations to help fund their programs. Traditional schools also have less reason to cut corners (because whatever "profit" they make just goes back into the endowment)

I have no idea why being for profit would imply anything about their graduates. That's like saying that because a company is for profit it makes good products. Well yes, making good products is one way to make a profit. Another is to make crappy products and sell them dirt cheap.

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blackacre
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby blackacre » Sun May 31, 2009 1:07 pm

Cleareyes wrote:
blackacre wrote:I'm wondering how the for-profit law school work? I mean if it was run as a business you would think they are very invested in seeing their graduates do well. I'm sure the professors would also be much more scrutinized than those at a traditional school. I'm not really making a statement one way or the other but the fact that it is in the business of making money, it would be reasonable to think they are turning out graduates that are competent and prepared for practice.

oh and that website is laughable. I guarantee there are students at all schools that can say relay some kind of similar story. I dont see those experiences as unique to FCSL.


As a business they are very invested in seeing their students pay tuition. That's about it. Traditional schools have more interest in their graduates doing well because those schools rely on alumni donations to help fund their programs. Traditional schools also have less reason to cut corners (because whatever "profit" they make just goes back into the endowment)

I have no idea why being for profit would imply anything about their graduates. That's like saying that because a company is for profit it makes good products. Well yes, making good products is one way to make a profit. Another is to make crappy products and sell them dirt cheap.


How long do you think a company is going to last with poor products? Seriously, I can't see a law school staying around for long if their graduates don't perform well. What kind of sucessful business are you familiar with that doesn't provide quality products?

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Cleareyes
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby Cleareyes » Sun May 31, 2009 1:14 pm

blackacre wrote:How long do you think a company is going to last with poor products? Seriously, I can't see a law school staying around for long if their graduates don't perform well. What kind of sucessful business are you familiar with that doesn't provide quality products?


There are lots of companies that make a lot of money selling crappy products cheaply. McDonalds comes to mind. People eat there for the prices, not the cuisine. There are many other examples in various industries. You know those cheap generic crappy products in 99 cent stores? Someone's making a profit producing them.

Florida Coastal isn't cheap financially, but substitutes that by having extremely low barriers for entry. If everyone could go to Yale they would, but they can't so they go where they can. Florida Coastal is a place where most people can go.

This wouldn't really be a problem if the cost of attendance were lower.

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blackacre
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby blackacre » Sun May 31, 2009 1:30 pm

Cleareyes wrote:
blackacre wrote:How long do you think a company is going to last with poor products? Seriously, I can't see a law school staying around for long if their graduates don't perform well. What kind of sucessful business are you familiar with that doesn't provide quality products?


There are lots of companies that make a lot of money selling crappy products cheaply. McDonalds comes to mind. People eat there for the prices, not the cuisine. There are many other examples in various industries. You know those cheap generic crappy products in 99 cent stores? Someone's making a profit producing them.

Florida Coastal isn't cheap financially, but substitutes that by having extremely low barriers for entry. If everyone could go to Yale they would, but they can't so they go where they can. Florida Coastal is a place where most people can go.

This wouldn't really be a problem if the cost of attendance were lower.


Touche :D

But I really don't see how the law differs all that much depending on where you go. The law is pretty much a trade. Just like air conditioning repair, it's the same everywhere. Obviously that is somewhat oversimplifying it but again I think the reason the school has such a good bar passage rate is it wouldn't last if that weren't the case. The school is brand spanking new so it doesnt have clout or a reputation so it has to go off of results. Other schools are able to secure funds from many sources that for-profit schools don't have access to so I just think they have an increased interest in ensuring the success of their students.

I mean a school like Texas Southern will forever be sh%t with horrible bar passage. Yet, they will continue to receive funds via alum and state legislatures. I for-profit school could not last or achieve it's goal or "profit" in that type of situation while there is no chance Texas Southern will ever shut down.

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Cleareyes
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby Cleareyes » Sun May 31, 2009 1:39 pm

blackacre wrote:
Touche :D

But I really don't see how the law differs all that much depending on where you go. The law is pretty much a trade. Just like air conditioning repair, it's the same everywhere. Obviously that is somewhat oversimplifying it but again I think the reason the school has such a good bar passage rate is it wouldn't last if that weren't the case. The school is brand spanking new so it doesnt have clout or a reputation so it has to go off of results. Other schools are able to secure funds from many sources that for-profit schools don't have access to so I just think they have an increased interest in ensuring the success of their students.

I mean a school like Texas Southern will forever be sh%t with horrible bar passage. Yet, they will continue to receive funds via alum and state legislatures. I for-profit school could not last or achieve it's goal or "profit" in that type of situation while there is no chance Texas Southern will ever shut down.


The law may be the same, but the jobs are not. The truth is that students coming out of Florida Coastal may pass the bar but they will have trouble finding jobs that will allow them to comfortably pay back the huge debt they incur. Now if they were charging less, people wouldn't have as much of a problem with them. But look at what they charge vs what Harvard charges.

You may think a Kia is a fine car. But would you pay half the price of a Ferrari to buy one?

That's not even getting into the fact that they flunk so many students out after the first year and other issues. Their bar passage rate is so high because they FOCUS on passing the Florida bar. Most schools don't even deal with bar passage during the 3 years. You take a bar prep class at the end of law school for whatever state you want to practice in. This in school focus on bar passage can inflate their results, but it doesn't make the students more attractive to employers.

Will a Florida Coastal degree and subsequent Florida bar passage enable you to practice law in the state of Florida and take the bar in any state in the United States? Yes it will. It is a J.D. from an ABA accredited school. But the legal profession doesn't really work like that. Being a solo practitioner is HARD in terms of drumming up business, and most firms won't look at someone with a Florida Coastal degree. Most desirable government positions won't either. Those are the hard facts.

Now add in the massive debt.

And there's the problem.

In terms of it being for profit...that only matters if you think students will be educated as to the actual value of a Florida Coastal degree. I don't think they will. They can continue churning out unsuccessful graduates and how will anyone find out?

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ame05d
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby ame05d » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:01 am

ufmba03 wrote:
unfgolfer14 wrote:Florida Coastal gives scholarships to almost everyone, then makes conditions to retain them at the end of the first year. They also grade on an EXTREME CURVE. Whereas (almost) all law schools grade on a curve system (Correct me if I am wrong but Yale does pass/fail right), this doesn't mean that there is going to be a set amount of people who fail. FCSL, though, fails X% of the class after the first year, and makes other peoples GPA so low that they lose their scholarship and A) Drop out, B) Transfer to a state school (Such as FIU/FAU) or 3) Take on an ENORMOUS amount of debt. So between people dropping out, transferring, and failing out, the school is left with the "cream of the Florida Coastal Crop". These would be the brightest people who go there or the people with a ton of debt, therefore the chances of them passing the bar skyrockets...

Also think about it this way:

If a school gives an entire entering class a full ride for all three years, conditional on the fact that you have to be in the top third after the end of each year, that means at the end of the first year, 2/3rd of the class will lose their scholarship and be paying full price.


I guess I'm a bit confused. By the above argument, this means the "brightest people" left at FCSL who take the Bar are better than those taking it from higher ranked state schools?

Now, I do agree that FCSL's method of essentially "weeding" students out AFTER admitting them is questionable, I just don't really get the rest of the argument as a way of minimizing their Bar passage rates.



the idea is not that the "brightest people" left at florida coastal are better or smarter than students from other schools in the state. what he/she is saying above is that schools such as FSU or UF who do not flunk out such a large number of their students won't ONLY have the cream of the crop graduates taking the bar. They will also have the slackers that skated by, the people at the bottom of the class, or people who maybe took the bar exam too lightly and didn't spend much time studying, etc. BUT, students coming out of fcsl with $100k+ in debt who managed to not flunk out will most likely do everything humanly possible to pass it. Additionally, as mentioned by cleareyes I believe, higher ranked schools in FL will focus on teaching the law and preparing their students for practicing in the fields they choose to while florida coastal focuses on teaching the bar and preparing their students for passing the bar. In this way, fcsl graduates may have high passage rates, but this is not a true indicator of the quality of the school.

scoop
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby scoop » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:33 pm

As an employer I could care less what law school a student came from unless they are from an IVY league school. After a year of experience no one will ever ask again what law school you came from. FCSL is a new school and well respected school in north east Florida. They do not prep their students to pass the bar. They have one class that third year students can take to enhance their bar essay writing and then are given bar coaches the 10 weeks before the bar exam. They care about their students and do want them to pass the bar, as all schools should. They beat Harvard many times in Moot Court. I am not an advocate for the school, but to me a degree is a degree.

Question, does you undergrad degree really make a difference where you got it from? Didn't think so. Good Luck to all future law school students and bar takers.

Scurredsitless1
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby Scurredsitless1 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:49 pm

--LinkRemoved--


She is, in fact, a Florida Coastal success story, who just got a "biglaw" job offer. Certainly the exception, far from the rule.

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kn6542
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby kn6542 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:00 pm

scoop wrote:
Question, does you undergrad degree really make a difference where you got it from?


What is this even meant to say? Holy fuck.

Isn't Florida Coastal the school that will admit you and give you a full ride, so long as you check your spam folder?

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trialjunky
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby trialjunky » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:50 am

I have a friend who goes there and he states it's so cut throat. The horror stories you hear about law school - the practices that most schools have eliminated still thrive at FCSL.

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SAOJD10
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Re: FLorida Coastal

Postby SAOJD10 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:58 am

Why does this thread keep popping up? I know numerous people going to FCSL (I'm from Jacksonville) and they all say how awesome it is........lies nothing but lies




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