Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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hkm6315
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby hkm6315 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:48 am

As a 3L, myself and the rest of my class (and the class above me) have come to terms with the fact that you DO NOT LIVE OR DIE BY OCI!!! What I mean is, you cannot put all of your eggs in the basket of 5 OCI firms that pay 160+ and then just sit back and just assume that you will land one of those. I actually know of a few people who were in the top 10% and did this assuming they would get jobs, and they didn't. Then they were up a creek without a paddle because firms were already done with their interviewing processes, and these people had just not cast their net wide enough. You have to spread a wider net than a few firms, or even every firm at OCI. Yeah, do OCI. Maybe you will be one of the handful of people who get a job from that. Great. But I know WAY more people that got good paying jobs at small to mid sized firms by sending out 50+ applications on their own. The market is TERRIBLE right now so it is really necessary to spread your net wider. With this economy, 100K+ jobs will probably not just fall into your lap through OCI, no matter where you go to school. See: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... rad%20Jobs

Look, I am not trying to be Debbie Downer here, but the truth is that big law firms cut have cut back their summer associates big time all across the country. But there are still great paying jobs available in firms of different sizes, and the big law firms still have a few slots available (see above article). I know that our class and the class above us got the brunt of the terrible economy, so hopefully things will be better by the time you guys are doing OCI in a few years. But while being in the top 10%-33% used to be a sure ticket into a big firm job, it is not anymore (again, this is not Illinois specific but going on right now at all law schools). One way to avoid huge OCI dissapointment is to use resources that the law school will inform you about, and websites like Martindale-Hubbell to look up every firm in the area you could potentially be interested in and apply on your own. Again, I know a TON of people that got good jobs this way. While top 10%, top 1/3, law review, moot court, etc. used to carry people and essentially guarantee big law jobs, that is not the case in the current economy. I know several people with fantastic personalities and interviewing skills that had all of these credentials and did not land big law OCI jobs. I also know several people who did land big law jobs through OCI (ie: Chattel Cat), but while these credentials will definitely increase your big law chances, they do not guarantee you a big law job like they might of in the past. The sinking economy has forced many of these big law firms to cut their summer associate program all together or shrink it to a fraction of the size it once was. Again, I cannot see two years into the future, and I do not know if the economy will mirror its current state. But I can say that it DOES NOT HURT TO SPREAD A WIDE NET!!! Also, people in the top 10%, 33% and even 50% of our class who do not find a job through OCI, do end up finding jobs (and not a Chuck E. Cheese). I think people have realized at the end of the day that the hysteria and pressure that surrounds OCI is not really worth it. You can get a big law job from OCI, but that is not the "be all end all." There are other avenues for finding great jobs, and with this economy you have to explore them.

I did interview at OCI, and I also did several interviews with small to mid sized firms. I stopped pursuing it at a certain point because I realized that I was pursuing something I didn't really want to do and it didn't make sense for me. I worked for a judge in a domestic violence court last summer, and realized that that I was kidding myself going into interviews telling the person I was interviewing with "how interested I am in insurance defense, mergers and acquisitions, bankruptcy, etc." Some people love that stuff, but it is just not me. I am an anthropology major who actually did come to law school to "save the world," and I feel like I can at least save a small part of it in domestic violence. So I am working in the domestic violence special victim's unit at the prosecutor's office in Indianapolis. I LOVE IT. I speak with victims every day, and I actually did a bench trial in front of a judge yesterday that resulted in a guilty verdict for a domestic violence felony strangulation case. I am not trying to sound like an after school special here, but seriously... :D

Do OCI. Send out applications to every firm in the country you could potentially be interested (off Martindale Hubbell). Spread your net as wide as you can, and interview at as many firms as you can. It can only help you. Don't have nervous breakdowns and panic attacks every time you get a rejection letter. Just think of it as great practice and sharpening of your interviewing skills. You will not end up working at Chuck E. Cheese, and your legal career/life is not over if you don't get a job through OCI. At the end of the day, do not forget who you are or why you are going to law school. If you are not an after school special and you are going to law school purely to make bank, then the same advice still applies: spread your net as wide as possible and give yourself the best chance of getting a highly paid job... But seriously, how many big law summer associates are conducting felony trials already? :P I am going to jump off my soap box now. I have been meaning to respond to this thread for a while and just now got around to it. I just wanted to be straight up with people. :) It will all work out in the end.
Last edited by hkm6315 on Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Luis Gomez
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby Luis Gomez » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:17 pm

hkm6315 I am impressed with both the length and the content of your comment. Good luck saving the world and congrats on finding your "thing" and a position to start building your career.

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Tenth Usher
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby Tenth Usher » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:41 pm

Luis Gomez wrote:hkm6315 I am impressed with both the length and the content of your comment. Good luck saving the world and congrats on finding your "thing" and a position to start building your career.


+1

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Tenth Usher
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby Tenth Usher » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:44 pm

Change of topic, but how widely attended are the home football games by law students? Do law students go as a group (or groups)? Tailgating?

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby Kilpatrick » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:20 pm

hkm6315 thank you so much for that post. Tremendously helpful and informative. I think the school should pay you for all the work you've done in this thread!

3dkit
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby 3dkit » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:23 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:hkm6315 thank you so much for that post. Tremendously helpful and informative. I think the school should pay you for all the work you've done in this thread!


they probably do.

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Tenth Usher
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby Tenth Usher » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:36 pm

3dkit wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:hkm6315 thank you so much for that post. Tremendously helpful and informative. I think the school should pay you for all the work you've done in this thread!


they probably do.


Nice use of your first and only post

3dkit
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby 3dkit » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:38 pm

Tenth Usher wrote:
3dkit wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:hkm6315 thank you so much for that post. Tremendously helpful and informative. I think the school should pay you for all the work you've done in this thread!


they probably do.


Nice use of your first and only post


well it's not like i registered just to post that. and that it's my first doesn't change the truth of the statement.

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Tenth Usher
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby Tenth Usher » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:54 pm

3dkit wrote:
Tenth Usher wrote:
3dkit wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:hkm6315 thank you so much for that post. Tremendously helpful and informative. I think the school should pay you for all the work you've done in this thread!


they probably do.


Nice use of your first and only post


well it's not like i registered just to post that. and that it's my first doesn't change the truth of the statement.


what truth? so far you've only made one speculative suggestion, and even if it is true it doesn't necessarily negate the value of this thread

i'm not sure what you're going for here, and you're absence to this point only fuels my skepticism that this is genuine

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webbylu87
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby webbylu87 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:16 pm

Can any current students offer advice on when is the best possible time to buy used books? I've been looking on amazon and other sites but I'm wondering when books are usually cheapest to buy used.

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TrackTony88
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby TrackTony88 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:09 am

If you are heading to champaign, you must go to the most amazing mexican restaurant known to man called "Dos Reales"

You will not be disappointed.

$5.50 for 60 oz pitcher of Dos XX
$15 for 60 oz pitcher of margaritas

best food ever.

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ChattelCat
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby ChattelCat » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:19 am

webbylu87 wrote:Can any current students offer advice on when is the best possible time to buy used books? I've been looking on amazon and other sites but I'm wondering when books are usually cheapest to buy used.


If you're looking at half.com and amazon you probably should buy them over the next week or so if you want books in really good shape. Closer to when classes start the books that are in decent shape for a decent price are in short supply. I've had good luck about 2-3 weeks before each semester buying used books online with little to no markings for about half price. The best deals will probably be from current students - 2L's and 3L's already some have books listed on the law school online message boards (the Law School Forums) - not sure if you have access to those yet though.

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MBZags
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby MBZags » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:46 pm

A question about the ARC: I went to a small UG so I'm not really used to a packed gym. During the afternoons, the place was a ghost town. I doubt the ARC is ever a ghost town, but what are usually the least busiest times?

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Thirteen
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby Thirteen » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:01 pm

TrackTony88 wrote:If you are heading to champaign, you must go to the most amazing mexican restaurant known to man called "Dos Reales"

You will not be disappointed.

$5.50 for 60 oz pitcher of Dos XX
$15 for 60 oz pitcher of margaritas

best food ever.


+1000

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ChattelCat
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby ChattelCat » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:21 pm

MBZags wrote:A question about the ARC: I went to a small UG so I'm not really used to a packed gym. During the afternoons, the place was a ghost town. I doubt the ARC is ever a ghost town, but what are usually the least busiest times?


I've had good luck in the afternoon. It seems like around 5pm it starts to get busy and continues to get more crowded the later it gets. I've been told that it is pretty deserted in the mornings (have never experienced this for myself though :)).

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MBZags
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby MBZags » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:47 pm

ChattelCat wrote:
MBZags wrote:A question about the ARC: I went to a small UG so I'm not really used to a packed gym. During the afternoons, the place was a ghost town. I doubt the ARC is ever a ghost town, but what are usually the least busiest times?


I've had good luck in the afternoon. It seems like around 5pm it starts to get busy and continues to get more crowded the later it gets. I've been told that it is pretty deserted in the mornings (have never experienced this for myself though :)).


Thanks! Yeah, morning workouts just do not agree with me.

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Grad_Student
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby Grad_Student » Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:02 pm

hkm6315 wrote:As a 3L, myself and the rest of my class (and the class above me) have come to terms with the fact that you DO NOT LIVE OR DIE BY OCI!!! What I mean is, you cannot put all of your eggs in the basket of 5 OCI firms that pay 160+ and then just sit back and just assume that you will land one of those. I actually know of a few people who were in the top 10% and did this assuming they would get jobs, and they didn't. Then they were up a creek without a paddle because firms were already done with their interviewing processes and these people had just not cast their net wide enough. You have to spread a wider net than a few firms, or even every firm at OCI. Yeah, do OCI. Maybe you will be one of the handful of people who get a job from that. Great. But I know WAY more people that got good paying jobs at small to mid sized firms by sending out 50+ applications on their own. The market is TERRIBLE right now so it is really necessary to spread your net wider. With this economy, 100K+ jobs will probably not just fall into your lap through OCI, no matter where you go to school. See: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... rad%20Jobs

Look, I am not trying to be Debbie Downer here, but the truth is that big law firms cut have cut back their summer associates big time all across the country. But there are still great paying jobs available in firms of different sizes, and the big law firms still have a few slots available (see above article). I know that our class and the class above us got the brunt of the terrible economy, so hopefully things will be better by the time you guys are doing OCI in a few years. But while being in the top 10%-33% used to be a sure ticket into a big firm job, it is not anymore (again, this is not Illinois specific but going on right now at all law schools). One way to avoid huge OCI dissapointment is to use resources that the law school will inform you about, and websites like Martindale-Hubbell to look up every firm in the area you could potentially be interested in and apply on your own. Again, I know a TON of people that got good jobs this way. While top 10%, top 1/3, law review, moot court, etc. used to carry people and essentially guarantee big law jobs, that is not the case in the current economy. I know several people with fantastic personalities and interviewing skills that had all of these credentials and did not land big law OCI jobs. I also know several people who did land big law jobs through OCI (ie: Chattel Cat), but while these credentials will definitely increase your big law chances, they do not guarantee you a big law job like they might of in the past. The sinking economy has forced many of these big law firms to cut their summer associate program all together or shrink it to a fraction of the size it once was. Again, I cannot see two years into the future and I do not know if the economy will mirror its current state. But I can say that it DOES NOT HURT TO SPREAD A WIDE NET!!! Also, people in the top 10%, 33% and even 50% of our class who do not find a job through OCI, do end up finding jobs (and not a Chuck E. Cheese). I think people have realized at the end of the day that the hysteria and pressure that surrounds OCI is not really worth it. You can get a big law job from OCI, but that is not the "be all end all." There are other avenues for finding great jobs, and with this economy you have to explore them.

I did interview at OCI, and I also did several interviews with small to mid sized firms. I stopped pursuing it at a certain point because I realized that I was pursuing something I didn't really want to do and it didn't make sense for me. I worked for a judge in a domestic violence court last summer, and realized that that I was kidding myself going into interviews telling the person I was interviewing with "how interested I am in insurance defense, mergers and acquisitions, bankruptcy, etc." Some people love that stuff, but it is just not me. I am an anthropology major who actually did come to law school to "save the world," and I feel like I can at least save a small part of it in domestic violence. So I am working in the domestic violence special victim's unit at the prosecutor's office in Indianapolis. I LOVE IT. I speak with victims every day, and I actually did a bench trial in front of a judge yesterday that resulted in a guilty verdict for a domestic violence felony strangulation case. I am not trying to sound like an after school special here, but seriously... :D

Do OCI. Send out applications to every firm in the country you could potentially be interested (off Martindale Hubbell). Spread your net as wide as you can and interview at as many firms as you can. It can only help you. Don't have nervous breakdowns and panic attacks every time you get a rejection letter. Just think of it as great practice and sharpening of your interviewing skills. You will not end up working at Chuck E. Cheese, and your legal career/life is not over if you don't get a job through OCI. At the end of the day, do not forget who you are or why you are going to law school. If you are not an after school special and you are going to law school purely to make bank, then the same advice still applies: spread your net as wide as possible and give yourself the best chance of getting a highly paid job... But seriously, how many big law summer associates are conducting felony trials already? :P I am going to jump off my soap box now. I have been meaning to respond to this thread for a while and just now got around to it. I just wanted to be straight up with people. :) It will all work out in the end.

HK wrote the book!

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Luis Gomez
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby Luis Gomez » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:36 pm

If any 2L or anyone else wants to sell any of their book, I am interested in the following:

Epstein, Richard A, Cases & Materials in Torts, 9th, Aspen

Dressler, Joshua, Cases & Materials on Criminal Law, 5th, West

Robinson, Paul H, Criminal Law Case Studies, 4th, West

Sloan, Amy E, Basic Legal Research: Tools & Strategies, 4th, Aspen

Shapo, Helene S, Walter, Marilyn, Fajans, Elizabeth, Writing & Analysis in the Law, 5th, Foundation

Columbia Law Review, The BlueBook, 19th, Harvard Law Review Association

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hkm6315
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby hkm6315 » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:49 am

Kilpatrick wrote:hkm6315 thank you so much for that post. Tremendously helpful and informative. I think the school should pay you for all the work you've done in this thread!



I have been in Texas the last handful of weeks, so I am just now getting around to responding to this. Honestly, if I was paid to post on this thread I would be a terrible employee because (as I stated earlier), I didn't respond to this thread for almost four months. :oops: I started this thread 1L year when you are really not even supposed to work. I started it purely to help other people starting law school at Illinois. I was completely freaked out before starting law school and hung out on this website for TWO YEARS seeking answers to all of my 0L questions. Yes, my second year I did start giving tours in the admissions office, but I am by no means paid for posting on this thread. I started it my first year in order to help give people answers to their questions, and to help 0Ls realize that law school is not nearly as scary and intimidating as many people may make it out to be (well, at least not at Illinois : ).

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hkm6315
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby hkm6315 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:39 am

Good luck with your first week of school 1Ls!!! I saw that people were giving restaurant advice. If you want to have an out of body experience with food, go to Old Chicago right next to Market Place Mall and order the pepperoni rolls. I don't even really eat pork or beef, but those rolls have to be the best thing I have ever tasted!!! They also have 110 different beers and cool beer flight samplers.

For cool/laid back downtown bars and grub: Blind Pig Pub, Cowboy Monkey, Boltini, Seven Saints (reaaally good food), and I suppose Guidos.

For great sushi and a cool atmosphere: KoFusion

Best breakfast food: Le Peep, Sammy's (Sammy's also has the best salsa ever!!! Way better than any of the Mexican food restaurants. I am from Texas and VERRRY picky about my salsa. I believe the owner, Sammy, is from Mexico. He makes it fresh daily! I will actually just buy a to-go container of the salsa and eat it at home.)

For amazing food that is a little bit fancy: Jim Gould's, Butitta's Famiglia Ristorante (but you need a reservation on the weekend), and Biaggis (their crab and lobster dip is amazing!)


Anyways, hope you guys all have a great first week of school!!! : )

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby Kilpatrick » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:12 am

.
Last edited by Kilpatrick on Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ChattelCat
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby ChattelCat » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:12 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:I like restaurant chat. So far in my first week I've eaten at

Yellowfin - decent food but service was incredibly slow - there was only one chef for the whole restaurant - and the waitress sucked

Radio Maria -I loved it. Ceviche with popcorn? Who would have thought. We had about 6 or 7 dishes and most were delicious. The cheesecake ice cream sandwich for dessert was great too

Black Dog - my favorite restaurant in C-U so far. Food was delicious, people were friendly and beer was CHEAP.

Steak n Shake - we don't have these in California. It's weird to me that you have a waitress. It's like Ruby's or Johnny Rockets but with In N Out prices. I like it. Not as good as In N OUt but its an acceptable substitute.

Geovantis - Ate here for lunch one day. Holy shit it was terrible. I swore somebody had mentioned it in one of the Illinois threads which is why I went there. Maybe somebody mentioned it as a warning. Shitty service, shitty atmosphere and the food made me want to vomit.

Papa Del's - About a billion times better than Geovantis. Not as good as real Chicago places, but it satisfied my Chicago pizza craving.

So far I'm pretty pleased with the restaurant scene here.


Don't know if you've already discovered this blog, but it's excellent. It has just about everything you could ever want to know about eating out in this town. http://champaign-taste.blogspot.com/

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hkm6315
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby hkm6315 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:46 am

IS EVERYBODY READY FOR ROUND 3? :D

Yeah... So I started this thread when I was a 1L, and I am now a 3L. I have no idea how to change the name of this thread (or if that is even possible). :lol: In any case, there are 2Ls, 3Ls, and 1Ls who can answer your questions on this thread.

I know that application for regular admission and early decision opened up last week. So there must be people out there with questions who are applying to Illinois. If you have questions, A LOT of them can be answered by reading the previous posts in this thread. If you don't feel like doing that, or your question isn't answered in there, feel free to ask any of us.

I am also going to put in a plug for the Beer League Darts party tonight. It starts at 9 at Clark Bar, and there is a $5 cover that gets you free food and beer. This is the last time to sign up for beer league darts!! You can have 3-6 people on a team, and it is A TON OF FUN!!!! Seriously, throwing sharp objects at a wall while having a beer is a great way to blow off some steam in the middle of the week. :) You don't have to actually know how to play darts, and you definitely don't have to be any good. There is a smaller law school competitive league for people that actually know how to play, but the majority of people are in the noncompetitive league. I think there are 30+ teams of 3-6 people in the noncompetitive league... In a nutshell: BLD is pretty much the best thing ever.

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Cmoss
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby Cmoss » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:08 pm

hkm6315 wrote:IS EVERYBODY READY FOR ROUND 3? :D


not sure if i missed it but what did you end up doing for your summer?

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hkm6315
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Re: Illinois Law 1L Taking Questions

Postby hkm6315 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:28 pm

I did talk about it a few posts ago. I worked in the domestic violence division of the prosecutor's office in Indianapolis. Basically handled the cases for a prosecutor that left on maternity leave since I had my temporary license to practice law. I also worked in a domestic violence court the summer after my first year. I am really interested in staying in domestic violence (see earlier posts). I have also been looking into applying for the special agent position of the FBI, but I have spoken with some lawyer friends who became special agents and they say you need at least 3 years of lawyer experience for them to take you seriously... I had a bunch of different ideas about what I was interested in before I came to law school, but I took a bunch of different classes and realized that I love criminal law. I also love doing trials and being in the courtroom constantly. You could work for a Big Law firm for 10 years and never even step inside a courtroom. However, a lot of people are not at all interested in doing trials and being in the courtroom constantly so that is fine with them.

In any case, I can answer questions about firm jobs, but if you want more specifics I would PM ChattelCat because she worked for a big firm this summer. There are also a few people on here that I know worked at small to mid sized firms this summer.




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