Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

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brendawalsh
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby brendawalsh » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:14 pm

Teapot wrote:
brendawalsh wrote:I drove by it and I wasn't impressed at all. Definitely not aesthetically pleasing...but then again that shouldn't be the most important thing about decided where to go. I'm from the East Coast and I had never heard of it before visiting San Diego. That is just my 2 cents.

brand new building opening up right down town. if the building was your only problem...

Ahhhh interesting. I saw a "for sale" sign on one of the buildings so it almost looked like the law school was downsizing which gave me a bad impression of the school. I guess that explains it :lol:

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lucydog
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby lucydog » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:31 pm

caroltowtrucker1 wrote:
pretzellogic wrote:
There is some excessive negativity in some quarters.

However, keep in mind that the 15% that didn't report likely had the absolute worst results, were not hounded for their response by the law school, and/or were too depressed to respond. Keep in mind that 55k is less money that some skillful career building over the course of 3 years will get almost any intelligent college graduate. Keep in mind that the 55k salary reported is NOT for legal gigs only. They report ANY full-time employment as full-time employment, and count the salary towards their total. (And of those graduates making the 55k median salary, many of them are making 55k at jobs they could have gotten straight out of college.)

All schools manipulate their employment percentages and median salary by doing these things.

The problem is that when tier 1 schools in large cities do this manipulation, they get numbers above 100k. 55k is NOT a hopeful number.

Think long and hard before paying a dime for an education at a school like this. If you have a full scholarship, whatever. Consider going. If you have *any* chance whatsoever of scoring higher on the LSAT, take it again. A 150 is like 1000 on the SAT. A 160 is like 1200. See the difference?

Take a class. Buy the books. Invest $2k in gaining 10 points on the LSAT, and you'll likely earn more than $10k every year.

This is not a joke. The negativity is abrasive, but I've done the research, and those people were right. I'm glad I encountered them on these forums.

When people told you that all you need is that law degree, they were wrong. It's not like that in law (it is in medicine to a great extent). They probably thought you'd make 100k. It seems you've already come to terms with the 55k median -- but do you realize how bad that is? How hard it is to pay back 100k of loans on 55k?

There are 0 Big Law, 135k jobs waiting for graduates of Thomas Jefferson. 0. Do you love law more than anything? Want to make the world a better place? Fine. But just make sure you will be financially solvent. Better yet, take the LSAT again and break into tier 2 or tier 1. It's worth it.

http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414employment_trends.pdf
See how ugly it gets even at the bottom of tier 2?


Amen.


+1 This should be required reading. If there is not an absolute pressing need to go to law school now, consider investing some serious time in LSAT prep and re-take.

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Teapot
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby Teapot » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:38 pm

brendawalsh wrote:
Teapot wrote:
brendawalsh wrote:I drove by it and I wasn't impressed at all. Definitely not aesthetically pleasing...but then again that shouldn't be the most important thing about decided where to go. I'm from the East Coast and I had never heard of it before visiting San Diego. That is just my 2 cents.

brand new building opening up right down town. if the building was your only problem...

Ahhhh interesting. I saw a "for sale" sign on one of the buildings so it almost looked like the law school was downsizing which gave me a bad impression of the school. I guess that explains it :lol:

if you go to their website they have an artists rendering of the new building that will open fall of 2010. its in down town on island, not too far from the courthouse. i know its crazy but i really hope they give me a full scholly so i can consider them

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Mulliganstew
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby Mulliganstew » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:00 am

CE2JD wrote:Some of the posters in this thread are probably just trolls trying to make themselves feel better about their small penises by insulting lower ranked schools.


Fixed.

orgdonor
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby orgdonor » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:40 pm

pretzellogic wrote:
lsb wrote:
jsporter wrote:
lsb wrote:/JDunderground hat on

TTThomas Jefferson is a TTT toileTTTe of the highest order, if you don't graduate in the upper 5 % you will be lucky to get a $35k per year shitlaw gig, which will never be enough to pay off your 200k loans which you took out for the "privilege" of earning a salary less than that of a cop or even garbage man.

/JDunderground hat off

Thats funny because the median salary is 55K.


Don't trust the reported median salary. It could well be the median of the top 20%...



55k is with 85% of grads responding.

OP-Don't listen to people who like to say that unless you get into a T14 you won't break 35k a year. That is complete and utter BS. I think that for some reason it pisses a select group of people off that they're opportunities for people that don't get into a T14.


There is some excessive negativity in some quarters.

However, keep in mind that the 15% that didn't report likely had the absolute worst results, were not hounded for their response by the law school, and/or were too depressed to respond. Keep in mind that 55k is less money that some skillful career building over the course of 3 years will get almost any intelligent college graduate. Keep in mind that the 55k salary reported is NOT for legal gigs only. They report ANY full-time employment as full-time employment, and count the salary towards their total. (And of those graduates making the 55k median salary, many of them are making 55k at jobs they could have gotten straight out of college.)

All schools manipulate their employment percentages and median salary by doing these things.

The problem is that when tier 1 schools in large cities do this manipulation, they get numbers above 100k. 55k is NOT a hopeful number.

Think long and hard before paying a dime for an education at a school like this. If you have a full scholarship, whatever. Consider going. If you have *any* chance whatsoever of scoring higher on the LSAT, take it again. A 150 is like 1000 on the SAT. A 160 is like 1200. See the difference?

Take a class. Buy the books. Invest $2k in gaining 10 points on the LSAT, and you'll likely earn more than $10k every year.

This is not a joke. The negativity is abrasive, but I've done the research, and those people were right. I'm glad I encountered them on these forums.

When people told you that all you need is that law degree, they were wrong. It's not like that in law (it is in medicine to a great extent). They probably thought you'd make 100k. It seems you've already come to terms with the 55k median -- but do you realize how bad that is? How hard it is to pay back 100k of loans on 55k?

There are 0 Big Law, 135k jobs waiting for graduates of Thomas Jefferson. 0. Do you love law more than anything? Want to make the world a better place? Fine. But just make sure you will be financially solvent. Better yet, take the LSAT again and break into tier 2 or tier 1. It's worth it.

http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414employment_trends.pdf
See how ugly it gets even at the bottom of tier 2?


wise man.

you're welcome.

good luck.

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doyleoil
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby doyleoil » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:47 pm

i'm not sure where that 85% number came from

in the u.s. news online guide, it says that 36% of people working in the private sector reported their salary information - so take the percent of people working in the private sector (from lsac online guide: 51%) *278 grads = 110 - now take 36% of 110 = 40 - that's the number of grads you KNOW FOR SURE the statistics apply to - so you know for sure that 20 grads are making above the 55k median (others could be, though if they are, it's probably in another profession) - ouch

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CE2JD
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby CE2JD » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:32 am

Mulliganstew wrote:
CE2JD wrote:Some of the posters in this thread are probably just trolls trying to make themselves feel better about their small penises by insulting lower ranked schools.


Fixed.


Nothing wrong with insulting a school that rips people off and isn't worth most students' money. I have said nothing about the people at the school, only that the school has a shitty reputation. I personally have several friends here in San Diego that went to TJLS and they all said it was a bad choice.

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Mulliganstew
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby Mulliganstew » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:30 pm

And I have friends there who really enjoyed their education at TJ.

Let's face it, CE2JD, you have a history of snobbery towards lower ranked schools (which is hilarious when you got so defensive about your UG institution.).

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby Mr. Matlock » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:42 pm

Mulliganstew wrote:And I have friends there who really enjoyed their education at TJ.

Let's face it, CE2JD, you have a history of snobbery towards lower ranked schools (which is hilarious when you got so defensive about your UG institution.).

I have my .02 cents to add here but first, Mr. CE2JD. He is indeed very hard on the lower ranked schools, but I feel his heart is in the right place and he is sincere. Also, he has a pretty good sense of humor, and I've always looked fondly on that as a trait for anyone. Life’s too short to take everything so seriously, and CE2JD gets it. (No, this is not a paid endorsement, but certainly he can feel free to remember me when he's some big shot in a patent law office)

Now, to the point at hand. My suggestion is for anyone, for any school, to make sure when you go to visit your school of interest, you talk to as many 2L, and 3L students as possible. They will have a good idea for recent employment trends due to the likelihood of contact with former students and their own internship experiences. Next, see if you can contact any alumni yourself and get their opinions as well. If you feel comfortable with the outcome, then by all means give it due consideration. Everyone is concerned about employment and debt after school. REMEMBER, you cannot discharge student loan debt through bankruptcy. It stays with you for life, or as soon as you can pay it off. This is a HUGE decision and you will do yourself a HUGE disfavor if you go into it with blinders on.

I wish you good luck and hope the very best for you and everyone. As always, good times.

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CE2JD
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby CE2JD » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:45 am

Mulliganstew wrote:And I have friends there who really enjoyed their education at TJ.

Let's face it, CE2JD, you have a history of snobbery towards lower ranked schools (which is hilarious when you got so defensive about your UG institution.).


If by snobbery you mean realism, then yes. There's a reason why I would never go to TJ even if they paid me my current salary to go there all 3 years. I'm not going to put on some shit-eating grin and tell you all it'll be okay and that TJ is a 'good' law school. It's not. It blows. I'm not some snobby asshole elitist. I really hope it all works out for you, but sometimes the truth hurts. Please don't take it personally, but from what I've heard from my friends TJLS closes more doors than it opens for people. If you don't believe me, why don't you listen to some JDU people. Certainly you wouldn't consider them 'snobs'.
Last edited by CE2JD on Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Motoxer52
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby Motoxer52 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:50 am

CE2JD wrote:
Mulliganstew wrote:And I have friends there who really enjoyed their education at TJ.

Let's face it, CE2JD, you have a history of snobbery towards lower ranked schools (which is hilarious when you got so defensive about your UG institution.).


If by snobbery you mean realism, then yes. There's a reason why I would never go to TJ even if they paid me my current salary to go there all 3 years. I'm not going to put on some shit-eating grin and tell you all it'll be okay and that TJ is a 'good' law school. It's not. It blows.

CE2JD is right and the sooner you doubters figure it out the better off you will be.

jawsome
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby jawsome » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:42 pm

SD native here. TJ is considered a complete joke in the area. I don't even think it's even ABA-approved. It would be an absolute waste of TONS of money to go there. I really do not understand why people go there.

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Teapot
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby Teapot » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:44 pm

jawsome wrote:SD native here. TJ is considered a complete joke in the area. I don't even think it's even ABA-approved. It would be an absolute waste of TONS of money to go there. I really do not understand why people go there.

it is aba approved. as far as i can tell it is not an absolute joke. i can understand why people go there, but i will certainly not go there.

Jay Obee
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby Jay Obee » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:56 pm

lsb wrote:
MTal wrote:/JDunderground hat on

TTThomas Jefferson is a TTT toileTTTe of the highest order, if you don't graduate in the upper 5 % you will be lucky to get a $35k per year shitlaw gig, which will never be enough to pay off your 200k loans which you took out for the "privilege" of earning a salary less than that of a cop or even garbage man.

/JDunderground hat off




Thats funny because the median salary is 55K.


What's funny is that you say 55k as if it is a reasonable wage for an attorney.

I do find some merit in choosing TJSL over CW for $, because neither guarantees much of anything, but USD is THE law school in SD. To choose any other school in SD is to severely limit your near and distant future opportunities. That is not to say you can't do well regardless, just that certain doors will be closed to you due to the snobs no matter where you graduate in TJSL's class.

If I was choosing between 4th tier schools, I would be happy at any of CW, TJSL, or Golden Gate just for the sake of cool california locations, though.

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beckysoc24
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby beckysoc24 » Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:16 pm

Teapot wrote:
jawsome wrote:SD native here. TJ is considered a complete joke in the area. I don't even think it's even ABA-approved. It would be an absolute waste of TONS of money to go there. I really do not understand why people go there.

it is aba approved. as far as i can tell it is not an absolute joke. i can understand why people go there, but i will certainly not go there.


+1. and I think I heard that they were in danger of losing their accreditation at one point, but it didn't happen. But it isn't highly regarded in this area (granted most of the opinions I hear are from USD students/faculty/staff). I think Cal Western is looked at a little more respectably.

iliketothinkiamcool
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby iliketothinkiamcool » Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:14 am

Mission Beach is an amazing place, all those houses/rental homes or whatever they are along the beach are in an amazing location. It would be amazing to wake up each morning and see the Pacific Ocean. The weather is almost always perfect too!

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RVP11
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby RVP11 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:21 am

iliketothinkiamcool wrote:Mission Beach is an amazing place, all those houses/rental homes or whatever they are along the beach are in an amazing location. It would be amazing to wake up each morning and see the Pacific Ocean. The weather is almost always perfect too!


$1000/mo rent for like 300 sq. ft. is the killer.

There's a reason most of the property in Mission is owned by rich Zonies.

iliketothinkiamcool
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby iliketothinkiamcool » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:51 am

JSUVA2012 wrote:
iliketothinkiamcool wrote:Mission Beach is an amazing place, all those houses/rental homes or whatever they are along the beach are in an amazing location. It would be amazing to wake up each morning and see the Pacific Ocean. The weather is almost always perfect too!


$1000/mo rent for like 300 sq. ft. is the killer.

There's a reason most of the property in Mission is owned by rich Zonies.


$1000 for 300 sq.ft??? Wow...

the dude
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby the dude » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:07 am

doyleoil wrote:i'm not sure where that 85% number came from

in the u.s. news online guide, it says that 36% of people working in the private sector reported their salary information - so take the percent of people working in the private sector (from lsac online guide: 51%) *278 grads = 110 - now take 36% of 110 = 40 - that's the number of grads you KNOW FOR SURE the statistics apply to - so you know for sure that 20 grads are making above the 55k median (others could be, though if they are, it's probably in another profession) - ouch



He's right, OP. 55K median means that 20 grads (note: raw number and not percent of) are making that number or above. I'm not one to trash other schools, but I do think there are a few questions that you NEED to ask yourself before attending a school like this. How badly do you want to go to law school (i.e. life long dream or you have no idea what you want to do with your life)? How much debt are you going to take out? How much will you owe in debt repayments each month, and for how long? If you wind up unemployed or fail the bar, will you be able to leverage your JD? Have you looked at how many people the school kicks out after the first year? I wouldn't attend this school without doing significant research.

Edit: The idea is right, but are the numbers off? 51% of 278 = 141. 141*0.36 = 51. Therefore 26 people are making 55K or more.
Last edited by the dude on Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Teapot
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby Teapot » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:09 am

beckysoc24 wrote:
Teapot wrote:
jawsome wrote:SD native here. TJ is considered a complete joke in the area. I don't even think it's even ABA-approved. It would be an absolute waste of TONS of money to go there. I really do not understand why people go there.

it is aba approved. as far as i can tell it is not an absolute joke. i can understand why people go there, but i will certainly not go there.


+1. and I think I heard that they were in danger of losing their accreditation at one point, but it didn't happen. But it isn't highly regarded in this area (granted most of the opinions I hear are from USD students/faculty/staff). I think Cal Western is looked at a little more respectably.

i really like cal western's location, just a few blocks off balboa park. its almost enough to make me consider it. at any rate, congressman duncan hunter and dumanis(sp?) the DA are both tjls alumns. they are obviously outliers but its reassuring to know that if you have talent and brains thomas jefferson can teach you basically what you need to know. i think this is a reassuring thought for all TTTTs.

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CE2JD
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby CE2JD » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:10 pm

Teapot wrote:
beckysoc24 wrote:
Teapot wrote:it is aba approved. as far as i can tell it is not an absolute joke. i can understand why people go there, but i will certainly not go there.


+1. and I think I heard that they were in danger of losing their accreditation at one point, but it didn't happen. But it isn't highly regarded in this area (granted most of the opinions I hear are from USD students/faculty/staff). I think Cal Western is looked at a little more respectably.

i really like cal western's location, just a few blocks off balboa park. its almost enough to make me consider it. at any rate, congressman duncan hunter and dumanis(sp?) the DA are both tjls alumns. they are obviously outliers but its reassuring to know that if you have talent and brains thomas jefferson can teach you basically what you need to know. i think this is a reassuring thought for all TTTTs.


The mayor of Los Angeles went to People's College of Law. Having famous politicians go to your law school doesn't mean your law school teaches you anything. I agree with other posters that you should only pay full price at TJ if you REALLY REALLY REALLY want to be a lawyer / use your law degree and if you are a type 'A' person with a drive to succeed.

iliketothinkiamcool
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby iliketothinkiamcool » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:47 pm

The cost of living in San Diego probably doesn't help too much with ones bills after law school either.

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Teapot
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby Teapot » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:54 pm

CE2JD wrote:
Teapot wrote:
beckysoc24 wrote:
Teapot wrote:it is aba approved. as far as i can tell it is not an absolute joke. i can understand why people go there, but i will certainly not go there.


+1. and I think I heard that they were in danger of losing their accreditation at one point, but it didn't happen. But it isn't highly regarded in this area (granted most of the opinions I hear are from USD students/faculty/staff). I think Cal Western is looked at a little more respectably.

i really like cal western's location, just a few blocks off balboa park. its almost enough to make me consider it. at any rate, congressman duncan hunter and dumanis(sp?) the DA are both tjls alumns. they are obviously outliers but its reassuring to know that if you have talent and brains thomas jefferson can teach you basically what you need to know. i think this is a reassuring thought for all TTTTs.


The mayor of Los Angeles went to People's College of Law. Having famous politicians go to your law school doesn't mean your law school teaches you anything. I agree with other posters that you should only pay full price at TJ if you REALLY REALLY REALLY want to be a lawyer / use your law degree and if you are a type 'A' person with a drive to succeed.

no i disagree. i think the low ranking of a school is a result of the low quality of the student body. if a member of that student body makes it big it isn't because of connections or prestige. it might mean that person was naturally gifted and chose not to go to a better school. it might mean that person was a very late bloomer. it might mean the lsat failed to represent that persons potential. but i think in any of these cases the person got a legal education sufficient to succeed in the world.

iliketothinkiamcool
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby iliketothinkiamcool » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:00 pm

Looking at the ABA guide, cost of living is only like 7.2K less than FT tuiton

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Teapot
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Re: Thomas Jefferson in San Diego

Postby Teapot » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:03 pm

iliketothinkiamcool wrote:Looking at the ABA guide, cost of living is only like 7.2K less than FT tuiton

no way. this could only be true if you insist on living right next to the school. the school will be in downtown next year. a short bus ride and you are into the neighborhoods on the far side of the zoo where crime isn't horrible and rent isn't too high. you can live comfortably for 10k




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