Any USC students? Forum

[blbs]

That's what landed me here. We are a very friendly bunch.
Which classes did you sit in on?

Constitutional Law with David Cruz. He was pretty awesome.

[jacktripper]

Do either of the 1Ls responding (thanks, by the way) have any feel for USC placement in the Bay Area?

How well does USC place into norcal, specifically SF and south bay firms? Are there a good % of grads who move to the bay area for work?

So key... especially as I weigh the respective merits of USC v. Hastings, knowing fully that I intend to practice in San Francisco.

The California Bar website has some good statistics:

This shows that SF is USC's 7th largest market, but that only 2% of graduates end up there.
http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... 0&g=2&pp=5

In San Francisco almost 20% of attorneys are from Hastings, while under a percent are from USC. For me at least this is data I find hard to ignore, despite how strongly I like USC.
http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... 0&g=2&pp=5

The website lets you change the fields and shows all sorts of data.

I think some of this could be attributed to the possibility that the majority of USC students prefer southern California to northern California. Another way of looking at this is that Hastings students can't find work outside of San Francisco and USC students have many more options and don't place a lot of students into one area other than LA. Just trying to look at this from a different perspective.

[ucla2008]

Any USC law students live downtown and able to recommend building? or places to look?

[blbs]

Do either of the 1Ls responding (thanks, by the way) have any feel for USC placement in the Bay Area?

How well does USC place into norcal, specifically SF and south bay firms? Are there a good % of grads who move to the bay area for work?

So key... especially as I weigh the respective merits of USC v. Hastings, knowing fully that I intend to practice in San Francisco.

The California Bar website has some good statistics:

This shows that SF is USC's 7th largest market, but that only 2% of graduates end up there.
http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... 0&g=2&pp=5

In San Francisco almost 20% of attorneys are from Hastings, while under a percent are from USC. For me at least this is data I find hard to ignore, despite how strongly I like USC.
http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... 0&g=2&pp=5

The website lets you change the fields and shows all sorts of data.

I think some of this could be attributed to the possibility that the majority of USC students prefer southern California to northern California. Another way of looking at this is that Hastings students can't find work outside of San Francisco and USC students have many more options and don't place a lot of students into one area other than LA. Just trying to look at this from a different perspective.

Absolutely. I have no doubt that much of the correlation between the school and alumni geographic concentrations is self selected.

[trojanfan06]

When I visited loyola they said for their OCI, employers get to see their GPAs but that this is not true for USC/UCLA. They said at USC/UCLA it is a lottery style, is this true and how does this work exactly? Because wouldn't all the students try to get interview for the top firms?

[BradyToMoss]

When I visited loyola they said for their OCI, employers get to see their GPAs but that this is not true for USC/UCLA. They said at USC/UCLA it is a lottery style, is this true and how does this work exactly? Because wouldn't all the students try to get interview for the top firms?

USC does do an all lottery system, like many schools, and I believe for a school in USC's situation it is in most students' best interest that they use this system. USC's curve produces results with many students falling very close to the median. Given that employers know only the median (3.3 now) and 10% cutoff GPA, many students are able to say they are either just above the median (solid shot at a NLJ 250) or right near the median (still good employment prospects). Given this situation, it is ideal to get as many students interviews with firms, especially since those already in the top 1/3 are likely to land a solid SA somewhere, and probably wouldn't need 20 interviews instead of 15 (this is all optimistic hoping the legal market doesn't completely suck). Students are given information as to what GPAs firms have hired at in the past from USC; as a result students whose GPAs likely make them uncompetitive at some of the top firms will use their bids on other firms they like where they have a better chance.

This system is definitely advantageous to most, and shouldn't really hurt anyone. Perhaps a ton of students would apply for an elite firm, and someone who had a stellar gpa/resume may not get an OCI interview, but that person can still probably get an interview by sending a cover letter/resume to that firm.

Loyola, on the other hand, has very different employment prospects than USC. Students outside the top 10% (maybe 20%) at Loyola are unlikely to land jobs with a lot of the bigger firms at an OCI, and thus Loyola wants to make sure that its students with a good chance at landing these jobs get as many interviews as they can.

[trojanfan06]

Anyone know if any of the profs offered for tours are a little more socratic? I've sat in on various classes at different law schools but have yet to really see a socratic prof and wanted to see what it's like. The profs available for USC are Cruz, Brown, Armour, and Altman (already sat in). I know someone earlier in the thread mentioned he sat in with Cruz, could you chime in? Thanks

[BradyToMoss]

Anyone know if any of the profs offered for tours are a little more socratic? I've sat in on various classes at different law schools but have yet to really see a socratic prof and wanted to see what it's like. The profs available for USC are Cruz, Brown, Armour, and Altman (already sat in). I know someone earlier in the thread mentioned he sat in with Cruz, could you chime in? Thanks

Cruz takes a somewhat Socratic approach from what I understand (don't have him). Armour just lectures, Brown will cold-call a bit but not really Socratic. Altman is excellent (in my opinion). I'd sit in on Altman to see an engaging professor, and Cruz if you're looking for something close to the Socratic Method (Most profs at USC seem to not use the Socratic method, and if they do cold-call it's not like they're asking really difficult questions/sending you in circles/trying to make you look dumb).

[blbs]

Anyone know if any of the profs offered for tours are a little more socratic? I've sat in on various classes at different law schools but have yet to really see a socratic prof and wanted to see what it's like. The profs available for USC are Cruz, Brown, Armour, and Altman (already sat in). I know someone earlier in the thread mentioned he sat in with Cruz, could you chime in? Thanks

Cruz was a little bit socratic when I sat in. However he had plenty of volunteers so there wasn't any cold calling.

[craneaa]

Do either of the 1Ls responding (thanks, by the way) have any feel for USC placement in the Bay Area?

How well does USC place into norcal, specifically SF and south bay firms? Are there a good % of grads who move to the bay area for work?

So key... especially as I weigh the respective merits of USC v. Hastings, knowing fully that I intend to practice in San Francisco.

The California Bar website has some good statistics:

This shows that SF is USC's 7th largest market, but that only 2% of graduates end up there.
http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... 0&g=2&pp=5

In San Francisco almost 20% of attorneys are from Hastings, while under a percent are from USC. For me at least this is data I find hard to ignore, despite how strongly I like USC.
http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... 0&g=2&pp=5

The website lets you change the fields and shows all sorts of data.


Also I thought I would offer my opinion on USC v. UCLA. I initially was not at all interested in USC. I have many close friends at UCLA, both in UG and LS, and until I visited USC recently had no previous interaction with the campus. When I went to USC to tour I did it as an almost afterthought, thinking to myself why would I want to go to there with Westwood as an alternative.

Well... I couldn't have been more uninformed. I've sat in on about half a dozen classes at UCLA law and students at UCLA, while undoubtedly intelligent, gave off a very different vibe than USC students. In the classes I sat on UCLA students seemed indifferent, unengaged, and basically down on life. The classroom environments that I experienced at USC were polar opposite. Students were thoroughly engaged in discussions about the material and the learning environment was much more participatory. UCLA classes in contrast feel more like UG lectures. Furthermore, after two visits and conversations with many students and several professors I experienced a friendliness and approachability that I have not found at any other law school.

Thanks for posting this, bibs. Does anyone else have any input on USC's San Francisco prospects? My one big hang up with USC is my fear that I won't be able to find work in San Francisco- it's really important to me. Any 2L/3L's out there that could shed some light on this?

[BradyToMoss]

^ I pm'd you info about USC students and SF. Anyone else wanting the same feel free to pm me.

And yes, the environment in class is friendly and participatory, it makes law school a lot easier.

[randomlybrian]

Let me premise my post by saying I am very glad I found this thread. It seemed that page after page was not turning up USC LS posts. If you do not mind me asking, what was your app. stats like? For the longest time I have been considering UCLA as my top choice, but with an interest in ET law and planning on spending my life in the LA region, USC seems like a more appropriate fit. I know there are some great ET fellowships for the summer following 1L but do any of you have experience with this?

Also, coming from LA I am really tired of people complaining about the mythical dangers of living in a city. If you don't want to live there, perhaps Davis is a better choice. LA is a city with great opportunities, awesome people and amazing food. Also, studying at the beach on any given day beats out every other law school I can think of.

If anyone has information on their ET program I would love to know more. Thanks~

[rondemarino]

I understand you guys are 1Ls, but I am curious to know if you have any idea why USC fares sopoorly (relative to peers) in the Lawyers/Judges survey of USNWR. I get that USNWR isn't everything, but that score is a decent proxy for how the degree is perceived by professionals. Any thoughts?

[JJDancer]

Do either of you guys know how many summer fellowships there are and how they work? It would be pretty nice to have a guaranteed job for 1L summer.

I know this is old but I was looking for this as well and on the USC website it says that ROTHAM Recipients also receive a Summer Fellowship
that provides a guaranteed job in the law firm of Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, following the first year of law school.

So apparently its connected to that - not a separate determination.

[democrattotheend]

Did anyone have Professor Barnett for Contracts last year or the year before? He's a visiting professor at NYU this year and because he's new, there are no previous exams or outlines for his class available. Anyone have him and want to share outlines/previous exams/general tidbits? Because he does not use a casebook, it's especially hard to figure out what we're supposed to know for his class.

[WonkyPanda]

Hey guys! I will be applying to USC within a few weeks (3.68/167) and was just wondering a few things:

-Is there a place where the majority of the LS live? I know a minority live on campus but I was wondering if there is a area/complex where a good chunk of the students live

-I've heard mixed things about the facilities at the law school. How do they stack up to some other schools? What brings about these mixed feelings on the facilities?

-Does the LS have its own library or is it part of the UG library as well?

-Just going through this thread i can see that the area isn't terrible but isn't amazing either (which is expected). However, how about things to do like grab a bite to eat or doing some type of activity? Are there good locations within walking distance from the campus?

Thanks guys!

[GokartMozart315]

how does usc place on the east coast? waiting to hear back, have realistic chance, and if i get in it'll be the best school i'm in at. however, as much as i liked la the two times i visited, i'm from ny, and love dc (where i currently live); does usc offer any flexibility?

[JJDancer]

how does usc place on the east coast? waiting to hear back, have realistic chance, and if i get in it'll be the best school i'm in at. however, as much as i liked la the two times i visited, i'm from ny, and love dc (where i currently live); does usc offer any flexibility?

If you're willing to hustle, working in NY/DC from USC is possible. However, I don't think USC helps much on the east coast. On one hand, there are fewer alumni out there which may make them more inclined to help a fellow Trojan come out there. But the USC name and connections are more helpful in LA than they are in CA as a whole and a lot more in CA than on the east coast, imo. That being said, career services does work with you if you seek them out and do post nationwide opportunities and specialized things in other markets like patents/hard IP in chicago etc. I know people who have gone to NY/DC for their summers from here and your previous ties will help you do that but in my personal opinion if you don't have some reason for coming to LA other than it being the best school you got into, and you know you want to return to the East Coast, I wouldn't risk it.

NY has so many law schools and DC has some strong ones. Also they are both very national (Harvard/Stanford people also apply to these markets) and almost anyone interested in gov't applies to DC, it can be a lot of competition so since you already have the DC geographical advantage, consider staying. Again, I'm not sure what your career goals are or if you have more solid reasons for LA/SC but these are just some thoughts.

[GokartMozart315]

how does usc place on the east coast? waiting to hear back, have realistic chance, and if i get in it'll be the best school i'm in at. however, as much as i liked la the two times i visited, i'm from ny, and love dc (where i currently live); does usc offer any flexibility?

If you're willing to hustle, working in NY/DC from USC is possible. However, I don't think USC helps much on the east coast. On one hand, there are fewer alumni out there which may make them more inclined to help a fellow Trojan come out there. But the USC name and connections are more helpful in LA than they are in CA as a whole and a lot more in CA than on the east coast, imo. That being said, career services does work with you if you seek them out and do post nationwide opportunities and specialized things in other markets like patents/hard IP in chicago etc. I know people who have gone to NY/DC for their summers from here and your previous ties will help you do that but in my personal opinion if you don't have some reason for coming to LA other than it being the best school you got into, and you know you want to return to the East Coast, I wouldn't risk it.

NY has so many law schools and DC has some strong ones. Also they are both very national (Harvard/Stanford people also apply to these markets) and almost anyone interested in gov't applies to DC, it can be a lot of competition so since you already have the DC geographical advantage, consider staying. Again, I'm not sure what your career goals are or if you have more solid reasons for LA/SC but these are just some thoughts.

thanks for the detailed response. i should mention that i can't stay in dc since other than gtown and gw, which i didn't get into, the law schools suck, and i didn't apply to any other. so, no geo advantage going forward. i'm either going to usc if i get in, or a lesser school in a market i'm less of a fan of than either dc or sc. i really don't like ny, but i'm from there and have ties, so if i don't find a better option i sort of have to go there...my career goals pretty much require biglaw in one city or another, or some special midlaw that gives me great prospects.

a relevant question might be, how will i fare as a usc grad alum in ny or dc against, say, as a fordham alum?

[JJDancer]

thanks for the detailed response. i should mention that i can't stay in dc since other than gtown and gw, which i didn't get into, the law schools suck, and i didn't apply to any other. so, no geo advantage going forward. i'm either going to usc if i get in, or a lesser school in a market i'm less of a fan of than either dc or sc. i really don't like ny, but i'm from there and have ties, so if i don't find a better option i sort of have to go there...my career goals pretty much require biglaw in one city or another, or some special midlaw that gives me great prospects.

a relevant question might be, how will i fare as a usc grad alum in ny or dc against, say, as a fordham alum?

I'm really not sure how a USC alum would fare against a Fordham alum. I would imagine that if for example you would need to be top 20% to get Biglaw in LA from USC, then you may need something like top 10% in NY since they are less familiar with USC.
Comparing a top 10% Fordham grad to a top 10% USC grad though, I am unsure about who NY Biglaw would prefer.

If you look at reported statistics, 86% of USC grads stay in California for their first post graduation job. This is largely self-selected (people want to stay) but since there may be only 10 people going to NY+DC in any given year, it's hard to predict.

From what I gather, it is possible but I don't think the USC name/ranking helps much on the East Coast.

[GokartMozart315]

thanks for the detailed response. i should mention that i can't stay in dc since other than gtown and gw, which i didn't get into, the law schools suck, and i didn't apply to any other. so, no geo advantage going forward. i'm either going to usc if i get in, or a lesser school in a market i'm less of a fan of than either dc or sc. i really don't like ny, but i'm from there and have ties, so if i don't find a better option i sort of have to go there...my career goals pretty much require biglaw in one city or another, or some special midlaw that gives me great prospects.

a relevant question might be, how will i fare as a usc grad alum in ny or dc against, say, as a fordham alum?

I'm really not sure how a USC alum would fare against a Fordham alum. I would imagine that if for example you would need to be top 20% to get Biglaw in LA from USC, then you may need something like top 10% in NY since they are less familiar with USC.
Comparing a top 10% Fordham grad to a top 10% USC grad though, I am unsure about who NY Biglaw would prefer.

If you look at reported statistics, 86% of USC grads stay in California for their first post graduation job. This is largely self-selected (people want to stay) but since there may be only 10 people going to NY+DC in any given year, it's hard to predict.

From what I gather, it is possible but I don't think the USC name/ranking helps much on the East Coast.

interesting, thanks. must admit it's not what i wanted to hear haha, as i would've liked to go west coats for law school and then return home in good standing, but the truth is better i guess

[Wyld Stallyns]

thanks for the detailed response. i should mention that i can't stay in dc since other than gtown and gw, which i didn't get into, the law schools suck, and i didn't apply to any other. so, no geo advantage going forward. i'm either going to usc if i get in, or a lesser school in a market i'm less of a fan of than either dc or sc. i really don't like ny, but i'm from there and have ties, so if i don't find a better option i sort of have to go there...my career goals pretty much require biglaw in one city or another, or some special midlaw that gives me great prospects.

a relevant question might be, how will i fare as a usc grad alum in ny or dc against, say, as a fordham alum?

I'm really not sure how a USC alum would fare against a Fordham alum. I would imagine that if for example you would need to be top 20% to get Biglaw in LA from USC, then you may need something like top 10% in NY since they are less familiar with USC.
Comparing a top 10% Fordham grad to a top 10% USC grad though, I am unsure about who NY Biglaw would prefer.

If you look at reported statistics, 86% of USC grads stay in California for their first post graduation job. This is largely self-selected (people want to stay) but since there may be only 10 people going to NY+DC in any given year, it's hard to predict.

From what I gather, it is possible but I don't think the USC name/ranking helps much on the East Coast.

USC 3L here--this is pretty much right. The only people I know who are going to NY for private practice have ties to the east coast and are in the top 10-15%. I doubt USC would place better than Fordham in NY, all other things being equal. Now, I didn't attempt to find an east coast job, so I don't have any personal experience with this, but that's my general inclination.

[rogerstan]

Hey USC students.

I'd like to know how 1L and 2L summer placements went this year. Anything you can share, enlighten us with?

Also, for 3L's how are the employment prospects shaping up for your class? What is the situation looking like for those who aren't in the top 30%?

Any thoughts/insights into the job market this year would be great. Thanks!

[Wyld Stallyns]

Hey USC students.

I'd like to know how 1L and 2L summer placements went this year. Anything you can share, enlighten us with?

Also, for 3L's how are the employment prospects shaping up for your class? What is the situation looking like for those who aren't in the top 30%?

Any thoughts/insights into the job market this year would be great. Thanks!

I posted this in the other USC thread on this page: I don't know anything about the 2Ls, but most 3Ls I know have locked up employment in private practice or are going to clerk. Granted, I don't really talk about employment with other 3Ls because it's kind of a touchy subject if the person you ask doesn't have a job, so maybe all the people I don't know about are unemployed. I don't sense a general feeling of doom and gloom, though. I also don't really know anyone's class rank. USC releases only the top 10% cutoff, and I've never asked nor been asked about my GPA, so I really don't know who's in what percentile.

[JJDancer]

Hey USC students.

I'd like to know how 1L and 2L summer placements went this year. Anything you can share, enlighten us with?

Also, for 3L's how are the employment prospects shaping up for your class? What is the situation looking like for those who aren't in the top 30%?

Any thoughts/insights into the job market this year would be great. Thanks!

I think 1L placements have been great but 1L summer is not as important so keep that in mind. But I know many people who have externships and others with great PI positions that are unpaid but we have USC PILF grants that help cover that cost. Most people have their jobs at this point and those who dont are older students with connections or have some interviews/options in the works but I basically haven't talked to anyone that's worried about where they will work 1L summer.

I'm not as familiar with the 2Ls prospects.

3Ls - I think many of them got offers from their 2L summer jobs, most others got jobs in the fall but there are some people who have not secured employment. I've only spoken to one 3L who doesn't have a job offer and I think he/she will hold off on more extensive job search until after graduation and focus on passing the bar for now.

I think the 2Ls prospects are better than they were for the 3Ls and the 1Ls better than the 2Ls. It's not what it was in the "good old days" but there is an upswing.

HTH