Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

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Geist13
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby Geist13 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:10 pm

How was OCI at wake this year? I chose another school with a much smaller scholarship, did well got LR still struck out. Wondering what I missed out on at wake.

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tstyler98
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby tstyler98 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:32 pm

Geist13 wrote:How was OCI at wake this year? I chose another school with a much smaller scholarship, did well got LR still struck out. Wondering what I missed out on at wake.


I know several people who got job offers through OCI. But I also know several who didn't get anything. And there were a lot who either didn't even get interviews, or didn't even apply to interview.

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:55 pm

Geist13 wrote:How was OCI at wake this year? I chose another school with a much smaller scholarship, did well got LR still struck out. Wondering what I missed out on at wake.


Top 10% seems like they almost all have jobs, 10-20% did pretty well for the most part, 20-25% is hit or miss...anything below that is not good.

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AlexanderSupertramp
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby AlexanderSupertramp » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:20 pm

Watching this thread because I'm considering transferring to Wake. I should have just applied there in the first place. I'm pretty sure it's where I want to be.

wilhay
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby wilhay » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:13 am

Hey,

From what I've sort of gathered from reading around, Wake Law is more of a 'local' school. People from around NC go there and I don't know if that kills off diversity. Do I have the wrong impression?

Also what is the median/average age (whichever one you know) of Wake Law students? I would be coming straight out of undergrad. Are there at least some people who've done that there?

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Argyle Rocks
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby Argyle Rocks » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:56 am

wilhay wrote:Also what is the median/average age (whichever one you know) of Wake Law students? I would be coming straight out of undergrad. Are there at least some people who've done that there?

With regards to average age, the Wake Forest Law website says it is 24 years for the Class of 2014. I could be wrong, but I think this would be about the average age across many law schools? I'm pretty sure that there are some Wake Law students who went straight after undergrad.

(Source: http://admissions.law.wfu.edu/about/fast-facts/)

SteelyDan
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby SteelyDan » Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:21 am

wilhay wrote:From what I've sort of gathered from reading around, Wake Law is more of a 'local' school. People from around NC go there and I don't know if that kills off diversity. Do I have the wrong impression?

Not correct at all. I'm from NC and I think I might be in the minority in my class. At least half are from the southeast, but everyone else is from all over the place - lots from the tri-state, a few midwest, a few west. It's definitely not a local school.

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SherlockHolmes
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby SherlockHolmes » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:14 am

wilhay wrote:Hey,

From what I've sort of gathered from reading around, Wake Law is more of a 'local' school. People from around NC go there and I don't know if that kills off diversity. Do I have the wrong impression?

Also what is the median/average age (whichever one you know) of Wake Law students? I would be coming straight out of undergrad. Are there at least some people who've done that there?


First, Wake in my estimation is definitely not a local school. There's students from all over the country. Second, I'm pretty sure that the average age is close to 24-25 and a good amount have come straight from undergrad; myself included.

MrAnon
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby MrAnon » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:23 am

They over-accepted this year, so section sizes will be about 15 people larger than they should be when they dissolve the 5th section.


That's going to be really helpful around job search time to have all those extra people in your class.

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jdemmitt
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby jdemmitt » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:24 am

Wake grads get jobs all over the country. Mostly east coast but there is a lot of mobility. As for student make up, most are oos. I came from out west. We have a few people from California even.

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moandersen
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby moandersen » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:23 am

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:
Geist13 wrote:How was OCI at wake this year? I chose another school with a much smaller scholarship, did well got LR still struck out. Wondering what I missed out on at wake.


Top 10% seems like they almost all have jobs, 10-20% did pretty well for the most part, 20-25% is hit or miss...anything below that is not good.


I dont know enough people to disagree with this statement, but I saw a lot of LR people still wearing suits this past week....but maybe they were the ones that wrote on and not in the top 10%

From my limited view, if you were top 10 -15% and a good interviewer, you cleaned up - being on LR made no difference. But it is too hard to generalize IMO. I know someone top 15% with more offers than she/he knows what to do with out of OCI, and another person in top 15% who struggled to even get screeners at OCI.

As for the age of Wake students, I would say the majority are K-JDs, but there still is a good percentage that took a bunch of years off in between.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:22 am

moandersen wrote:
IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:
Geist13 wrote:How was OCI at wake this year? I chose another school with a much smaller scholarship, did well got LR still struck out. Wondering what I missed out on at wake.


Top 10% seems like they almost all have jobs, 10-20% did pretty well for the most part, 20-25% is hit or miss...anything below that is not good.


I dont know enough people to disagree with this statement, but I saw a lot of LR people still wearing suits this past week....but maybe they were the ones that wrote on and not in the top 10%

From my limited view, if you were top 10 -15% and a good interviewer, you cleaned up - being on LR made no difference. But it is too hard to generalize IMO. I know someone top 15% with more offers than she/he knows what to do with out of OCI, and another person in top 15% who struggled to even get screeners at OCI.


As for the age of Wake students, I would say the majority are K-JDs, but there still is a good percentage that took a bunch of years off in between.


agree w/ above.

I know someone whos 11-15% moot court, did not make law review. Multiple offers. A\lso know people on law review, top 5%, dozens of interviews no offer.

I think that if you are in top 15% with good personality, you a have a pretty good shot. But grades alone by no means guarantee you a spot. That can be good or bad, depending on your view.

I know in teh past few 3 or 4 years, wake has been pretty consistent in placing 15-20% in big law... closer the 15% ITE.

10% of class grades on to law review, and 10% write on (of course, for a write on spot, 2/3rds is your write on and 1/3 is your grade- so still people generally towards the top).

With 20% of class on LR, and only 15% or so going big law... clearly not everyone on law review is giong to make it.

I'm going to start getting to in the speculative category, so take what comes next with grain of salt, but if I'd have to guess, I would say that looking at the class as a whole in terms of nlj250 placement, looking at that 15% number:

10% are people from Lr who graded on (top 10% in class) OR who wrote on (probably closer to top 20-25%)

5% are people:
-with connections
-URM + other valuable thing (sorry, but anyone that thinks being URM alone gets a job is
silly... it helps you but you still need to work you ass off)
-top 35% or so in class ranking that absolutely hit it out of park at oci. I draw the line at
top 35% b/c thats about the cut off for most firms and interviewing at wake oci.

Therefore, with a law review of 20% of class, only 10% are probably going to end up or have already ended up nlj250. So thats half the LR class strike out. Thats also a big LR class though, and that is hope for those outside of LR.

Looking at stats online, the 15-20% has been this way for the past few years. Pre ITE, it was probably closer to 20-25%.

One last thing:
15-20% NLJ250 is very good placement compared to peer schools. I know that when I applied (2L), their nlj250 was beating out schools like UGA and UNC.

*phew*

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:04 pm

I think we're all saying the same thing. Of course there will be anecdotal exceptions where people either suck or rock at interviewing.

The only thing I would disagree with is:

top 35% or so in class ranking that absolutely hit it out of park at oci. I draw the line at
top 35% b/c thats about the cut off for most firms and interviewing at wake oci.


I'd draw that line closer to 20% or 25% w/WE. The first two rounds of OCI (where 80%+ of the NALP interviews took place) were much more selective than the later rounds. People below top quarter struggled to get screeners at more than a half dozen of the NLJ firms in first and biggest wave of interviews.

Study hard 1Ls.

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moandersen
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby moandersen » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:20 pm

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:I think we're all saying the same thing. Of course there will be anecdotal exceptions where people either suck or rock at interviewing.

The only thing I would disagree with is:

top 35% or so in class ranking that absolutely hit it out of park at oci. I draw the line at
top 35% b/c thats about the cut off for most firms and interviewing at wake oci.


I'd draw that line closer to 20% or 25% w/WE. The first two rounds of OCI (where 80%+ of the NALP interviews took place) were much more selective than the later rounds. People below top quarter struggled to get screeners at more than a half dozen of the NLJ firms in first and biggest wave of interviews.

Study hard 1Ls.


I agree that the cutoff for the NLJ250/boutique-type firms (RBH, Smith Anderson, Wyrick, etc) is closer to top 25% + WE/LR, if not top 20%. Even then, I feel like only those in the top 15% had a realistic shot at obtaining a CB for the most part due to the gpa cutoffs all the firms have.

However, I think the insurance firms (Hedrick, Cranfill, etc) were more lenient and gave screeners and CBs in more the 35% range.

The bolded above could not be more true, but you need to have the interview skills/personality to match. Top grades will give you the opportunity, but by no means are you biglaw secure.

Oh, and a follow up question to a discussion we had back in the summer: did skadden give any CBs? Just curious....

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:41 pm

moandersen wrote:I agree that the cutoff for the NLJ250/boutique-type firms (RBH, Smith Anderson, Wyrick, etc) is closer to top 25% + WE/LR, if not top 20%. Even then, I feel like only those in the top 15% had a realistic shot at obtaining a CB for the most part due to the gpa cutoffs all the firms have.

However, I think the insurance firms (Hedrick, Cranfill, etc) were more lenient and gave screeners and CBs in more the 35% range.

The bolded above could not be more true, but you need to have the interview skills/personality to match. Top grades will give you the opportunity, but by no means are you biglaw secure.

Oh, and a follow up question to a discussion we had back in the summer: did skadden give any CBs? Just curious....


Good point on the insurance firms. What Mo says about grades being necessary but not sufficient is also spot on. People who aren't social superstars absolutely need to take advantage of mock interviews and other opportunities over their 1L summer to make the most of their chances. Students like to trash on career services, but I have friends who absolutely shot themselves in the foot by having no clue how to write cover letters, having a sloppy resume, and not doing practice interviews. They didn't reach out for advice until the boat had sailed for most big firms.

Re Skadden- I know of 2 people who were offered CB's, but only one of them went on the CB (not sure if they converted).

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Argyle Rocks
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby Argyle Rocks » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:02 pm

Thanks for the honest input on OCI, everyone. It's refreshing to see some transparency.

With regards to the Top 20%/25% + WE/LR estimate (I realize that this isn't firm and is more of an approximation), what kind of work experience (I assume that "WE" refers to work experience) might be considered substantive enough to be part of the equation? In other words, what kinds of work experience might make a difference when it comes to OCI?

PirateCap'n
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby PirateCap'n » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:30 pm

SteelyDan wrote:
wilhay wrote:From what I've sort of gathered from reading around, Wake Law is more of a 'local' school. People from around NC go there and I don't know if that kills off diversity. Do I have the wrong impression?

Not correct at all. I'm from NC and I think I might be in the minority in my class. At least half are from the southeast, but everyone else is from all over the place - lots from the tri-state, a few midwest, a few west. It's definitely not a local school.


This ^. For the class of 2013, 70% of the class was from outside North Carolina. Maybe you're thinking of UNC, where closer to 80-90% of the class is from NC? Wake is about as far from a local school as you can get, and there's a good amount diversity both racially (as much as can be expected) and geographically.

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ArtVandeley
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby ArtVandeley » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:25 pm

MrAnon wrote:
They over-accepted this year, so section sizes will be about 15 people larger than they should be when they dissolve the 5th section.


That's going to be really helpful around job search time to have all those extra people in your class.

TROLLOLOLOL

wilhay wrote:Hey,

From what I've sort of gathered from reading around, Wake Law is more of a 'local' school. People from around NC go there and I don't know if that kills off diversity. Do I have the wrong impression?

Also what is the median/average age (whichever one you know) of Wake Law students? I would be coming straight out of undergrad. Are there at least some people who've done that there?


Wake IMO is very diverse, both in regards to ethinicity and region. I'd def say you have gotten the wrong impression about that. Also, I think the average age is around 23-24. I'm older, and I know many people who are, but I def know more 21-23 yr olds than people who are +25. There are plenty of people who just came out of undergrad, and plenty of people who act like theyre still there, in an awesome way (see: Bar Review).
That said, I love it here.

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tstyler98
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby tstyler98 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:59 pm

Argyle Rocks wrote:Thanks for the honest input on OCI, everyone. It's refreshing to see some transparency.

With regards to the Top 20%/25% + WE/LR estimate (I realize that this isn't firm and is more of an approximation), what kind of work experience (I assume that "WE" refers to work experience) might be considered substantive enough to be part of the equation? In other words, what kinds of work experience might make a difference when it comes to OCI?


Generally, work experience that will make a difference means a real job/career. I worked for the government and a consulting firm for a total of 7 years. Others have worked as accountants, were in the military, etc.

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Argyle Rocks
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby Argyle Rocks » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:00 pm

tstyler98 wrote:Generally, work experience that will make a difference means a real job/career. I worked for the government and a consulting firm for a total of 7 years. Others have worked as accountants, were in the military, etc.


Thanks for the response!

Ah, I see. I'm pretty sure this has been asked around many times, but for someone who plans to start law school in Fall 2012, would there be anything one can do between now and then that could boost the resume for OCI? My gut feeling is "no," but does anyone feel that interning at a small law firm (or volunteering at ACLU) for a few months before law school might hold any weight (again, in terms of OCI, and not necessarily in terms of law school admissions)? I did have a full-time job, but compared to the WE some can turn to, mine seems borderline trivial (although, somewhat helpful, since I at least have some WE).

I definitely don't want to steer this thread too far away from general Wake Law questions, but I thought it might be worth getting your opinions on this.

Many thanks in advance!

cph4life
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby cph4life » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:31 pm

I have kind of a weird question about Wake. Right now it's probably my top choice (if I get in, duh) but my biggest concern is the gay culture at Wake. I'm from the North, but spent the last 4 years in the South and know how restricted the gay scene is here. I kind of wanted to change that post-grad. So is there a strong gay presence at Wake and Winston-Salem in general? Are people pretty open to it, or is it a more conservative atmosphere?

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jdemmitt
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby jdemmitt » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:38 pm

There are some homosexual students here. There is a community outreach program for the LGBT community, and almost every professor has a sticker on their door right now that reads "this is a safe place" on a rainbow. So the community is pretty accepting, ya it is conservative, but no one seems to make a big deal about it. I dont recall any incidents taking place thus far. Word is there is a nice gay bar in the area that does karaoke too. Just sayin'.

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tstyler98
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby tstyler98 » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:40 am

cph4life wrote:I have kind of a weird question about Wake. Right now it's probably my top choice (if I get in, duh) but my biggest concern is the gay culture at Wake. I'm from the North, but spent the last 4 years in the South and know how restricted the gay scene is here. I kind of wanted to change that post-grad. So is there a strong gay presence at Wake and Winston-Salem in general? Are people pretty open to it, or is it a more conservative atmosphere?


There is also a professor who is gay and a very strong advocate. He taught a class on Sexual Identity and the Law this semester. I had him for Constitutional Law last year (though he usually doesn't teach it) and I loved his class. I know there is at least one gay bar but I don't know much about it. Like jdemmitt, I've never heard of any incidents at Wake or in W-S.

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NCtoDC
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby NCtoDC » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:22 pm

There was a gay-pride parade in the last 2 weeks downtown. Also, there was a protest in town against the gay-marriage ban in NC. So, while the area is typically conservative, there is definitely a LGBT community you can be a part of.

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DubPoker
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby DubPoker » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:16 am

Argyle Rocks wrote:[I plan] to start law school in Fall 2012, would there be anything one can do between now and then that could boost the resume for OCI? My gut feeling is "no," but does anyone feel that interning at a small law firm (or volunteering at ACLU) for a few months before law school might hold any weight (again, in terms of OCI, and not necessarily in terms of law school admissions)? I did have a full-time job, but compared to the WE some can turn to, mine seems borderline trivial (although, somewhat helpful, since I at least have some WE).


I'm a 1L who has not experienced OCI, but I've done some research. I believe your gut instinct is correct, not much you can do. I mean there are some things like learning how to interview better, or heck- your volunteering could be a good conversation piece for an interview, especially if you work with law relating to the practice of your interviewer. Although I think these are more "deal breaker" prevention, than affirmative help. A low percentage of people get jobs from OCI and I'm pretty sure it's based on your class rank.

The Law School application process is a super numbers oriented game, so are firms for the most part.

Now remember OCI isn't everything, these jobs you take can be great networking opportunities. You may find a place you want to end up working when you become a lawyer.

p.s. I love Wake so far. I feel like the program is top notch. Though I guess my opinion can change when job security starts breathing down my neck.




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