Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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moandersen
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby moandersen » Fri May 13, 2011 9:09 am

NCtoDC wrote:At ASD Melanie said that they had no plans to increase the size of the class even though they were gaining the extra space.....I guess time will tell.


Im not sure if she had any other option but to give that answer. From my conversation with someone in the know, its inevitable. Dont get me wrong, I hope its not true. I dont like the idea of expansion, but what are they going to do with a half empty building? To me the logical answer is that they will fill it.

Again, let me reiterate that I like WF and am glad I am here. I just thought it would be nice to give a more rounded viewpoint to 0Ls because thats what I would have wanted.

PirateCap'n
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby PirateCap'n » Fri May 13, 2011 1:53 pm

moandersen wrote:
NCtoDC wrote:At ASD Melanie said that they had no plans to increase the size of the class even though they were gaining the extra space.....I guess time will tell.


Im not sure if she had any other option but to give that answer. From my conversation with someone in the know, its inevitable. Dont get me wrong, I hope its not true. I dont like the idea of expansion, but what are they going to do with a half empty building? To me the logical answer is that they will fill it.

Again, let me reiterate that I like WF and am glad I am here. I just thought it would be nice to give a more rounded viewpoint to 0Ls because thats what I would have wanted.


My thought was that maybe they'll take some of the few large classes with 70-80 people (tax, biz orgs, etc) and break them up into several smaller classes of 30-40 people. I could definitely be wrong, but, since wake prides itself on having small classes and a low professor/student ratio, maybe they actually mean it when they say they just want to give folks more room rather than increase enrollment dramatically. Most things I've heard point to that being the case, but no one other than the administartion can say either way with any certainty (and I doubt they really know for sure yet).

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moandersen
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby moandersen » Fri May 13, 2011 2:10 pm

PirateCap'n wrote:My thought was that maybe they'll take some of the few large classes with 70-80 people (tax, biz orgs, etc) and break them up into several smaller classes of 30-40 people. I could definitely be wrong, but, since wake prides itself on having small classes and a low professor/student ratio, maybe they actually mean it when they say they just want to give folks more room rather than increase enrollment dramatically. Most things I've heard point to that being the case, but no one other than the administartion can say either way with any certainty (and I doubt they really know for sure yet).


Tax may be a class of the past after next year. Newman is retiring, and again from what I heard (so take it fwiw), not much is being done to find a replacement. And with making the typically large classes smaller (as you suggested), then you need to add more faculty, which means higher operating expenses, which to me means increased enrollment. Im must be jaded because I take everything the administration and faculty say with a grain of salt. Or maybe thats how law school is 'changing' me. Haha. Ok back to bluebooking...

PirateCap'n
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby PirateCap'n » Fri May 13, 2011 11:48 pm

moandersen wrote:
PirateCap'n wrote:My thought was that maybe they'll take some of the few large classes with 70-80 people (tax, biz orgs, etc) and break them up into several smaller classes of 30-40 people. I could definitely be wrong, but, since wake prides itself on having small classes and a low professor/student ratio, maybe they actually mean it when they say they just want to give folks more room rather than increase enrollment dramatically. Most things I've heard point to that being the case, but no one other than the administartion can say either way with any certainty (and I doubt they really know for sure yet).


Tax may be a class of the past after next year. Newman is retiring, and again from what I heard (so take it fwiw), not much is being done to find a replacement. And with making the typically large classes smaller (as you suggested), then you need to add more faculty, which means higher operating expenses, which to me means increased enrollment. Im must be jaded because I take everything the administration and faculty say with a grain of salt. Or maybe thats how law school is 'changing' me. Haha. Ok back to bluebooking...


No idea. I know that there is another professor that teaches the 3 hour tax course in the spring. I kind of assumed that he would take Newman's place. As with other stuff, I could definitely be wrong though. As for the increased number of professors, I figured that they would just have the same professor teach the classes at different times (e.g. Newman teaching two 40 person tax classes rather than one 80 person class) since most professors have no more than 2 courses per semester (seems that most only have one). Of course, you're correct that it would increase costs whether they did that or hired new professors. While I think it's possible that there might be a small increase in enrollment, I don't think it will be anything dramatic. 200 people or so in the incoming class wouldn't dilute the small, community feeling at Wake. It would be about one more section, and I really don't think the effects would be that bad. Either way, I think it will be a while before the business school building is actually completed and the business school moves out won't it? I doubt they'll ever move out while we're there, and I'd be pretty surprised if they move out while the class of 2014 is there.

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NCtoDC
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby NCtoDC » Thu May 19, 2011 5:19 pm

So, for those of us coming to house hunt...which bars should we be sure to visit?

NarwhalPunter
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby NarwhalPunter » Fri May 20, 2011 12:56 pm

If you're taking a cab and want to be in an area where you can walk from bar to bar, then 4th Street downtown is your best bet. Tate's (slightly more upscale), Rec Billiards (beer only, no liquor), Foothills Brewery, etc. are all decent places within a block or two of each other.

The Tap in West End is a bar which usually has a group of law students there on any given night, and you can also walk to West End Opera House.

Finnegan's Wake downtown is also a decent bar. However, it's a little far to walk from most 4th street bars and there's not much else close by.

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NCtoDC
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby NCtoDC » Fri May 20, 2011 10:33 pm

Thanks!

Northeast
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby Northeast » Mon May 23, 2011 12:31 pm

How was OCI at Wake?

Do Wake students have any shot at DC?

What are current students doing for summer work?

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girlonfire
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby girlonfire » Mon May 23, 2011 5:28 pm

anyone have any idea how WFU students do in Richmond, Va??

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tstyler98
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby tstyler98 » Mon May 23, 2011 8:33 pm

Northeast wrote:How was OCI at Wake?

Do Wake students have any shot at DC?

What are current students doing for summer work?


I'm not sure how OCI went for Wake. I know people did it, but I'm not sure what the results were. I think a lot of people found jobs on their own. Unless you go to a top school or are ranked pretty high, OCI is probably not going to help you much. But it is still possible to find jobs by being proactive and looking outside of OCI.

I am working at Legal Aid here in Winston-Salem. I know other students who are working in firms, for professors, for judges, etc.

As for DC placement, please read whenpigsfly's post near the top of this page, as she addressed this very question from someone else.

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tstyler98
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby tstyler98 » Mon May 23, 2011 8:35 pm

girlonfire wrote:anyone have any idea how WFU students do in Richmond, Va??


I'm not sure specifically, but if you already have connections to Richmond, it shouldn't be a problem. And even if you don't, NC seems to place well in the surrounding states. And the Dean is very proactive about spreading Wake's name across the country.

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girlonfire
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby girlonfire » Mon May 23, 2011 8:46 pm

you guys have been so helpful... thanks.

will any of you be @ HH??

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whenpigsfly
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby whenpigsfly » Mon May 23, 2011 9:50 pm

girlonfire wrote:anyone have any idea how WFU students do in Richmond, Va??


I second what tstyler said. I know of one 3L (or recent grad I guess would be the correct terminology now! Scary!) that has a small/mid-sized firm job lined up. I remember a few Richmond firms at my OCI two years ago, so it is doable, especially with connections to the area.

And I will not be at House Hunt, as I will be Bar studying. But you guys will have a lot of fun. It certainly is nice to show up in August knowing some people. I know it made the transition a little more comfortable for me.

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tstyler98
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby tstyler98 » Tue May 24, 2011 11:51 am

girlonfire wrote:you guys have been so helpful... thanks.

will any of you be @ HH??


I'm not sure yet. My boyfriend and I are trying to go camping nearby that weekend. But, if I end up staying in town, I'll let you know. I'd love to meet you guys.

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girlonfire
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby girlonfire » Tue May 24, 2011 7:49 pm

TSTyler, I'm sure we'd all love to meet you, too. We 0L's owe you guys ITT a couple of cold ones, for sure. :mrgreen:

Did any of you read GTM, LSConfidential or any other common 0L prep book? If so, did you find them helpful??
We got an email today from Career Services naming 3 books we should read over the summer:
Legal Specialties
Guerilla Tactics for Getting the Legal Job of Your Dreams

and
What Do I Say Next? Talking Your Way to Business and Social Success


Has anyone read any of these?

Basically I'm just trying to find out what YOU guys read and what was worth the time... There's a lot of book advice on TLS, but I'd really like to hear it from TT...

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tstyler98
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby tstyler98 » Tue May 24, 2011 8:45 pm

girlonfire wrote:TSTyler, I'm sure we'd all love to meet you, too. We 0L's owe you guys ITT a couple of cold ones, for sure. :mrgreen:

Did any of you read GTM, LSConfidential or any other common 0L prep book? If so, did you find them helpful??
We got an email today from Career Services naming 3 books we should read over the summer:
Legal Specialties
Guerilla Tactics for Getting the Legal Job of Your Dreams

and
What Do I Say Next? Talking Your Way to Business and Social Success


Has anyone read any of these?

Basically I'm just trying to find out what YOU guys read and what was worth the time... There's a lot of book advice on TLS, but I'd really like to hear it from TT...


I read GTM, LSConfidential, and Planet Law School. They were helpful, but not necessary. The biggest thing that helped me was understanding from day one that it was all about the exam and learning how to take a law school exam. It's easy to get caught up in the day-to-day of reading cases, etc., but for all your 1L classes, your grade is 100% based on a final exam, which is anonymous.

I read Guerrilla Tactics. It is a huge book, but I found it pretty helpful. The author goes through ways to work towards getting a job, whether you're, for example, fresh out of undergrad, a former stay-at-home parent, or a career changer.

I talked to the boyfriend, and we might try to go camping the following weekend instead, so it looks like I'll be around for HH. I would definitely be interested in meeting up with you all while you're out on the town Saturday night. Will a few of you PM me and we'll exchange numbers so that you can text me where you're at that night?

NarwhalPunter
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby NarwhalPunter » Tue May 24, 2011 8:46 pm

I read GTM, PLSII, and Law School Confidential before coming to Wake last Fall. Additionally, I skimmed through a couple of E&E's and did the first part of LEEWS. My thoughts on what was useful:

Getting to Maybe was a gold mine. Law school tests are likely different from anything you experienced in undergrad, and IMO this book does the very best job of showing you the mindset necessary for dissecting a 1L exam. Many of my classmates knew the BLL as well as I did heading into an exam, but they got hung up on finding the one "right" solution to the hypothetical rather than arguing both sides of each issue and examining all the potential outcomes. As a result, they spotted most of the issues, but only got half of the points available on that issue because they only argued the side they thought looked like the winner. I would strongly encourage at least reading the first hundred pages or so of this book before Fall semester.

PLSII was absolute crap in my opinion. It's long, boring, and you absolutely despise the author after the first fifty pages (or less). A lot of what he talks about is greatly exaggerated and this book could have been easily summed up in about 80 pages instead of 800.

Law School Confidential is a decent read, but if you are choosing between it and GTM, DEFINITELY choose Getting to Maybe. Much more substantively helpful information rather than just a quasi-interesting page turner.

The E&E's were minimally helpful in my opinion (keep in mind reading these as a 0L is a very hotly debated topic on TLS- there is no right answer). They may have helped a little, but it probably wasn't worth the time investment. Additionally, I never actually used E&E's during the semester- the casebooks contained everything I needed in my classes. Additionally, LEEWS was largely a non-factor for me, especially after reading GTM.

The only other book on your list that I have any knowledge of is Guerilla Tactics. I'm currently reading this as a student who just finished 1L. While it definitely can't hurt for you to read it now, I would consider reading it over XMas break or the summer after 1L. Networking will likely be a crucial aspect of your job hunt, but there is so much else going on during 1L that I feel like it is more beneficial to focus the bulk of your energy on grades.

Take all of the above with a grain of salt. What's helpful to one student is often worthless to another and vice versa. However, I do feel that GTM played a significant role in my first semester success (comfortably within top 10%) at Wake.

Good luck and remember to enjoy your last summer before law school. I can promise you'll miss the lazy days by the pool once the semester begins.

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NCtoDC
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby NCtoDC » Tue May 24, 2011 9:49 pm

Thank you all for the advice. tstyler, I'm excited to get to hang out with you :-) PM is on the way.

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girlonfire
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby girlonfire » Tue May 24, 2011 11:47 pm

NarwhalPunter wrote:I read GTM, PLSII, and Law School Confidential before coming to Wake last Fall. Additionally, I skimmed through a couple of E&E's and did the first part of LEEWS. My thoughts on what was useful:

Getting to Maybe was a gold mine. Law school tests are likely different from anything you experienced in undergrad, and IMO this book does the very best job of showing you the mindset necessary for dissecting a 1L exam. Many of my classmates knew the BLL as well as I did heading into an exam, but they got hung up on finding the one "right" solution to the hypothetical rather than arguing both sides of each issue and examining all the potential outcomes. As a result, they spotted most of the issues, but only got half of the points available on that issue because they only argued the side they thought looked like the winner. I would strongly encourage at least reading the first hundred pages or so of this book before Fall semester.

PLSII was absolute crap in my opinion. It's long, boring, and you absolutely despise the author after the first fifty pages (or less). A lot of what he talks about is greatly exaggerated and this book could have been easily summed up in about 80 pages instead of 800.

Law School Confidential is a decent read, but if you are choosing between it and GTM, DEFINITELY choose Getting to Maybe. Much more substantively helpful information rather than just a quasi-interesting page turner.

The E&E's were minimally helpful in my opinion (keep in mind reading these as a 0L is a very hotly debated topic on TLS- there is no right answer). They may have helped a little, but it probably wasn't worth the time investment. Additionally, I never actually used E&E's during the semester- the casebooks contained everything I needed in my classes. Additionally, LEEWS was largely a non-factor for me, especially after reading GTM.

The only other book on your list that I have any knowledge of is Guerilla Tactics. I'm currently reading this as a student who just finished 1L. While it definitely can't hurt for you to read it now, I would consider reading it over XMas break or the summer after 1L. Networking will likely be a crucial aspect of your job hunt, but there is so much else going on during 1L that I feel like it is more beneficial to focus the bulk of your energy on grades.

Take all of the above with a grain of salt. What's helpful to one student is often worthless to another and vice versa. However, I do feel that GTM played a significant role in my first semester success (comfortably within top 10%) at Wake.

Good luck and remember to enjoy your last summer before law school. I can promise you'll miss the lazy days by the pool once the semester begins.

well done! Congrats!! & thanks for all the advice!!!

tyler, I pmed ya.

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tstyler98
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby tstyler98 » Wed May 25, 2011 7:40 am

Here is some advice for you guys of things to do that will help you (that I either heard from others or found out along the way).

1. Sign up for a 2L/3L-led study group. Early on in your 1st semester, you will have a meeting where you are told about ASP. It's a school run study program. One of the things that is offered is study groups led by 2Ls or 3Ls who did well in the class. There is usually one for every course for every section (i.e., one for Contracts 1 for section 1, and one for Contracts 1 for section 2, etc.). The groups are only 4-5 1Ls, so if you're interested, don't wait to sign up.

Each group is different but most are set up to give you advice on taking that professor's exam and doing practice problems (varies depending on the type of exam the professor gives). Although the class is specific to that course, I found that the skills I learned about taking an exam helped me in all of my other classes.

Although you can only sign up for one group each semester, you could form a group of 4 from your section and have each of you sign up for a different group.

2. Talk to your TAs. Each of you will have four TAs in your Legal Writing class. In most cases, they had the same professors as you when you were a 1L. (This is not always the case. I was in section 4 last year, but will be TAing in section 2. However, I did have a few of the same professors.) The TAs are a great resource for finding out about your professors, how to prepare for their exam, and what their exam is like. However, even when your TA didn't have your professor, they know other students who did and can find out from them and relay it to you.

3. Sign up for Phi Alpha Delta (PAD). PAD is the group that runs the House Hunt, and is a legal fraternity. I think it was almost $100 to sign up (just a 1-time cost), but it was very useful when it came to preparing for exams. Each semester before exams, PAD will hold an information session for members only where they gave advice about taking exams for each professor. It was really helpful, especially if you are in sections 3 or 4 and have Walker for Civil Procedure 1. But, it was also really helpful for other classes as well.

That's all I can think of now.

placencia
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby placencia » Thu May 26, 2011 8:12 am

My opinions are in stark contrast to several people who have posted.

I read all of the E & Es over my 0L summer, and I would recommend doing it to everyone. I am planning on reading the E & Es for all of my classes next semester this summer, and I have talked with several friends, and we all agree this is the right move (if it matters, we all did extremely well). It's not about learning the material from the E & Es (although you probably could in certain situations...I would peruse the supplements over the course of the semester and reread each one entirely in the study period before each exam), it's about preparing you with the vocabulary and the framework for what you will be getting into. I knew about topics before they were introduced, I could see the larger framework of the course from the beginning, and I was able to understand the minutiae.

It's easy to say not to read them if you never did it, but for those who actually read them cover to cover before going to the classes, I don't know of anyone personally who wouldn't do it again. You have several months and nothing to do, any way you can cut down on what you're going to be learning for the first time once in school is an advantage.

Additionally, I highly recommend LEEWS. I got it and completed it over my 0L summer and then reviewed it several times over the course of the year, and it definitely paid off, even though only about half of my exams even used that style.

I probably read a dozen or more books before school, including GTM, the Complete Law School Companion, Law School: Getting In, Getting Good, Getting the Gold. Those books are always good to provide you with an overview, but other than GTM, I wouldn't say any are truly essential.

If I had to boil down my advice, it would be to read the E & Es, complete LEEWS, read GTM and maybe one or two other books...the point is that everyone sees things differently, but I don't think you can read too much, and the only two things that will actually save you time once you get to school are the E & Es (because it covers substantive material you will have to learn anyway) and LEEWS (because it is a good blueprint for how to deal with law school exams, even if you don't end up and follow it entirely).

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moandersen
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby moandersen » Thu May 26, 2011 6:17 pm

placencia wrote:My opinions are in stark contrast to several people who have posted.

I read all of the E & Es over my 0L summer, and I would recommend doing it to everyone. I am planning on reading the E & Es for all of my classes next semester this summer, and I have talked with several friends, and we all agree this is the right move (if it matters, we all did extremely well). It's not about learning the material from the E & Es (although you probably could in certain situations...I would peruse the supplements over the course of the semester and reread each one entirely in the study period before each exam), it's about preparing you with the vocabulary and the framework for what you will be getting into. I knew about topics before they were introduced, I could see the larger framework of the course from the beginning, and I was able to understand the minutiae.

It's easy to say not to read them if you never did it, but for those who actually read them cover to cover before going to the classes, I don't know of anyone personally who wouldn't do it again. You have several months and nothing to do, any way you can cut down on what you're going to be learning for the first time once in school is an advantage.

Additionally, I highly recommend LEEWS. I got it and completed it over my 0L summer and then reviewed it several times over the course of the year, and it definitely paid off, even though only about half of my exams even used that style.

I probably read a dozen or more books before school, including GTM, the Complete Law School Companion, Law School: Getting In, Getting Good, Getting the Gold. Those books are always good to provide you with an overview, but other than GTM, I wouldn't say any are truly essential.

If I had to boil down my advice, it would be to read the E & Es, complete LEEWS, read GTM and maybe one or two other books...the point is that everyone sees things differently, but I don't think you can read too much, and the only two things that will actually save you time once you get to school are the E & Es (because it covers substantive material you will have to learn anyway) and LEEWS (because it is a good blueprint for how to deal with law school exams, even if you don't end up and follow it entirely).


0Ls, this is your definition of a gunner. I dont mean that in a negative way though. Placencia worked really hard and it paid off. Though I know of people who did not work nearly as hard before school and are around top 10%. It all depends on what your goals/priorities are. If you want to maximize you chance of top 10%, then I would suggest following most of what placencia did.

I read GTM and LSC. GTM was great for understanding IRAC, and how when profs say they want IRAC, they really want something slightly different. I thought LSC was also a great read (as did my wife) because it gave me an idea of what law school would be like. GTM is like reading a textbook IMO, while LSC was a much more casual read.

While my grades arent as impressive as others, I am still within the range I set out to be in (pending second semester grades :? ), so take my advice FWIW. However, I do have a 1L SA, and will be a TA for my writing prof next year.

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NCtoDC
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby NCtoDC » Thu May 26, 2011 10:15 pm

Mo- care to share how you landed an SA job as a 1L?

PirateCap'n
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby PirateCap'n » Sun May 29, 2011 1:12 am

I agree Mo. To each his own I guess. By now, pretty much everyone should know what study methods work for him/her. Nothing is really going to prepare anyone for law school. It's not as bad as some people make it out to be, but it's still very different than what most people are used to. Once classes begin, you'll get the hang of it quickly. While some of the books are decent for giving you some idea of what to expect, I definitely think it is a ridiculous waste of time to spend the last true summer you'll ever have gunning by spending every waking hour in a prep book that likely won't make much difference at all. Again though, to each his own.

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NCtoDC
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Re: Wake Law Students taking Questions!!!

Postby NCtoDC » Mon May 30, 2011 1:30 pm

Any of you have any insight into the Sugar Creek/Trace apartment complexes?




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