Columbia 1L Taking Questions (Class of '11) Forum

[NewHere]

Lenfest housing is expensive enough to be available basically to anyone who wants it.

There's a ton of info on this site on Columbia housing if you do a search. It's not that I don't want to answer this question, but I don't feel like typing the whole thing again and again and again.

As for declining: you can say "no", and it puts you at the bottom of the pile. If there's something left after everyone else has received a housing offer, they might give you another option. Or you can find something yourself. But as 00TREX says, good luck with that.

[daisyduck]

Lenfest housing is expensive enough to be available basically to anyone who wants it.

There's a ton of info on this site on Columbia housing if you do a search. It's not that I don't want to answer this question, but I don't feel like typing the whole thing again and again and again.

As for declining: you can say "no", and it puts you at the bottom of the pile. If there's something left after everyone else has received a housing offer, they might give you another option. Or you can find something yourself. But as 00TREX says, good luck with that.

lol my bad, i should've done the obvious research first. thanks for all your answers!

[southernlady]

I am on hold at Columbia, and am dropping off my LOCI this Thursday.

I was going to visit a class as well, and according to the schedule I see 2 first year classes that would fit my schedule as well. Both are constitutional law, but have different profs - Persily and Goluboff. Which would you suggest visiting?

Thanks.

On hold as well, and I was considering visiting on Saturday since I will be in town to go to the NYU ASW. Is there anything going on worth seeing? Are there tours on Saturdays?

[huckabees]

I am on hold at Columbia, and am dropping off my LOCI this Thursday.

I was going to visit a class as well, and according to the schedule I see 2 first year classes that would fit my schedule as well. Both are constitutional law, but have different profs - Persily and Goluboff. Which would you suggest visiting?

Thanks.

On hold as well, and I was considering visiting on Saturday since I will be in town to go to the NYU ASW. Is there anything going on worth seeing? Are there tours on Saturdays?

Wow, I cannot believe you are on hold. You have ridiculously good numbers and have gotten into great schools already as well...

[southernlady]

I am on hold at Columbia, and am dropping off my LOCI this Thursday.

I was going to visit a class as well, and according to the schedule I see 2 first year classes that would fit my schedule as well. Both are constitutional law, but have different profs - Persily and Goluboff. Which would you suggest visiting?

Thanks.

On hold as well, and I was considering visiting on Saturday since I will be in town to go to the NYU ASW. Is there anything going on worth seeing? Are there tours on Saturdays?

Wow, I cannot believe you are on hold. You have ridiculously good numbers and have gotten into great schools already as well...

Thanks! I am a bit sad about it, but I am hoping that my LOCI and updated grades and resume will push me into the accepted pile! I figure a visit could not hurt anything except my feelings if I get super excited and then rejected, haha.

[huckabees]

Thanks! I am a bit sad about it, but I am hoping that my LOCI and updated grades and resume will push me into the accepted pile! I figure a visit could not hurt anything except my feelings if I get super excited and then rejected, haha.

My sentiments exactly.

Good luck, guys.

Is there any reason both of you are really wanting CLS even after getting into NYU?

[M51]

Come to my con-law class! Total blast. Goluboff is ridiculous (in a good way).

Plus, we're covering to progeny of Brown right now, so lots of cases and concepts you should already be familar with. Gonna be lots of stuff about race, i.e. Loving v Virginia on Thursday.

[00TREX00]

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[pretzel21]

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[yqsong]

just got back from columbia admitted student program....i was very IMPRESSED, by the the facility, the events, and the free wine of course!

For every student who I talked to, I asked him/her how the economy has impacted him/her, most of them are doing alrite, except a 3L had a defered start date.

the mock class was...a bit nerve-wrecking...i got prof. ferguson (can't spell), he was calling on people and asked like 98734879543 questions...one girl got asked twice, and she just gave up and said she didn't know the answer...

oh boy..

I have a question for all of you about the housing. I am not fully committed to columbia yet, but if i apply for housing now and they assign an apartment to me, how long can I wait before the assignment expires?

[NewHere]

They tell you in the assignment. I think they give you about a week or so, maybe a bit less.

[NewHere]

1) Do students participate in organizations in their 1L year? Like moot court or mock trial?

Sure, very many do. Some participate in multiple organizations. There are special-interest groups on a lot of topics (politics, human rights, animal rights, real estate, Chinese law, etc.), heritage/background groups (Black law students, Latino law students, Jewish law students, South-Asian law students, Californian law students, Texan law students, etc. etc. etc. etc.) Then there are moot court organizations, one journal that takes 1Ls, and various other organizations.

2) How does the moot court thing work, anyway? I hear that it's required for 1Ls in the spring, but we can choose to join a team earlier in the year instead of taking the moot court class. What kinds of teams are there, and are there levels of "prestige" among the moot court teams?

All 1Ls have to take legal writing in Fall and Spring. As part of this course in the Spring, everyone participates in the foundation moot court. However, it's also possible to join one of the 'specialized' moot courts (International Law, Native American, there are a few others), which start a bit earlier in the year and require an application. If you join one of these, you don't have to do the foundation moot court as part of the writing course.

As for prestige, the specialized ones add a line to your resume. I don't really know about the relative prestige of the various types of moot court, and I doubt that employers do. However, if you know that you want to do international law, for example, joining an international moot court group may prove that interest to employers. Also, in specialized moot courts you compete against teams from other schools in multiple rounds, and if you win a prize, or make it to an advanced round, that's another thing that looks good on your resume.


I'll leave your third question to M51, who is a current 1L. (I'm a 2L.)

[TIMLAW4151]

Thanks! I am a bit sad about it, but I am hoping that my LOCI and updated grades and resume will push me into the accepted pile! I figure a visit could not hurt anything except my feelings if I get super excited and then rejected, haha.

My sentiments exactly.

Good luck, guys.

Is there any reason both of you are really wanting CLS even after getting into NYU?

Thanks so much.

For me, it's a good bit about location. If I go to Columbia, I can live with my SO for free and save money. If I go to NYU, it's pretty likely we'll have to get 2 places (one by his job, and one nearish to NYU) for 1L, which is expensive and borderline not affordable. I am going to see how long the commute actually is from various places while I am there (i.e. ride around on subway/trains), but I don't know if we can find a reasonable in between place - his job is WAYYY out of the city and we're trying to limit both commutes to 45 min each way, at least for 1L. We're worried about me not having enough time to study if it's much longer than that.

There are some other things I like about Columbia too - interested in learning more about this law and technology program they have and some related student organizations. But saving monies is naturally important as well.

Where does he work? It takes that much longer to get to Columbia than it does NYU from outside the city? It seems the opposite cuz nyu is easily accessible, whereas Columbia is wayyyy uptown.

[NewHere]

Well, she says "his job is WAYYY out of the city". If that's on the North side of the city, then a place halfway between his work and Columbia will result in a shorter commute for both than a place halfway between his work and NYU.

[Snooker]

I am on hold at Columbia, and am dropping off my LOCI this Thursday.

I was going to visit a class as well, and according to the schedule I see 2 first year classes that would fit my schedule as well. Both are constitutional law, but have different profs - Persily and Goluboff. Which would you suggest visiting?

Thanks.

On hold as well, and I was considering visiting on Saturday since I will be in town to go to the NYU ASW. Is there anything going on worth seeing? Are there tours on Saturdays?

Wow, I cannot believe you are on hold. You have ridiculously good numbers and have gotten into great schools already as well...

Thanks! I am a bit sad about it, but I am hoping that my LOCI and updated grades and resume will push me into the accepted pile! I figure a visit could not hurt anything except my feelings if I get super excited and then rejected, haha.

The gpa is very good. The LSAT gets too much weight at Columbia imo, so the pass on a lot of really qualified applicants with good GPAs. Their LSAT range looks like Stanford's, but their admits are nowhere near as qualified as theirs are, because the GPA range is so much lower, and GPA is much more important than LSAT, studies show.

Stanford's 25th GPA is around what the top 10% of the top 100 colleges, lumped together, would have afaik, Columbia's is more like top 20%-30%. Stanford takes top 5% of LSAT scorers, Columbia top 2.5% on the percentile scale.

Columbia admits for prestige (perception) at the expense of ability (reality). A disservice to the law school and a disservice to you. But I've heard Columbia is the most a cutthroat, big-law, grades obsessed, prestige whore environment among law schools.

[NewHere]

Columbia admits for prestige (perception) at the expense of ability (reality). A disservice to the law school and a disservice to you. But I've heard Columbia is the most a cutthroat, big-law, grades obsessed, prestige whore environment among law schools.

I'd advise you to read this thread.

And what you say about GPA being a better predictor than LSAT scores is simply not true. Studies have shown that neither LSAT nor GPA is a good predictor of law-school success. The combination of the two, however, is.

[legends159]

Is there any reason both of you are really wanting CLS even after getting into NYU?

Not directly at Amy/Southern but I think the reason is b/c Columbia has much better lay prestige. Plus, it is one rank higher and people are naturally greedy.

[doyleoil]

The gpa is very good. The LSAT gets too much weight at Columbia imo, so the pass on a lot of really qualified applicants with good GPAs. Their LSAT range looks like Stanford's, but their admits are nowhere near as qualified as theirs are, because the GPA range is so much lower, and GPA is much more important than LSAT, studies show.

Stanford's 25th GPA is around what the top 10% of the top 100 colleges, lumped together, would have afaik, Columbia's is more like top 20%-30%. Stanford takes top 5% of LSAT scorers, Columbia top 2.5% on the percentile scale.

Columbia admits for prestige (perception) at the expense of ability (reality). A disservice to the law school and a disservice to you. But I've heard Columbia is the most a cutthroat, big-law, grades obsessed, prestige whore environment among law schools.

who the hell is this dude, and what is this ridiculous gpa argument he is making? - more importantly, how did he find it to be his place to judge the qualified-ness of columbia versus stanford admits?

not that whoever he's responding to shouldn't get into columbia (she probably should) - but still - just ridiculous

[southernlady]

Is there any reason both of you are really wanting CLS even after getting into NYU?

Not directly at Amy/Southern but I think the reason is b/c Columbia has much better lay prestige. Plus, it is one rank higher and people are naturally greedy.

I am actually very interested in both. I do not yet prefer one over the other, but I just finished my NYU visit and I really liked it. It would probably come down to financial aid for me, if there was any!

[M51]

Hi! Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. Reading this thread alone has put me at least about starting law school in the fall.

I plan to start at CLS this coming year and I have a few questions about student activities:

1) Do students participate in organizations in their 1L year? Like moot court or mock trial?

2) How does the moot court thing work, anyway? I hear that it's required for 1Ls in the spring, but we can choose to join a team earlier in the year instead of taking the moot court class. What kinds of teams are there, and are there levels of "prestige" among the moot court teams?

3) What does your typical 1L student's week look like?

Thanks!

1./2. Yes. You have to do a moot court, either a special one first semester (that you have to try out for in the beginning of the year...) or the Foundational Moot Court second semester. I know nothing about the specialized moot courts, people who have done them either loved it or hated it. It's a lot of work, but it's 1st semester, when you only have 3 classes, as opposed to 2nd semester when you have 4 and are trying to find a job, so that's something. There's also a whole lot of other clubs and organizations that you can join (both social and academic), or even become "1L representatives" of.

3. First month is a cakewalk pass/fail class that teaches you really basic stuff like "how to write a case brief" and "what to read for in a case" and you have all the time in the world to do whatever you want (you'll find plenty of people out every night of the week). The 3 months after that you have 3 classes which each meet for 3 days for 1:20 each, and 1 class which meets for 1 hour each week. Then, there's a non-mandatory 50min long TA-session for two of your three classes where the TA basically writes your outline for you, does some hypos, etc (it's pretty helpful as a transition thing). Assuming you go to all the TA sessions, and all the classes, that's ~15 hours per week. You generally have to do an hour's worth of assigned reading for each hour of class, so if decide you're gonna read the casebook, that's 30 hours per week. At some time before finals, you're gonna have to outline each class, which takes ~20 hours each (maybe more if you're crazy meticulous or slow). You'll also have to do at least a handful of past tests for each class, which take ~1 hour each (so ~20 hours total). I went out 5-6 nights a week in August, 4 nights a week in September/October, and 1-2 nights a week in November/December. I felt like I was ahead of the game the entire time with outlining and what not, and it got to the point that when finals prep week came around, there were days I did nothing but watch movies/tv because I ran out of useful practice tests. It's not crazy competitive, it's not an unbearable amount of work (certainly less work than a real job, more work than college if you didn't do engineering), and there's no direct relation between the # of hours you put in and the grade you get at the end... so really, no need to stress it.

[pretzel21]

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[TIMLAW4151]

Well, she says "his job is WAYYY out of the city". If that's on the North side of the city, then a place halfway between his work and Columbia will result in a shorter commute for both than a place halfway between his work and NYU.

Yes, north, and then north some more.

I guess I was thinking if you took the train in from outside the city it wouldn't be that much longer to nyu than columbia, cuz most trains end up in midtown area, sort of between both. Penn, Grand Central, Path. But if you drive different story....

[UnknownElementX]

Another question for Columbia students. how do you feel the Columbia name alters the school experience. It seemed to me that the ivy league thing seemed to make professors more reserved and less student friendly and made some of the students a little more reserved/snobby(not really snobby, as that is a bit strong, but I assume you get my drift). how have your experiences been?

[00TREX00]

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[M51]

Another question for Columbia students. how do you feel the Columbia name alters the school experience. It seemed to me that the ivy league thing seemed to make professors more reserved and less student friendly and made some of the students a little more reserved/snobby(not really snobby, as that is a bit strong, but I assume you get my drift). how have your experiences been?

Between the combination of picking CLS over NYU because of the name, and picking CLS over NYU because it's NOT in the village... yeah it'll affect a significant % of the incoming class. I'm sure if you can turn reserved/snobby into a #, CLSs will be higher on avg than NYU's. But, with ~400 people around in the 1L class alone, you'll end up finding many different types of people in both schools.

As for the professors, I don't think it makes a difference. The professors I've had ranged from warm and fuzzy to super-intimidating with a lot of middle ground.