Cornell 1L taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
redsox550
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:15 am

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby redsox550 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:12 pm

5% - 3.84 10% - 3.80


Now compare this to last year:

For the graduating Class of 2012, the gpa cut off for magna cum laude was 3.70 and for cum laude was 3.53.[/quote

Plus, last semester,

Class of 2014 [three semesters]:
5% - 3.89 10% - 3.81


So the top 10% cut-off has gone from a 3.7 to a 3.81 between the graduating classes of 2012 and 2013. The top 5% has gone from 3.84 in my year to 3.89 in your year. Both of those figures are likely to be higher for your year once you graduate. If that's not grade inflation, I don't know what is.[/quote]

Isn't this due to the change in the grading policy that happened then.

User avatar
Lincoln
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Lincoln » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:20 pm

redsox550 wrote:
5% - 3.84 10% - 3.80


Now compare this to last year:

For the graduating Class of 2012, the gpa cut off for magna cum laude was 3.70 and for cum laude was 3.53.[/quote

Plus, last semester,

Class of 2014 [three semesters]:
5% - 3.89 10% - 3.81


So the top 10% cut-off has gone from a 3.7 to a 3.81 between the graduating classes of 2012 and 2013. The top 5% has gone from 3.84 in my year to 3.89 in your year. Both of those figures are likely to be higher for your year once you graduate. If that's not grade inflation, I don't know what is.


Isn't this due to the change in the grading policy that happened then.


To a large extent, yes. Moreover, the grading policy is more generous than what the official policy states. Courses are basically graded to a 3.5. I can't think of a class last semester that was graded to the lower end of the range. But it doesn't quite explain why it keeps increasing (i.e. from class of 2013 to 2014), except I think there's some pressure from the administration to inflate grades because there's a perception, probably accurate, that leads to (short term) improvements in hiring statistics.

Edited for tech-edit fail.

redsox550
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:15 am

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby redsox550 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:02 pm

Lincoln wrote:
redsox550 wrote:
5% - 3.84 10% - 3.80


Now compare this to last year:

For the graduating Class of 2012, the gpa cut off for magna cum laude was 3.70 and for cum laude was 3.53.[/quote

Plus, last semester,

Class of 2014 [three semesters]:
5% - 3.89 10% - 3.81


So the top 10% cut-off has gone from a 3.7 to a 3.81 between the graduating classes of 2012 and 2013. The top 5% has gone from 3.84 in my year to 3.89 in your year. Both of those figures are likely to be higher for your year once you graduate. If that's not grade inflation, I don't know what is.


Isn't this due to the change in the grading policy that happened then.


To a large extent, yes. Moreover, the grading policy is more generous than what the official policy states. Courses are basically graded to a 3.5. I can't think of a class last semester that was graded to the lower end of the range. But it doesn't quite explain why it keeps increasing (i.e. from class of 2013 to 2014), except I think there's some pressure from the administration to inflate grades because there's a perception, probably accurate, that leads to (short term) improvements in hiring statistics.

Edited for tech-edit fail.


Technically it could be long term. For instance, if employment goes up, then school rank goes up, and if employers care about school rank then employment will go up regardless of grade inflation or not

User avatar
Lincoln
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Lincoln » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:35 pm

redsox550 wrote:Technically it could be long term. For instance, if employment goes up, then school rank goes up, and if employers care about school rank then employment will go up regardless of grade inflation or not


Sure. Also, placing more Cornell graduates into firms for one or two consecutive years may lead to those firms eventually being more willing to recruit from Cornell (whether because those graduates end up on the hiring committee, are willing to recommend students, or whatever). But I think that's all on the margins and mostly conjecture; it's more likely that firms will, after a year or two, adjust their GPA floors upward in order to maintain similar diversity in the summer classes w/r/t school origin.

redsox550
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:15 am

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby redsox550 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:30 pm

Lincoln wrote:
redsox550 wrote:Technically it could be long term. For instance, if employment goes up, then school rank goes up, and if employers care about school rank then employment will go up regardless of grade inflation or not


Sure. Also, placing more Cornell graduates into firms for one or two consecutive years may lead to those firms eventually being more willing to recruit from Cornell (whether because those graduates end up on the hiring committee, are willing to recommend students, or whatever). But I think that's all on the margins and mostly conjecture; it's more likely that firms will, after a year or two, adjust their GPA floors upward in order to maintain similar diversity in the summer classes w/r/t school origin.


I agree, they may be doing this also bc they r hoping the market improves by the time firms catch on to the inflation. Given that , I should prob stop worrying so much about my grades and just check them already

redsox550
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:15 am

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby redsox550 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:00 pm

well that was prettu crappy, whats top 10% whats dean list for 1l?

User avatar
Arbiter213
Posts: 2249
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Arbiter213 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:42 am

redsox550 wrote:well that was prettu crappy, whats top 10% whats dean list for 1l?


They haven't released the grading policy yet, so no way to know. Dean's list is usually around a 3.6

User avatar
Lincoln
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Lincoln » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:00 am

Arbiter213 wrote:
redsox550 wrote:well that was prettu crappy, whats top 10% whats dean list for 1l?


They haven't released the grading policy yet, so no way to know. Dean's list is usually around a 3.6


Though for the 3Ls it was upwards of a 3.7 this past semester.

User avatar
Arbiter213
Posts: 2249
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Arbiter213 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:49 pm

Lincoln wrote:
Arbiter213 wrote:
redsox550 wrote:well that was prettu crappy, whats top 10% whats dean list for 1l?


They haven't released the grading policy yet, so no way to know. Dean's list is usually around a 3.6


Though for the 3Ls it was upwards of a 3.7 this past semester.


You sure? That seems impossible.

User avatar
Lincoln
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Lincoln » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:53 pm

Arbiter213 wrote:
Lincoln wrote:
Arbiter213 wrote:
redsox550 wrote:well that was prettu crappy, whats top 10% whats dean list for 1l?


They haven't released the grading policy yet, so no way to know. Dean's list is usually around a 3.6


Though for the 3Ls it was upwards of a 3.7 this past semester.


You sure? That seems impossible.


I know someone in the c/o 2013 with above an A- average for the last semester who did not get Dean's List. So I know it's above a 3.67.

User avatar
Arbiter213
Posts: 2249
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Arbiter213 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:00 pm

Lincoln wrote:
I know someone in the c/o 2013 with above an A- average for the last semester who did not get Dean's List. So I know it's above a 3.67.


Wow. My year really helps the curve I guess.

User avatar
Lincoln
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Lincoln » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:06 pm

By the way, since all (?) grades are out, if you 1Ls out there have questions for us 2Ls and 3Ls about recruiting etc., this thread is as good as any. Saves me from the purgatory that is barbri, anyway. If you are shy about your grades, PM me (or Arbiter or whoever else lurks this thread).

User avatar
Arbiter213
Posts: 2249
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Arbiter213 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:37 pm

Lincoln wrote:By the way, since all (?) grades are out, if you 1Ls out there have questions for us 2Ls and 3Ls about recruiting etc., this thread is as good as any. Saves me from the purgatory that is barbri, anyway. If you are shy about your grades, PM me (or Arbiter or whoever else lurks this thread).


They get access to symplicity tomorrow, so I assume we'll start seeing bidlists etc. then.

User avatar
Lincoln
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Lincoln » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:02 pm

Arbiter213 wrote:
Lincoln wrote:By the way, since all (?) grades are out, if you 1Ls out there have questions for us 2Ls and 3Ls about recruiting etc., this thread is as good as any. Saves me from the purgatory that is barbri, anyway. If you are shy about your grades, PM me (or Arbiter or whoever else lurks this thread).


They get access to symplicity tomorrow, so I assume we'll start seeing bidlists etc. then.


Thanks for the info. By the way, 1Ls, just in case you don't understand how this works yet, posting bidlists online may not be advisable because your success in getting screeners depends in part on bidding differently from everyone else.

redsox550
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:15 am

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby redsox550 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:15 pm

Lincoln wrote:By the way, since all (?) grades are out, if you 1Ls out there have questions for us 2Ls and 3Ls about recruiting etc., this thread is as good as any. Saves me from the purgatory that is barbri, anyway. If you are shy about your grades, PM me (or Arbiter or whoever else lurks this thread).


any specific advise to how to begin to prep for bidding. I am looking for something more than "research all the firms." maybe a specific place to start or resources to use?

User avatar
Arbiter213
Posts: 2249
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Arbiter213 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:39 pm

redsox550 wrote:
Lincoln wrote:By the way, since all (?) grades are out, if you 1Ls out there have questions for us 2Ls and 3Ls about recruiting etc., this thread is as good as any. Saves me from the purgatory that is barbri, anyway. If you are shy about your grades, PM me (or Arbiter or whoever else lurks this thread).


any specific advise to how to begin to prep for bidding. I am looking for something more than "research all the firms." maybe a specific place to start or resources to use?


To start with, once you get symplicity, make a spreadsheet with all the firms and their High, low, and Average callback GPA.

Talk to 3Ls (you're a 2L now, deal with it) who you know well enough to discuss their exact bidding strategy. Bid as aggressively as you can within sanity. The median-y firms are the hardest to get, so those need to be higher than most "reach" firms.

Ultimately its a lottery though, and it's absolutely possible to get fucked by it. I and another friend from my journal both got only 11 from the lottery. We both hustled though and pumped that number up (in her case it helped she had one of the highest GPAs in our year).

User avatar
Lincoln
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Lincoln » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:12 am

Arbiter's tactic is TCR. (Btw, If you know graduates, you can ask us too.) :wink:

For the next step, NALP and http://www.chambersassociate.com/Search/FirmList were my go-to places to start researching more about where firms have offices, how big their summer classes are, permanent offer rates, practice area strengths, etc. Some of those things are good to know for making your bid list; others become more important once you get your screeners.

Summer class size and number of slots at AJF (or whatever other job fairs you are doing) are, in my opinion, key, but for slightly different reasons. Number of slots is important for bidding: I didn't get a slot with one of my #1 bids because they only has 20 screeners and more than 20 people bid them #1, so it ended up being a totally wasted bid. Class size is important for getting offers. Firms with smaller class sizes can sometimes be a bit pickier. By picky I don't mean more grade-selective, but that within their target grade spectrum, they might give fewer callbacks than bigger firms. Also, such firms will sometimes end up not giving offers to anyone at Cornell simply because they only have 10 SAs and interview at more than 10 schools. (One firm I know of gave CBs to three people in my class and gave offers to none.)

I would also, especially if your grades aren't where you'd like them to be, research firms that are not coming to AJF and make a list of them so you can mail applications to them separately. This can be especially valuable if you have ties to a secondary market that typically doesn't recruit heavily from Cornell.

User avatar
Lincoln
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Lincoln » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:14 am

By the way, I didn't really know anything about any firms, but I had 2L friends from Cornell and from other schools who ended up being extremely helpful. I highly recommend reaching out to whomever you know and trust to get more of an inside scoop on firms.

User avatar
Arbiter213
Posts: 2249
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Arbiter213 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:47 am

Lincoln wrote:By the way, I didn't really know anything about any firms, but I had 2L friends from Cornell and from other schools who ended up being extremely helpful. I highly recommend reaching out to whomever you know and trust to get more of an inside scoop on firms.


Highly credited.

User avatar
msblaw89
Posts: 2669
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:10 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby msblaw89 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:52 am

If you are bidding on a firm that has several offices coming ( NY, Miami, etc). Do you bid just for the firm in general? Or would you bid for the specific location?

User avatar
Lincoln
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Lincoln » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:11 am

msblaw89 wrote:If you are bidding on a firm that has several offices coming ( NY, Miami, etc). Do you bid just for the firm in general? Or would you bid for the specific location?


It depends. Some firms will have offices represented individually. In that case you typically place bids for each separately. Others are interviewing for several offices. For those firms, you typically check boxes or rank the offices in which you are interested. IIRC, this was pretty obvious from Symplicity and other info we got.

northerrn
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:58 am

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby northerrn » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:36 am

If you interview with a firm's office in a secondary market outside the AJF process (like through mass mail or a diversity fair), will it in any way preclude you from bidding on/interviewing with a different office of the same firm at AJF?

LSHopeful91
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:05 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby LSHopeful91 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:15 am

For the bidding counseling, do we need to be in Ithaca or can it be done remotely?

User avatar
Arbiter213
Posts: 2249
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Arbiter213 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:56 am

northerrn wrote:If you interview with a firm's office in a secondary market outside the AJF process (like through mass mail or a diversity fair), will it in any way preclude you from bidding on/interviewing with a different office of the same firm at AJF?



It will depend on the firm.

LSHopeful91 wrote:For the bidding counseling, do we need to be in Ithaca or can it be done remotely?


You can, of course, do it remotely via telephone.

User avatar
Lincoln
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Lincoln » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:56 am

Arbiter213 wrote:
LSHopeful91 wrote:For the bidding counseling, do we need to be in Ithaca or can it be done remotely?


You can, of course, do it remotely via telephone.


Not that you shouldn't do this (you definitely should), but the advice I got was "looks good."




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: splitterfromhell and 3 guests