Cornell 1L taking questions

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Ikki
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Ikki » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:20 pm

spacepenguin wrote:
Ikki wrote:
shakingpaper wrote:How much debt is Cornell worth? (i.e. please provide an encouraging story about people you know getting a good job in their target market.... sigh)


Good question, I would guess anything above $100k is probably pushing it.



COA is $216K

So what you're saying is that everyone, except those who got a Dean's Scholarship, are probably pushing it? Don't be such a downer.


I'm very debt averse, I really wouldn't want to graduate with more than $100k in debt. I still think current 1Ls should chime in and give us their opinion.

EDIT: I'm not being a downer, with the economy in the shape it currently is, about half of us will find it very, very hard to make a return on our investment. I haven't been in that situation, but being in over $100k in non-dischargeable debt terrifies me. If you're not at least worried at the thought of possibly being unemployed in three years, then you must know something I don't.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:59 pm

Ikki wrote:
spacepenguin wrote:
Ikki wrote:
shakingpaper wrote:How much debt is Cornell worth? (i.e. please provide an encouraging story about people you know getting a good job in their target market.... sigh)


Good question, I would guess anything above $100k is probably pushing it.



COA is $216K

So what you're saying is that everyone, except those who got a Dean's Scholarship, are probably pushing it? Don't be such a downer.


I'm very debt averse, I really wouldn't want to graduate with more than $100k in debt. I still think current 1Ls should chime in and give us their opinion.

EDIT: I'm not being a downer, with the economy in the shape it currently is, about half of us will find it very, very hard to make a return on our investment. I haven't been in that situation, but being in over $100k in non-dischargeable debt terrifies me. If you're not at least worried at the thought of possibly being unemployed in three years, then you must know something I don't.

I'm a 2L, and am taking out very nearly the full amount in loans. It usually seems worth it to me.

When I was freaking out about the debt and considering going to Texas despite the fact that Cornell was my first choice and is absolutely perfect for me (Texas would've been ~70K cheaper), my parents just kind of sat me down and explained to me that debt is a part of life. They pointed out that they had been in debt since I'd been born and were still in debt, but that even so we had a great life, and that the massive amount of debt they took on to start their own business was entirely worth it. They also reminded me that there's no such thing as debtors prison anymore.

Also, I don't really agree that 50% of you will have a very, very hard time making a return on your investments. I think ~40% of you merely won't have jobs handed to you at OCI. You'll actually have to put in some legwork to find jobs, but despite the attitude on TLS, there are lots of legal jobs that aren't BigLaw but pay well enough to pay back loans.

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Ikki
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Ikki » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:07 pm

Other25BeforeYou wrote:I'm a 2L, and am taking out very nearly the full amount in loans. It usually seems worth it to me.

When I was freaking out about the debt and considering going to Texas despite the fact that Cornell was my first choice and is absolutely perfect for me (Texas would've been ~70K cheaper), my parents just kind of sat me down and explained to me that debt is a part of life. They pointed out that they had been in debt since I'd been born and were still in debt, but that even so we had a great life, and that the massive amount of debt they took on to start their own business was entirely worth it. They also reminded me that there's no such thing as debtors prison anymore.

Also, I don't really agree that 50% of you will have a very, very hard time making a return on your investments. I think ~40% of you merely won't have jobs handed to you at OCI. You'll actually have to put in some legwork to find jobs, but despite the attitude on TLS, there are lots of legal jobs that aren't BigLaw but pay well enough to pay back loans.


You're a current 2L and obviously know more than I do, but talking to a couple of 3Ls I've learned that things are actually still looking pretty bleak. I just don't think I would be comfortable taking out more than $100k for Cornell, when I have no idea or way to assess how I'll perform once I'm actually there.

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spacepenguin
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby spacepenguin » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:37 pm

Ikki wrote:
spacepenguin wrote:
Ikki wrote:
shakingpaper wrote:How much debt is Cornell worth? (i.e. please provide an encouraging story about people you know getting a good job in their target market.... sigh)


Good question, I would guess anything above $100k is probably pushing it.



COA is $216K

So what you're saying is that everyone, except those who got a Dean's Scholarship, are probably pushing it? Don't be such a downer.


I'm very debt averse, I really wouldn't want to graduate with more than $100k in debt. I still think current 1Ls should chime in and give us their opinion.

EDIT: I'm not being a downer, with the economy in the shape it currently is, about half of us will find it very, very hard to make a return on our investment. I haven't been in that situation, but being in over $100k in non-dischargeable debt terrifies me. If you're not at least worried at the thought of possibly being unemployed in three years, then you must know something I don't.


I think anyone who's spent a little bit of time on TLS knows how terrifying employment prospects may be, but I think it's somewhat disingenuous of you to suggest that only 15% (if even that) are making the 'right' decision in going to Cornell.


I'm a pretty pessimistic person, but 100K for T-14 isn't the most terrible thing in the world. Agree to disagree I guess.

FiveSermon
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby FiveSermon » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:43 pm

What about 200k? lol

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Ikki
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Ikki » Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:38 pm

spacepenguin wrote:
I think anyone who's spent a little bit of time on TLS knows how terrifying employment prospects may be, but I think it's somewhat disingenuous of you to suggest that only 15% (if even that) are making the 'right' decision in going to Cornell.


I'm a pretty pessimistic person, but 100K for T-14 isn't the most terrible thing in the world. Agree to disagree I guess.


Where are you getting the 15% from?

I think 100k is worth it, I just wouldn't do it for more than that. Hell, by graduation I'll probably be in debt that much if not close to it.

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spacepenguin
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby spacepenguin » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:04 pm

Ikki wrote:
spacepenguin wrote:
I think anyone who's spent a little bit of time on TLS knows how terrifying employment prospects may be, but I think it's somewhat disingenuous of you to suggest that only 15% (if even that) are making the 'right' decision in going to Cornell.


I'm a pretty pessimistic person, but 100K for T-14 isn't the most terrible thing in the world. Agree to disagree I guess.


Where are you getting the 15% from?

I think 100k is worth it, I just wouldn't do it for more than that. Hell, by graduation I'll probably be in debt that much if not close to it.


It's a number I pulled out of my ass...but I can't imagine that many people receive 120k+ scholarships

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koalatriste
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby koalatriste » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:35 pm

how about finding ACTUAL DIRECTION in your 0L lives and not going to law school at all? BAM. debt problem solved.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:06 pm

Ikki wrote:
Other25BeforeYou wrote:I'm a 2L, and am taking out very nearly the full amount in loans. It usually seems worth it to me.

When I was freaking out about the debt and considering going to Texas despite the fact that Cornell was my first choice and is absolutely perfect for me (Texas would've been ~70K cheaper), my parents just kind of sat me down and explained to me that debt is a part of life. They pointed out that they had been in debt since I'd been born and were still in debt, but that even so we had a great life, and that the massive amount of debt they took on to start their own business was entirely worth it. They also reminded me that there's no such thing as debtors prison anymore.

Also, I don't really agree that 50% of you will have a very, very hard time making a return on your investments. I think ~40% of you merely won't have jobs handed to you at OCI. You'll actually have to put in some legwork to find jobs, but despite the attitude on TLS, there are lots of legal jobs that aren't BigLaw but pay well enough to pay back loans.


You're a current 2L and obviously know more than I do, but talking to a couple of 3Ls I've learned that things are actually still looking pretty bleak. I just don't think I would be comfortable taking out more than $100k for Cornell, when I have no idea or way to assess how I'll perform once I'm actually there.

I'm definitely not suggesting you take out more than you're comfortable with. I'm taking out twice that much, but I obviously wouldn't do it if I weren't comfortable with it. I'm just providing some reassurance for those who do want to take out that much by providing my honest opinions. I know a lot of 3Ls are more pessimistic than I am, which makes sense -- they started right as the crash was happening, so they weren't aware going in what the job situation would be like. My class knew what it was signing up for. Current 3Ls also had a significantly worse OCI than my class did. But it seems likely to me that the class of '14's experiences will be more similar to the class of '12 than the class of '11, and there's a decent chance your experience will be better than ours.

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Ikki
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Ikki » Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:03 pm

Other25BeforeYou wrote:
Ikki wrote:
Other25BeforeYou wrote:I'm a 2L, and am taking out very nearly the full amount in loans. It usually seems worth it to me.

When I was freaking out about the debt and considering going to Texas despite the fact that Cornell was my first choice and is absolutely perfect for me (Texas would've been ~70K cheaper), my parents just kind of sat me down and explained to me that debt is a part of life. They pointed out that they had been in debt since I'd been born and were still in debt, but that even so we had a great life, and that the massive amount of debt they took on to start their own business was entirely worth it. They also reminded me that there's no such thing as debtors prison anymore.

Also, I don't really agree that 50% of you will have a very, very hard time making a return on your investments. I think ~40% of you merely won't have jobs handed to you at OCI. You'll actually have to put in some legwork to find jobs, but despite the attitude on TLS, there are lots of legal jobs that aren't BigLaw but pay well enough to pay back loans.


You're a current 2L and obviously know more than I do, but talking to a couple of 3Ls I've learned that things are actually still looking pretty bleak. I just don't think I would be comfortable taking out more than $100k for Cornell, when I have no idea or way to assess how I'll perform once I'm actually there.

I'm definitely not suggesting you take out more than you're comfortable with. I'm taking out twice that much, but I obviously wouldn't do it if I weren't comfortable with it. I'm just providing some reassurance for those who do want to take out that much by providing my honest opinions. I know a lot of 3Ls are more pessimistic than I am, which makes sense -- they started right as the crash was happening, so they weren't aware going in what the job situation would be like. My class knew what it was signing up for. Current 3Ls also had a significantly worse OCI than my class did. But it seems likely to me that the class of '14's experiences will be more similar to the class of '12 than the class of '11, and there's a decent chance your experience will be better than ours.


Let's hope you're right. Just to clarify, when I said that "100k is probably pushing it" I didn't try to make a sweeping generalization that no one should take out more than that. Like I said, that's just what I feel comfortable with, and if other people feel comfortable taking out more, then I have no say in that.

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Law Sauce
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Law Sauce » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:37 am

Does anyone know how hard it is to get work in the federal government from cornell in DC or elsewhere? Also does anyone know what kind of grades it would take to get interviews / offers from Denver or Philadelphia firms (some ties to both areas)? Has anyone had any success mass-mailing resumes to firms in secondary markets? I would love a pm if anyone knows anything about any of this

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koalatriste
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby koalatriste » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:26 pm

Law Sauce wrote:Does anyone know how hard it is to get work in the federal government from cornell in DC or elsewhere? Also does anyone know what kind of grades it would take to get interviews / offers from Denver or Philadelphia firms (some ties to both areas)? Has anyone had any success mass-mailing resumes to firms in secondary markets? I would love a pm if anyone knows anything about any of this


does anyone have a crystal ball? not this KOALA. BUT, DC is pretty favorable, esp since Cornell is NY-biased. the others, i can't comment on.

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mths
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby mths » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:24 pm

koalatriste wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:Does anyone know how hard it is to get work in the federal government from cornell in DC or elsewhere? Also does anyone know what kind of grades it would take to get interviews / offers from Denver or Philadelphia firms (some ties to both areas)? Has anyone had any success mass-mailing resumes to firms in secondary markets? I would love a pm if anyone knows anything about any of this


does anyone have a crystal ball? not this KOALA. BUT, DC is pretty favorable, esp since Cornell is NY-biased. the others, i can't comment on.

Koala is so sassy

shakingpaper
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby shakingpaper » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:27 pm

Can any Cornell students comment on life in Ithaca? How bad is it? Does it affect your mood? Your quality of life? Your ability to be "happy" in law school? I think the location and the weather is probably one of the biggest deterrences to me for choosing Cornell over GULC, etc. as irrational as that may be. I have to make a choice by next week!

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vexion
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby vexion » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:30 pm

shakingpaper wrote:Can any Cornell students comment on life in Ithaca? How bad is it? Does it affect your mood? Your quality of life? Your ability to be "happy" in law school? I think the location and the weather is probably one of the biggest deterrences to me for choosing Cornell over GULC, etc. as irrational as that may be. I have to make a choice by next week!

I consider this irrational, but you hear a lot of the same arguments from the kids who grew up in NYC and LA. You're sounding way too negative. You're not going to be leaving the library anyway, so how your experience might be in DC is moot. :)

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Juff
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Juff » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:48 pm

shakingpaper wrote:Can any Cornell students comment on life in Ithaca? How bad is it? Does it affect your mood? Your quality of life? Your ability to be "happy" in law school? I think the location and the weather is probably one of the biggest deterrences to me for choosing Cornell over GULC, etc. as irrational as that may be. I have to make a choice by next week!


I've said this before, but I'll be even more blunt here- if the weather is a factor in your decision to go to law school, then you should seriously reconsider going to law school.

Location is another matter, but only if you mean in terms of where you want to practice (which legal market you want to enter), but since you seem to focusing more on the our moods and "happiness," im going to assume you mean location in terms of quality of life. In that case, see above.

beatrock
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby beatrock » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:27 pm

So I don't have my cornell paperwork on me and won't for awhile, but I feel like I remember it saying the grant money we receive is distributed in half payments per semester. I was planning on just subtracting my grant money from the total cost of tuition to determine how much for loans I have to take out. Will I not be able to do this, as in will I have to take out the full amount of loans because I won't have access to my grant money yet?

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:48 am

beatrock wrote:So I don't have my cornell paperwork on me and won't for awhile, but I feel like I remember it saying the grant money we receive is distributed in half payments per semester. I was planning on just subtracting my grant money from the total cost of tuition to determine how much for loans I have to take out. Will I not be able to do this, as in will I have to take out the full amount of loans because I won't have access to my grant money yet?

I don't understand your question. You don't have access to your grant money ever. Grant money is just money Cornell doesn't make you pay. So if you get $20,000/yr in grant money, then each semester you pay $10,000 less than you otherwise would. So you take out $20,000 less in loans each year than the cost of attendance.

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koalatriste
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby koalatriste » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:55 am

Juff wrote:
shakingpaper wrote:Can any Cornell students comment on life in Ithaca? How bad is it? Does it affect your mood? Your quality of life? Your ability to be "happy" in law school? I think the location and the weather is probably one of the biggest deterrences to me for choosing Cornell over GULC, etc. as irrational as that may be. I have to make a choice by next week!


I've said this before, but I'll be even more blunt here- if the weather is a factor in your decision to go to law school, then you should seriously reconsider going to law school.

Location is another matter, but only if you mean in terms of where you want to practice (which legal market you want to enter), but since you seem to focusing more on the our moods and "happiness," im going to assume you mean location in terms of quality of life. In that case, see above.


re: cornell v. GULC and the weather - i'd rather freeze my ass off for 3 years than be jobless. also, in terms of "happiness," i'd consider making 160K in NYC a lot "happier" an existence than making 70K as a GS-11 in DC.

those prada shoes aren't going to buy themselves.

csoloski
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby csoloski » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:47 pm

Can you comment on your experience with career services and perspective employment? Thank you!!!!!!!!

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mths
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby mths » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:31 pm

csoloski wrote:Can you comment on your experience with career services and perspective employment? Thank you!!!!!!!!

Career services = helpful

Career prospects = fine

Really nothing we can tell you that isn't in regular employment stats

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koalatriste
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby koalatriste » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:58 pm

csoloski wrote:Can you comment on your experience with career services and perspective employment? Thank you!!!!!!!!


:(
Last edited by koalatriste on Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FiveSermon
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:58 pm

koalatriste wrote:
csoloski wrote:Can you comment on your experience with career services and perspective employment? Thank you!!!!!!!!


no offense, but you're going, theoretically at least, to be a lawyer. pull it together.


A mean koala.

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koalatriste
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby koalatriste » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:59 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
koalatriste wrote:
csoloski wrote:Can you comment on your experience with career services and perspective employment? Thank you!!!!!!!!


no offense, but you're going, theoretically at least, to be a lawyer. pull it together.


A mean koala.


word. i mean, it's clearly not a mechanical typographical error.

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mths
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby mths » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:06 pm

koalatriste wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:
koalatriste wrote:
csoloski wrote:Can you comment on your experience with career services and perspective employment? Thank you!!!!!!!!


no offense, but you're going, theoretically at least, to be a lawyer. pull it together.


A mean koala.


word. i mean, it's clearly not a mechanical typographical error.

I noticed it but decided not to be a bitch even though it killed me inside.

;)




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