Cornell 1L taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
AdamatUCF
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby AdamatUCF » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:49 pm

como wrote:
AdamatUCF wrote:
ilsa wrote:I don't know how active this thread is... but here are my questions.

I'm interested in international human rights law


I always see people say this, but I have no idea what it actually means.

What does an "International Human Rights Lawyer" do? Where would you have a job? Is it different from working in a government policy-setting job? I don't mean to be overly critical, but I don't understand people who aim for fields that in my, perhaps cynical, mind, are a bit conceptual and "pie in the sky".

Can you explain to me where you plan on using your JD after you graduate? It would settle a curiosity I've had for a while. All I've heard so far, from others I've asked, are very very vague descriptions of ideals and beliefs, and a few descriptions of jobs that don't really require a $200k JD at all.


Google -> NGO -> Int'l human rights

You're welcome.



Thanks for such an exhaustive answer! :-/

I've looked at the results a bit, and when that wasn't terribly helpful, tried narrowing down the results ultimately ending up with the search query "ngo international human rights lawyer jobs", and I still ended up with nothing to answer my question.

I'm not looking for an explanation of what "international human rights" are, nor the emerging and largely theoretical/insubstantial body of laws that are starting to exist. I'm looking for an explanation of what, exactly, a person with a newly bestowed JD does upon graduation. Near as I can figure, the answer starts with "Move to DC and become a member of the federal bar" , but after that I don't see what a career in "International Human Rights Law" entails on a day to day basis, nor where the career starts.

ilsa
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby ilsa » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:21 pm

AdamatUCF wrote:
como wrote:
AdamatUCF wrote:
ilsa wrote:I don't know how active this thread is... but here are my questions.

I'm interested in international human rights law


I always see people say this, but I have no idea what it actually means.

What does an "International Human Rights Lawyer" do? Where would you have a job? Is it different from working in a government policy-setting job? I don't mean to be overly critical, but I don't understand people who aim for fields that in my, perhaps cynical, mind, are a bit conceptual and "pie in the sky".

Can you explain to me where you plan on using your JD after you graduate? It would settle a curiosity I've had for a while. All I've heard so far, from others I've asked, are very very vague descriptions of ideals and beliefs, and a few descriptions of jobs that don't really require a $200k JD at all.


Google -> NGO -> Int'l human rights

You're welcome.



Thanks for such an exhaustive answer! :-/

I've looked at the results a bit, and when that wasn't terribly helpful, tried narrowing down the results ultimately ending up with the search query "ngo international human rights lawyer jobs", and I still ended up with nothing to answer my question.

I'm not looking for an explanation of what "international human rights" are, nor the emerging and largely theoretical/insubstantial body of laws that are starting to exist. I'm looking for an explanation of what, exactly, a person with a newly bestowed JD does upon graduation. Near as I can figure, the answer starts with "Move to DC and become a member of the federal bar" , but after that I don't see what a career in "International Human Rights Law" entails on a day to day basis, nor where the career starts.



All right. I wasn't sure if you were just being a prick or not. But I did see you on the Cornell 2013 dancing around about getting your acceptance, so you're there. You're at a place with an international human rights clinic. It's odd to be you're in the dark. I'm not saying I am this wide-eyed little girl wanting to save the world. But I do want to do good.

Everything you study is a concept. Everything. You can implement it though. People interested in international human rights can work for NGOs, international programs like Amnesty and Human Rights watch. People have human rights jobs in the US. There are violations here, and some people are defending convicts whether to be treated better or to not be executed. Others can work "internationally" but in the US on asylum cases. The international part isn't necessarily sitting out in DC nor is it rushing into throngs of African children and saving them because you're Superhero Lawyerperson. Some countries don't have constitutions. Women don't have rights in many more countries. There are more human rights violations than most people could count. I'm not saying anything bad about people who want to do biglaw and have a nice life. But for me, there are bigger things. Sometimes policy needs to be changed, whether that is US policy or somewhere abroad. I'm interested in Cornell's French program since it would mean obtaining an international degree, and a language that is an official UN language and one that has roots for Africa.

During my time in undergrad, my school has been working toward establishing itself as a city of refuge for persecuted writers. This is a part of ICORN, a network and the North American one was established by Salman Rushdie, a fatwa was put on his head by a muslim group or government. Basically, like a mafia hit. He escaped to England, safe. His TRANSLATOR was killed though. This is disgustingly common. So many writers and journalists are jailed, persecuted, tortured, or killed yearly. Nine out of ten of the writers seeking refuge are from China. In January Miami (Does UCF mean University of Central Florida) made Chenjari Hove their writer in residence. Houston, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh, and also Ithaca are cities of refuge. Someone has to defend those cases. I'm aware people can do good without a JD, without any degree, even. Some organizations are human rights based and they just need a lawyer. Some will defend asylum cases and others will go through the legal means of getting someone out of a country. A writer in an African nation (forgetting the name currently) spoke out for women's rights. Her research and computer was thrown in the mud and she was kidnapped and imprisoned. Not too long ago Argentina had internment camps for political activists and poets. People were blindfolded for years in them. Violations are happening, shouldn't someone stand up? Defend? Try with everything they have to change things? A little girl from Florida may not end up putting on a dictator on trial for war crimes, but some people do. Some rights need protecting, and worse yet they need to be implemented in other areas. And some people will just work for the US government and it won't ever be an international career, but hopefully along the way, they help someone.

Some people need representation, or for someone to speak up when they can't. I'm not saying it is the most likely thing in the world I'll work for the UN or Amnesty, but someone has to investigate atrocities. Hate crimes, genocides, rape, murder? They can meet with victims, I believe it is working within a country, not sitting in America and pretending to help. Maybe I don't need a JD to do good. Maybe I'll amass 200k in debt for no good reason. It likely never pays much, either. But some things are more important to me, and it is of concern to others, too. Your school along with many, many other top schools have international human rights classes, degrees, clinics. They aren't just there to make me feel fluffy inside. (Sorry for the length).

AdamatUCF
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby AdamatUCF » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:31 pm

ilsa wrote:All right. I wasn't sure if you were just being a prick or not. But I did see you on the Cornell 2013 dancing around about getting your acceptance, so you're there. You're at a place with an international human rights clinic. It's odd to be you're in the dark.



I wasn't trying to be a prick, just genuinely curious what people do with their JD if that is their focus. I'll read over your response, and digest it, and then reply with any questions I have.

And, point of clarification, I'm not AT Cornell yet. School starts in ~30 days, and I haven't even moved to my new place in Ithaca yet. I'll be there soon. :)

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como
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby como » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:42 pm

AdamatUCF wrote:
ilsa wrote:All right. I wasn't sure if you were just being a prick or not. But I did see you on the Cornell 2013 dancing around about getting your acceptance, so you're there. You're at a place with an international human rights clinic. It's odd to be you're in the dark.



I wasn't trying to be a prick, just genuinely curious what people do with their JD if that is their focus. I'll read over your response, and digest it, and then reply with any questions I have.

And, point of clarification, I'm not AT Cornell yet. School starts in ~30 days, and I haven't even moved to my new place in Ithaca yet. I'll be there soon. :)


You do exceptionally well without even trying. Look ma, no hands!

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matt386
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby matt386 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:44 pm

Big Tuna wrote:When did you buy your books in relation to your first class of 1L?


2 or 3 days before. Your first week's classes won't typically have a ton of reading in each assignment. But read the first assignment before the first day. Cold call on the first day + unprepared = :cry:

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let/them/eat/cake
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby let/them/eat/cake » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:57 pm

como wrote:
AdamatUCF wrote:
ilsa wrote:All right. I wasn't sure if you were just being a prick or not. But I did see you on the Cornell 2013 dancing around about getting your acceptance, so you're there. You're at a place with an international human rights clinic. It's odd to be you're in the dark.



I wasn't trying to be a prick, just genuinely curious what people do with their JD if that is their focus. I'll read over your response, and digest it, and then reply with any questions I have.

And, point of clarification, I'm not AT Cornell yet. School starts in ~30 days, and I haven't even moved to my new place in Ithaca yet. I'll be there soon. :)


You do exceptionally well without even trying. Look ma, no hands!


in Adam's defense, I nearly posted something identical, with an eyeroll guy too. didn't, though, because i decided it was too prickish to do to a fellow Cornellian lol
the question is a valid one though, i think, esp. when the person at whom is directed graduating early, not getting WE and just throwing around talk of int'l human rights work. again, not saying there's anything causal about being young-->naive aspirations-->doesn't know what one is talking about, but those things are often correlated. THAT BEING SAID, very nice response by Ilsa, a response that clearly indicates she knows what she's talking about.

there Como, i've said my piece. also, hope you enjoy ur huge room u bastard.

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como
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby como » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:17 pm

You mad, huh?

ilsa
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby ilsa » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:48 pm

let/them/eat/cake wrote:
como wrote:
AdamatUCF wrote:
ilsa wrote:All right. I wasn't sure if you were just being a prick or not. But I did see you on the Cornell 2013 dancing around about getting your acceptance, so you're there. You're at a place with an international human rights clinic. It's odd to be you're in the dark.



I wasn't trying to be a prick, just genuinely curious what people do with their JD if that is their focus. I'll read over your response, and digest it, and then reply with any questions I have.

And, point of clarification, I'm not AT Cornell yet. School starts in ~30 days, and I haven't even moved to my new place in Ithaca yet. I'll be there soon. :)


You do exceptionally well without even trying. Look ma, no hands!


in Adam's defense, I nearly posted something identical, with an eyeroll guy too. didn't, though, because i decided it was too prickish to do to a fellow Cornellian lol
the question is a valid one though, i think, esp. when the person at whom is directed graduating early, not getting WE and just throwing around talk of int'l human rights work. again, not saying there's anything causal about being young-->naive aspirations-->doesn't know what one is talking about, but those things are often correlated. THAT BEING SAID, very nice response by Ilsa, a response that clearly indicates she knows what she's talking about.

there Como, i've said my piece. also, hope you enjoy ur huge room u bastard.


I do understand where people are coming from when they ask what he did. It was just the phrasing that made it borderline prickish. Of course, after hearing the same thing over and over, someone is bound to sound that way. It is a vague term though.

See! That's what bothers me and worries me about applications. I don't feel I am "graduating early," I'm filling out all the needed credits and then some... I just got some classes out of the way when I was in high school, classes that wouldn't have done much difference for me whether I took them a year later or not. I also don't feel someone not being 22-26 and not having worked in the "real world" means they know less. (The Northwestern group would disagree!) However, again, when one meets people that constantly reinforce that idea, it doesn't help when someone comes along nearly identical. And that being said, thank you very much for that acknowledgment. Being young with naive aspirations and lack of a realistic clue can go hand and hand, and often do. When I first started lurking TLS forums and saw the mentions of international human rights and people's rude remarks, it stung a bit, but I do understand where people are coming from and there is a huge correlation. I want to maintain the youthful outlook, as in being passionate, excited and determined, but not naive in thinking one can cure all violence and world hunger, especially right after stepping out of the halls from (hopefully Cornell) with a new JD.

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afghan007
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby afghan007 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:58 pm

2Ls.. did you find it necessary to have more than one suit last year? I'm thinking the range of uses for first year would be the odd interview for 1L summer work, oral presentations, and for one or two of you.. the gunnerish class dress-up :)

also.. would a week vacation during winter break (thinking first week of the new year) hinder the 1L summer job hunt??

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como
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby como » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:14 pm

afghan007 wrote:2Ls.. did you find it necessary to have more than one suit last year? I'm thinking the range of uses for first year would be the odd interview for 1L summer work, oral presentations, and for one or two of you.. the gunnerish class dress-up :)

also.. would a week vacation during winter break (thinking first week of the new year) hinder the 1L summer job hunt??


I had a couple suits, but you only really need one. It's nice to have a black one for formal events like barrister's ball, fall ball, and cabaret. At the same time, you definitely don't need more than one. Outside those events, I probably wore a suit a handful of times. You generally dress up once each lawyering class for a presentation/oral argument. Then you'll need to wear one to any firm receptions. Also, you need to wear one if you do moot court competitions.

I don't think I've EVER seen someone wear a suit to class just 'cause. I hope that record goes unchallenged.

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holybartender
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby holybartender » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:25 pm

como wrote:
afghan007 wrote:2Ls.. did you find it necessary to have more than one suit last year? I'm thinking the range of uses for first year would be the odd interview for 1L summer work, oral presentations, and for one or two of you.. the gunnerish class dress-up :)

also.. would a week vacation during winter break (thinking first week of the new year) hinder the 1L summer job hunt??


I had a couple suits, but you only really need one. It's nice to have a black one for formal events like barrister's ball, fall ball, and cabaret. At the same time, you definitely don't need more than one. Outside those events, I probably wore a suit a handful of times. You generally dress up once each lawyering class for a presentation/oral argument. Then you'll need to wear one to any firm receptions. Also, you need to wear one if you do moot court competitions.

I don't think I've EVER seen someone wear a suit to class just 'cause. I hope that record goes unchallenged.


Someone hasn't seen...... http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=129322155887

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como
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby como » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:31 pm

holybartender wrote:
como wrote:
afghan007 wrote:2Ls.. did you find it necessary to have more than one suit last year? I'm thinking the range of uses for first year would be the odd interview for 1L summer work, oral presentations, and for one or two of you.. the gunnerish class dress-up :)

also.. would a week vacation during winter break (thinking first week of the new year) hinder the 1L summer job hunt??


I had a couple suits, but you only really need one. It's nice to have a black one for formal events like barrister's ball, fall ball, and cabaret. At the same time, you definitely don't need more than one. Outside those events, I probably wore a suit a handful of times. You generally dress up once each lawyering class for a presentation/oral argument. Then you'll need to wear one to any firm receptions. Also, you need to wear one if you do moot court competitions.

I don't think I've EVER seen someone wear a suit to class just 'cause. I hope that record goes unchallenged.


Someone hasn't seen...... http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=129322155887


Haha...it looks fun. This suit conversation reminds me to warn you incoming 1L guys that the law school has an annual charity date auction. Don't ask me why a suit conversation reminds me of this, but it does... I'm not sure if the date auction died with the outgoing 3L class (they were pretty fun), but you might get forced into participating. There is an implicit understanding that you will be stripping on stage. It is a totally random time but the 3Ls raised north of $4000 for Haiti last year.

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vexion
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby vexion » Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:19 pm

So I guess I'm cutting it close to set up appointments with the utilities companies on move-in day... Can you guys tell me all the companies I have to talk to? So far I have Time-Warner for cable and New York State Electric & Gas for, I'm assuming, electric and gas. Are there any competitors to shop around, or does one company pretty much have a monopoly on each utility?

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como
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby como » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:38 pm

vexion wrote:So I guess I'm cutting it close to set up appointments with the utilities companies on move-in day... Can you guys tell me all the companies I have to talk to? So far I have Time-Warner for cable and New York State Electric & Gas for, I'm assuming, electric and gas. Are there any competitors to shop around, or does one company pretty much have a monopoly on each utility?


Monopoly.

fsohn
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby fsohn » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:15 pm

vexion wrote:So I guess I'm cutting it close to set up appointments with the utilities companies on move-in day... Can you guys tell me all the companies I have to talk to? So far I have Time-Warner for cable and New York State Electric & Gas for, I'm assuming, electric and gas. Are there any competitors to shop around, or does one company pretty much have a monopoly on each utility?


There's always Verizon for internet and whatever dish service you like for TV. TimeWarner seems to be reliable enough for both though.

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danidancer
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby danidancer » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:24 am

fsohn wrote:
vexion wrote:So I guess I'm cutting it close to set up appointments with the utilities companies on move-in day... Can you guys tell me all the companies I have to talk to? So far I have Time-Warner for cable and New York State Electric & Gas for, I'm assuming, electric and gas. Are there any competitors to shop around, or does one company pretty much have a monopoly on each utility?


There's always Verizon for internet and whatever dish service you like for TV. TimeWarner seems to be reliable enough for both though.


I priced them - Time Warner and Verizon are about the same for fast internet. They also have cable - the basic is similarly priced to Time Warner, but it seems the tricked out plans are more expensive? I ended up going w/ Time Warner internet + basic cable b/c I've dealt with them before and I don't like dealing w/ multiple companies if I can help it.

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Big Tuna
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Big Tuna » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:42 am

Does anyone have t-mobile? I am wondering how well it works in Ithaca because I don't want to have to switch to a pricier plan with Verizon if I can get decent service.

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jks289
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby jks289 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:57 pm

fsohn wrote:
vexion wrote:So I guess I'm cutting it close to set up appointments with the utilities companies on move-in day... Can you guys tell me all the companies I have to talk to? So far I have Time-Warner for cable and New York State Electric & Gas for, I'm assuming, electric and gas. Are there any competitors to shop around, or does one company pretty much have a monopoly on each utility?


There's always Verizon for internet and whatever dish service you like for TV. TimeWarner seems to be reliable enough for both though.


If you live in a place that previously had internet (so they don't have the install the physical cables, etc) then TimeWarner will let you just pick up the box and install yourself. So there is no issue getting an appointment and it saves $40.

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legallybrunette16
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby legallybrunette16 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:46 pm

A conversation about hornbooks is going on in the Class of 2013 thread... but I wanted to bring it up in this thread as well.

Can any 2 or 3Ls comment on the helpfullness of E&Es and/or hornbooks? If you bought an E & E, did you also buy the hornbook?

Thanks!

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let/them/eat/cake
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby let/them/eat/cake » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:51 pm

legallybrunette16 wrote:A conversation about hornbooks is going on in the Class of 2013 thread... but I wanted to bring it up in this thread as well.

Can any 2 or 3Ls comment on the helpfullness of E&Es and/or hornbooks? If you bought an E & E, did you also buy the hornbook?

Thanks!


i'll echo what was said in the other thread: if you are relying on them for anything, you're due for a b+ or worse.

that being said, maybe chimirinski for conlaw. maybe, depending on your prof. and obvi Hillman's contracts hornbook, but you should only use that as a distillation, a brief review a couple days before the test or at worst something to help you follow the concepts the casebook is trying to get you to understand. if you need the hornbook often during the semester you're in trouble or you're not spending enough time parsing the cases in the casebook. civpro E&E can be helpful during finals review. buying the hornbook or the E&E does not necessarily mean you should buy both for any given class. in short:

conlaw: chemerinksy
contracts: hillman hornbook for purposes stated above.
civpro: E&E for some finals review.
property: there's a hornbook keyed to our casebook.
torts: fucked if i know. worst grade ever.
crim: didn't use anything. u shouldn't need to.

but not really.

LeahNic
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby LeahNic » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:38 pm

let/them/eat/cake wrote:
i'll echo what was said in the other thread: if you are relying on them for anything, you're due for a b+ or worse.

that being said, maybe chimirinski for conlaw. maybe, depending on your prof. and obvi Hillman's contracts hornbook, but you should only use that as a distillation, a brief review a couple days before the test or at worst something to help you follow the concepts the casebook is trying to get you to understand. if you need the hornbook often during the semester you're in trouble or you're not spending enough time parsing the cases in the casebook. civpro E&E can be helpful during finals review. buying the hornbook or the E&E does not necessarily mean you should buy both for any given class. in short:

conlaw: chemerinksy
contracts: hillman hornbook for purposes stated above.
civpro: E&E for some finals review.
property: there's a hornbook keyed to our casebook.
torts: fucked if i know. worst grade ever.
crim: didn't use anything. u shouldn't need to.

but not really.


I found Chemerinsky and Hillman's book to be fairly useful. I read parts of the Understanding Criminal Law and Understanding Torts books as well and found them mildly helpful but I don't think they really helped my grades.

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Hannibal
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby Hannibal » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:42 pm

This thread definitely moved Cornell up my list.

Of the people at Cornell that are from California (or know people from California), how do they handle the weather?

CyLaw
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby CyLaw » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:49 pm

Hannibal wrote:This thread definitely moved Cornell up my list.

Of the people at Cornell that are from California (or know people from California), how do they handle the weather?


Having done the Florida to Iowa thing, I can tell you the key is layers.

One winter and you learn. Weather is not really that big of a deal.

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vexion
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby vexion » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:29 am

So we've got class schedules now.

Any of you rising 2Ls selling books? Can I get a price quote?

CyLaw
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Re: Cornell 1L taking questions

Postby CyLaw » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:33 am

It was previously mentioned that the Hillman hornbook is good at teaching contracts Hillman style. Is this still the best hornbook for contracts if you have Summers? They are coauthors of the same casebook, so I would assume that the Hillman hornbook is matched to our casebook, but I wanted to see if anyone had a better clue than just my guesses.

And before it starts again: Yes, I plan on using supplements. They are supplements, not replacements for the casebook or class or my own notes, so I highly doubt using them would harm my grades in anyway. In intel we learn to use all information available from all sources, but to properly rank and categorize the intel by source in order to disregard bad info.




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