IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

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allezallez
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IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby allezallez » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:20 am

Hello TLSers,

I was wondering if anyone happens to know from experience how well a JD from IU Bloomington would be received in the Cincinnati/Covington area? I should add that I'm not interested in Big Law, and am more concerned with being able to intern and eventually gain employment with the public defender's office or a non-profit, public interest oriented position there. Would a JD from IU Bloomington conceivably allow me to do this, or would I be better off with a degree from say, the University of Kentucky? (The University of Cincinnati is not an option for me, by the way).

Any comments on the portability of a IUB JD in general would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your time everyone, and happy new year!

cavalier1138
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:56 am

So just to clarify, you want to build a career and a life in Cincinnati, but you cannot, under any circumstances, go to school there?

allezallez
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby allezallez » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:05 am

cavalier1138 wrote:So just to clarify, you want to build a career and a life in Cincinnati, but you cannot, under any circumstances, go to school there?


A bit of an extrapolation, but sure. That’s correct.

cavalier1138
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:07 am

allezallez wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:So just to clarify, you want to build a career and a life in Cincinnati, but you cannot, under any circumstances, go to school there?


A bit of an extrapolation, but sure. That’s correct.


Ok. That kind of begs the question...why?

I'm pretty sure the next-best choice (besides going to Cincinnati for a job in Cincinnati) would be Ohio State. Why are you looking at schools in Indiana and Kentucky?

allezallez
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby allezallez » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:18 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
allezallez wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:So just to clarify, you want to build a career and a life in Cincinnati, but you cannot, under any circumstances, go to school there?


A bit of an extrapolation, but sure. That’s correct.


Ok. That kind of begs the question...why?

I'm pretty sure the next-best choice (besides going to Cincinnati for a job in Cincinnati) would be Ohio State. Why are you looking at schools in Indiana and Kentucky?


Reasons to do with family. Kentucky and Indiana are the schools that are on the table for a lot of other reasons that I didn’t feel were relevant to answering the question that I’m asking. Just figured I’d spare everyone my life’s story and try to cut straight to the point. I’m really interested in advice from someone familiar with these schools and cities, and particularly pertaining to public defender/ public interest positions. Any advice? Thanks in advance

allezallez
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby allezallez » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:21 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
allezallez wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:So just to clarify, you want to build a career and a life in Cincinnati, but you cannot, under any circumstances, go to school there?


A bit of an extrapolation, but sure. That’s correct.


Ok. That kind of begs the question...why?

I'm pretty sure the next-best choice (besides going to Cincinnati for a job in Cincinnati) would be Ohio State. Why are you looking at schools in Indiana and Kentucky?


Also, Covington is in Kentucky.

cavalier1138
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:26 am

I mean, if you don't provide any info when setting extremely strange and constrictive conditions, it's kind of hard to give any real advice.

UK will do better for placing you in Kentucky, and Cincinnati or Ohio State will obviously do better for placing you in Ohio. Indiana will not do well at either, especially if you don't have ties to the area.

This whole situation sounds weird (you absolutely must be in IN/KY for three years, but not for four... that would be insanity), but if you're going to paint yourself into this corner, go to UK and focus on getting a job in the Covington area, unless you have ties to Cincinnati, which might make it doable from UK.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:30 am

TBF, Cincinnati is basically in Kentucky, too.

cavalier1138
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:33 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:TBF, Cincinnati is basically in Kentucky, too.


Yeah, that's why I initially thought UK might be better overall, but they still place a relatively small number of grads in Ohio overall (and I have to assume they're all going to Cincinnati). If the OP doesn't have ties, focusing on KY makes more sense, since breaking in to Cincinnati isn't going to be all that easy.

allezallez
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby allezallez » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:36 am

cavalier1138 wrote:I mean, if you don't provide any info when setting extremely strange and constrictive conditions, it's kind of hard to give any real advice.

UK will do better for placing you in Kentucky, and Cincinnati or Ohio State will obviously do better for placing you in Ohio. Indiana will not do well at either, especially if you don't have ties to the area.

This whole situation sounds weird (you absolutely must be in IN/KY for three years, but not for four... that would be insanity), but if you're going to paint yourself into this corner, go to UK and focus on getting a job in the Covington area, unless you have ties to Cincinnati, which might make it doable from UK.


cavalier1138 wrote:I mean, if you don't provide any info when setting extremely strange and constrictive conditions, it's kind of hard to give any real advice.

UK will do better for placing you in Kentucky, and Cincinnati or Ohio State will obviously do better for placing you in Ohio. Indiana will not do well at either, especially if you don't have ties to the area.

This whole situation sounds weird (you absolutely must be in IN/KY for three years, but not for four... that would be insanity), but if you're going to paint yourself into this corner, go to UK and focus on getting a job in the Covington area, unless you have ties to Cincinnati, which might make it doable from UK.


Hmm... I’d say specific rather than strange. I appreciate your time on this but may I ask, do you have any experience with one of the schools or cities we’re talking about? If so which one? does it pertain to public interest/ public defense? I also fail to see how any of my background has any bearing on answering the rather general question about the portability of an IU degree in the Cincy/Covington.

cavalier1138
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:42 am

No, they're weird fucking conditions. You're literally setting a timer on when it's appropriate for you to cross a state line. But they are specific conditions, too, so just add an adjective.

The answer (again) is that Neither IU nor UK have very good out-of-state reach without ties. So your background actually will matter quite a bit. So without more information, UK is a better match for you, because you indicated a willingness to work in the Kentucky market. UK will get you there. PD offices are not all that unique in their hiring; the PD in Cincinnati will have oodles of qualified grads from Ohio schools who have been better positioned to build up work experience in Ohio during school. You can try to build up that experience from Kentucky, but you'll be at a disadvantage if you can't commute up to Cincinnati during the school year to extern. And it'll still be difficult to pull off without ties.

allezallez
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby allezallez » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:02 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:No, they're weird fucking conditions. You're literally setting a timer on when it's appropriate for you to cross a state line. But they are specific conditions, too, so just add an adjective.

The answer (again) is that Neither IU nor UK have very good out-of-state reach without ties. So your background actually will matter quite a bit. So without more information, UK is a better match for you, because you indicated a willingness to work in the Kentucky market. UK will get you there. PD offices are not all that unique in their hiring; the PD in Cincinnati will have oodles of qualified grads from Ohio schools who have been better positioned to build up work experience in Ohio during school. You can try to build up that experience from Kentucky, but you'll be at a disadvantage if you can't commute up to Cincinnati during the school year to extern. And it'll still be difficult to pull off without ties.


Gee, Cavalier, Thank you so much for your help on this. You’ve really acquired a lot of very specific, very useful knowledge in the time you’ve spent on this forum. Please forgive me, but I have to wonder if you aren’t simply regurgitating things you’ve read here about which you have little to no real world knowledge... this kind of dime store, forum wisdom wasn’t what I was looking for when I posted (hence why I asked for someone with experience with these schools or cities to comment)... your comment about Indiana not placing in Kentucky is blatantly false. Look up a little place called Louisville (Cavalier- that’s also in Kentucky) and you’ll find a lot of IU grads working there. Again, thanks for you help on this. All the best.

FN-2187
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby FN-2187 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:06 pm

"Neither IU nor UK have very good out-of-state reach without ties" != "Indiana not placing in Kentucky."
Last edited by FN-2187 on Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:16 pm

I'm not certain that state lines are the major barrier here - Cincinnati is part of Kentucky's market based on proximity. It's true that most Kentucky grads stay in Kentucky, but that's doubtless self-selection and I don't think a Kentucky grad would have a significantly worse time getting something in Cincinnati just because it's across a state line. I'm not saying the chances are great, but it would be possible to make those connections and work toward that goal. (I wouldn't say this for any random city, but I think Cincinnati is a close enough market not to have more than ordinary barriers all Kentucky grads are going to face.)

To be fair, though, whatever anecdotes you have about IU grads in Kentucky (I'm sure there are some... there are grads from every school in every city), Kentucky really doesn't appear to be a fruitful market for recent grads: https://www.lstreports.com/schools/indi ... /location/
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby floatie » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:38 pm

Cincinnati native here, so let me dispel some of the geographic BS on here.

Cincinnati isn't "basically Kentucky" - if anything, for job purposes, Covington is part of Ohio. The entire Northern Kentucky region is considered an unofficial extension of Ohio (as is Southeastern Indiana). UK would be a lot stronger placing in "actual" Kentucky markets (Louisville, Lexington, etc).

IU-Bloomington is a stronger school than UK but as Anony's chart showed it doesn't place well outside of Indiana - that being said, a lot of that is because many IU students are trying to get into Chicago or NYC, and end up staying in Indiana if they can't do that. If you have previous ties to Cincinnati then it wouldn't really be a reach if you actively tried to network in Cincinnati (you would for sure need to do your 1L internship in Cincy) and since Bloomington is only a couple hours away from Cincy, there's no reason for you not to network there. The OH-IN-KY tri-state area, in general, is a lot more "fluid" with its borders compared to other regions.

But as other posters have said, your best bet of getting into Cincinnati would be to go to an Ohio school, and IMHO the only Ohio school worth going to would be OSU (UC's law school is having a ton of administrative issues right now so I would stay away). But if you can't do that, my vote is for IU (with a solid scholarship)

allezallez
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby allezallez » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:47 pm

floatie wrote:Cincinnati native here, so let me dispel some of the geographic BS on here.

Cincinnati isn't "basically Kentucky" - if anything, for job purposes, Covington is part of Ohio. The entire Northern Kentucky region is considered an unofficial extension of Ohio (as is Southeastern Indiana). UK would be a lot stronger placing in "actual" Kentucky markets (Louisville, Lexington, etc).

IU-Bloomington is a stronger school than UK but as Anony's chart showed it doesn't place well outside of Indiana - that being said, a lot of that is because many IU students are trying to get into Chicago or NYC, and end up staying in Indiana if they can't do that. If you have previous ties to Cincinnati then it wouldn't really be a reach if you actively tried to network in Cincinnati (you would for sure need to do your 1L internship in Cincy) and since Bloomington is only a couple hours away from Cincy, there's no reason for you not to network there. The OH-IN-KY tri-state area, in general, is a lot more "fluid" with its borders compared to other regions.

But as other posters have said, your best bet of getting into Cincinnati would be to go to an Ohio school, and IMHO the only Ohio school worth going to would be OSU (UC's law school is having a ton of administrative issues right now so I would stay away). But if you can't do that, my vote is for IU (with a solid scholarship)


This is exactly the kind of insight I was looking for. And as a Kentucky native, I’m only mildly offended by your “extension of southern Ohio” comment :wink: thank you!

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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:42 pm

floatie wrote:Cincinnati native here, so let me dispel some of the geographic BS on here.

Cincinnati isn't "basically Kentucky" - if anything, for job purposes, Covington is part of Ohio. The entire Northern Kentucky region is considered an unofficial extension of Ohio (as is Southeastern Indiana). UK would be a lot stronger placing in "actual" Kentucky markets (Louisville, Lexington, etc).

IU-Bloomington is a stronger school than UK but as Anony's chart showed it doesn't place well outside of Indiana - that being said, a lot of that is because many IU students are trying to get into Chicago or NYC, and end up staying in Indiana if they can't do that. If you have previous ties to Cincinnati then it wouldn't really be a reach if you actively tried to network in Cincinnati (you would for sure need to do your 1L internship in Cincy) and since Bloomington is only a couple hours away from Cincy, there's no reason for you not to network there. The OH-IN-KY tri-state area, in general, is a lot more "fluid" with its borders compared to other regions.

But as other posters have said, your best bet of getting into Cincinnati would be to go to an Ohio school, and IMHO the only Ohio school worth going to would be OSU (UC's law school is having a ton of administrative issues right now so I would stay away). But if you can't do that, my vote is for IU (with a solid scholarship)

I will certainly defer to a Cincinnati native. :) I think I was mixing up northern Kentucky's connections to Ohio with Ohio's connections to northern Kentucky, if that makes any sense.

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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:11 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
floatie wrote:Cincinnati native here, so let me dispel some of the geographic BS on here.

Cincinnati isn't "basically Kentucky" - if anything, for job purposes, Covington is part of Ohio. The entire Northern Kentucky region is considered an unofficial extension of Ohio (as is Southeastern Indiana). UK would be a lot stronger placing in "actual" Kentucky markets (Louisville, Lexington, etc).

IU-Bloomington is a stronger school than UK but as Anony's chart showed it doesn't place well outside of Indiana - that being said, a lot of that is because many IU students are trying to get into Chicago or NYC, and end up staying in Indiana if they can't do that. If you have previous ties to Cincinnati then it wouldn't really be a reach if you actively tried to network in Cincinnati (you would for sure need to do your 1L internship in Cincy) and since Bloomington is only a couple hours away from Cincy, there's no reason for you not to network there. The OH-IN-KY tri-state area, in general, is a lot more "fluid" with its borders compared to other regions.

But as other posters have said, your best bet of getting into Cincinnati would be to go to an Ohio school, and IMHO the only Ohio school worth going to would be OSU (UC's law school is having a ton of administrative issues right now so I would stay away). But if you can't do that, my vote is for IU (with a solid scholarship)

I will certainly defer to a Cincinnati native. :) I think I was mixing up northern Kentucky's connections to Ohio with Ohio's connections to northern Kentucky, if that makes any sense.


Wasn't there a "war" over some part of Ohio? Was Kentucky part of that?

Anyway, glad that the OP liked this version of the same basic advice.

allezallez
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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby allezallez » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:33 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
floatie wrote:Cincinnati native here, so let me dispel some of the geographic BS on here.

Cincinnati isn't "basically Kentucky" - if anything, for job purposes, Covington is part of Ohio. The entire Northern Kentucky region is considered an unofficial extension of Ohio (as is Southeastern Indiana). UK would be a lot stronger placing in "actual" Kentucky markets (Louisville, Lexington, etc).

IU-Bloomington is a stronger school than UK but as Anony's chart showed it doesn't place well outside of Indiana - that being said, a lot of that is because many IU students are trying to get into Chicago or NYC, and end up staying in Indiana if they can't do that. If you have previous ties to Cincinnati then it wouldn't really be a reach if you actively tried to network in Cincinnati (you would for sure need to do your 1L internship in Cincy) and since Bloomington is only a couple hours away from Cincy, there's no reason for you not to network there. The OH-IN-KY tri-state area, in general, is a lot more "fluid" with its borders compared to other regions.

But as other posters have said, your best bet of getting into Cincinnati would be to go to an Ohio school, and IMHO the only Ohio school worth going to would be OSU (UC's law school is having a ton of administrative issues right now so I would stay away). But if you can't do that, my vote is for IU (with a solid scholarship)

I will certainly defer to a Cincinnati native. :) I think I was mixing up northern Kentucky's connections to Ohio with Ohio's connections to northern Kentucky, if that makes any sense.


Wasn't there a "war" over some part of Ohio? Was Kentucky part of that?

Anyway, glad that the OP liked this version of the same basic advice.


Gem of post Cav. You really shine bright on here. Thanks buddy...

Also, Thanks to Nony for replying based on what appeared to be experience with the region and good intentions.

If anybody else is familiar with Cincy and how Uk or IU degrees might do there, I’d love to hear what you think.

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Re: IU Bloomington Maurer or UK for Cincinnati/ Covington

Postby KPUSN07 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:55 pm

I've been admitted to UK with a good scholarship (WL at IU) - I looked at their job outcomes - big law is not great at all - it's also hard to know where in Kentucky and Ohio most graduates place - what are the OCIs like and where do students work during the summer?

What did stick out is something like 7-10 graduates get Federal Clerkships - I was not expecting that. Where are the federal clerkships? Either way, I'm still a long way from the cycle, and I have family from Cincy so it's a nice option for me as I await higher schools / waitlists (ironically, I was WLed at UC and I'm family legacy :? )




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