How will this impact taking the bar or character and fitness

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lawapplicant2017
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How will this impact taking the bar or character and fitness

Postby lawapplicant2017 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:10 pm

On the one hand I feel like everything might be alright, but then on the other hand I feel like there is room for much concern on this issue.

I have no felonies, misdemeanors, traffic tickets, citations, no disciplinary actions at university, nothing - which is the good news.

The bad news - I have had severe OCD/anxiety, but have never sought treatment for either. I have been living with my brother and his wife and things have been hostile and not good, which is why I am moving out this week.

Twice in the past four months the police have arrived at their place. My sister in law is a mental health counselor and always tries to help me with my issues. My brother gets agitated with my carrying on and that he always tries to dial 911, and yells at me and says get help. The first time he called 911 in July, the police came and talked to us and he must have said I grabbed the phone out of his hand. The police said to me in July, if there is another outburst remove yourself from the situation.

Then today, the same thing happened. Police arrived. Paramedics arrived too to evaluate me. Explained what happened. They were wanting to encourage me to go to the hospital, but my sister in law begged them not to. I signed a refusal for hospitalization with paramedics. They said if this happens again and I refuse hospitalization, I could be arrested, since there was assault (the pulling the phone away from him). They said I wasnt being charged for anything.

So, I am moving out this week, and yes, there are no misdemeanors, felonies, citations - nothing BUT all this info will be in the police database. They might have documented "anxiety and possible other mental issues".

So, even if you dont have a criminal record and never have been treated for mental illness, if assault is written in police database, Could this preclude me from taking the Bar or get me in trouble with C and F, especially for mental illness?

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UVA2B
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Re: How will this impact taking the bar or character and fitness

Postby UVA2B » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:19 pm

Gateway question: what state bar are we talking about? I'm not sure it'll make a huge difference, but it might better help you figure out whether the bar will look poorly on your situation.

Completely unsolicited advice: your post seems like there are real underlying issues you should address before ever worrying about the bar exam. Referring to yourself as "carrying on" and your sister in law trying to shield you from your brother's insistence on seeking help just seems like a huge personal red flag. I refuse to extrapolate beyond what you've posted here, but there is more going on here than you want to let on, and that's probably also deserving of your attention.

ETA: After reviewing your post history, there seems to be a genuine feeling of paranoia about your future career. This absolutely needs to be addressed on the personal level before you ever address whether a state bar will admit you.

lawapplicant2017
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Re: How will this impact taking the bar or character and fitness

Postby lawapplicant2017 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:44 pm

State bar was talking about was New York.

Thanks for your help. I would just really like to know if an applicant never had a felony or misdemeanor and never charged with anything but had perhaps records in the police database that might have things said alluding to mental health, be enough to preclude them from the bar, if its 5 years from now?

I ask, because I have heard of even people with felonies that can still be admitted - but wasnt sure if things said regarding mental health in the police database, enough to preclude someone?

cavalier1138
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Re: How will this impact taking the bar or character and fitness

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:45 am

I'm also in the get-help-now camp. But the answer to your question is that it depends what questions are asked by the bar and what records actually exist. I really doubt that the bar is going to have a question asking you to describe every police encounter in your life.

That said, get treatment. The issue here isn't that you might not pass C&F. The issue is that law school might literally cause you to have a breakdown.

ETA: From your post history, it's also clear that you're not giving a totally factual account of what happened here (the person you're arguing with has switched in each retelling, and other details have been added/subtracted). So if you are trying to ask about something more serious, then you need to actually say what happened and stop beating around the bush. And either way, still get help.

lawapplicant2017
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Re: How will this impact taking the bar or character and fitness

Postby lawapplicant2017 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:46 am

Well, I've heard of people with DUI's and actual felonies that can sit for the bar, but likely they've had 10 years to separate themselves from the offense.

I read the NY Character and Fitness and it just asks if you've ever been convicted of a felony, misdemeanor, or been cited? my answer would be truthfully No to all the above, however, when they do a background search, the two incidents that the police came to the house would show up, since they are in the police database, even though I was never charged with anything, so how much would you say that can impede on one's eligibility?

Also, the two times the police were here, I was not given any paperwork nor did I put pen to anything. Since they didnt ask for identification or finger print, Couldnt it be for all they know that possibly someone else could have given my name, since there is no proof they actually talked to ME?

cavalier1138
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Re: How will this impact taking the bar or character and fitness

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:08 pm

Dude.

Get yourself into therapy. Seriously. Enough people have played along with your last attempts at this, and it's clearly not helping. You cannot self-medicate, and you cannot act like you're doing just fine.

Get. Help.

lawapplicant2017
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Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 8:06 am

Re: How will this impact taking the bar or character and fitness

Postby lawapplicant2017 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:06 pm

While I appreciate the help, I have been truthful about the scenario I described above. Yes, I may have asked this more than one. Yes, I might have switched around the relations, for the sake of trying to foster some anonymity, but everything I described in the situation was truthful. There was not more to the story than what I told. It was basically a relation getting provoked by my worrisome nature and out of hotheadedness they dialed 911, not because there was a safety issue or a pressing problem with my mental health that needed addressed. I really dont feel my inquiry is feeding into a problem of any sorts that I "supposedly" have.

Furthermore, I realize that noone can tell me for certain, however, I know there are others that have been through C and F that might have a couple insights.

I just merely want to know:

1). Is it possible that if you have no citations, misdemeanors, felonies, tickets, no academic issues, treatment for drugs or alcohol or mental health, that you can fail the C and F, if there are a couple of incident reports recorded on the police database?
2). Will they likely find this during the C and F background check?
3). Incident reports cant really be proven since I never put pen to any paperwork, never proffered an ID, nor fingerprinted, etc. So for all they know its someones word against mine right?

If anyone else can answer and give a helpful bit of insight it would be appreciated. No, I am not feeding into my "problem". I just have scored a 178 on the LSAT and have the potential to either get into T14 or T 20, and would like to have some realistic feedback now before I get into a great school and cant take the bar.

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zhenders
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Re: How will this impact taking the bar or character and fitness

Postby zhenders » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:05 pm

If it's a major concern you have, you should reach out to a C&F attorney; this isn't a legal advice forum. It seems as though your questions should be answerable relatively quickly in that manner, and I suspect that given what you describe as your worrisome nature, getting anecdotal non-answers from folks on TLS isn't likely to ease your concerns.

Law school is emotionally incredibly difficult, and if uncertainty is something that stresses you out to any significant degree, there is quite literally no worse place to be than law school.

cavalier1138
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Re: How will this impact taking the bar or character and fitness

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:13 pm

lawapplicant2017 wrote:I really dont feel my inquiry is feeding into a problem of any sorts that I "supposedly" have.


You flat-out said that you have severe anxiety and OCD, both of which are not being treated. I'm also gonna go out on a limb and guess that they're both self-diagnosed.

If you want specific C&F advice, you need to ask a C&F attorney, not random people on a website. And if you have mental health issues, you need to seek out a mental health professional for assistance. I don't care how high your LSAT is; going to law school without seeking any kind of treatment for these conditions could literally be life-threatening. If you came here saying that you had a heart condition that got worse with stress, any responsible person would tell you to consult a doctor before going to law school. This is no different. Get help.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: How will this impact taking the bar or character and fitness

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:24 pm

lawapplicant2017 wrote:1). Is it possible that if you have no citations, misdemeanors, felonies, tickets, no academic issues, treatment for drugs or alcohol or mental health, that you can fail the C and F, if there are a couple of incident reports recorded on the police database?
2). Will they likely find this during the C and F background check?
3). Incident reports cant really be proven since I never put pen to any paperwork, never proffered an ID, nor fingerprinted, etc. So for all they know its someones word against mine right?

So, my short answer is, there is no reason this incident (based on the descriptions) is going to cause you fail C&F.

The longer answer is that what you're overlooking is that the whole point of C&F is to be forthcoming and answer all the questions honestly. So, you absolutely need to stop thinking about "they can't prove this/someone else might have made it up." If the bar asks a question to which this incident is responsive, you absolutely need to report it - you can't just think, "well, no one can prove it, it might not have been me, someone might have given my name, so I can leave it out." Questions vary from state to state, so I can't say off the top of my head what question might require answering about this, but it is always always always much worse to cover something up than to admit it up front. Any possible impact that this incident would have is much much much less than the impact of not disclosing it and someone finding out about it.

Stepping back a bit, pretty much all state bars are going to ask about mental health treatment. Admitting that you have undergone mental health treatment will not keep you from getting admitted. Lying about it will. Not getting help and having your mental health issues get in the way of succeeding in school/the profession will.




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