C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

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Anonymous Questioner
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C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby Anonymous Questioner » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:38 pm

Hi, all. In undergrad, I was rightly fired from a job for giving into curiosity and inhaling a single hit of a fellow employee's bong on a lunch break. I haven't experimented with any kind of drugs since then, nor do I ever want to again. No charges were filed and I have no other criminal history -- not even a parking ticket. However, I have properly disclosed the incident on law school applications, so it is on the record. In addition, I'll obviously have to disclose again on the Bar C&F Questionnaire. I'm wondering whether this will have any adverse effects on my potential for any of the following career path interests of mine:

-DA's office
-State Judge
-USAF JAG
-State clerkship

Thanks for the help. Be honest -- I can handle answers that I don't like. I appreciate it very much.

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Platopus
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby Platopus » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:09 pm

Which schools require you to disclose getting fired... Unless you were arrested or ticketed or charged with something, I'm not sure you had to disclose this...

Cmoney $$
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby Cmoney $$ » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:24 pm

Anonymous Questioner wrote:Hi, all. In undergrad, I was rightly fired from a job for giving into curiosity and inhaling a single hit of a fellow employee's bong on a lunch break. I haven't experimented with any kind of drugs since then, nor do I ever want to again. No charges were filed and I have no other criminal history -- not even a parking ticket. However, I have properly disclosed the incident on law school applications, so it is on the record. In addition, I'll obviously have to disclose again on the Bar C&F Questionnaire. I'm wondering whether this will have any adverse effects on my potential for any of the following career path interests of mine:

-DA's office
-State Judge
-USAF JAG
-State clerkship

Thanks for the help. Be honest -- I can handle answers that I don't like. I appreciate it very much.


Army recruiter here. For JAG absolutely do not disclose this. There is absolutely no possible way they will ever find out about this, and it will disqualify you. If you were never cited, no one will care (military wise). Do not even claim it on your physical exam. Processing scholarship applications for the army, including JAG, I always get the nervous nelly who decided to tell me he/she smoked pot once in 2008 and then again in 2011... I then disqualify them, even though we would never have known... My 2 cents worth.

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CaptainLeela
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby CaptainLeela » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:07 pm

I work across a prosecutor who was charged with 2 violent felonies involving weapons and convicted of one. I wouldn't worry about a DA position

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BulletTooth
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby BulletTooth » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:26 pm

Cmoney $$ wrote:
Anonymous Questioner wrote:Hi, all. In undergrad, I was rightly fired from a job for giving into curiosity and inhaling a single hit of a fellow employee's bong on a lunch break. I haven't experimented with any kind of drugs since then, nor do I ever want to again. No charges were filed and I have no other criminal history -- not even a parking ticket. However, I have properly disclosed the incident on law school applications, so it is on the record. In addition, I'll obviously have to disclose again on the Bar C&F Questionnaire. I'm wondering whether this will have any adverse effects on my potential for any of the following career path interests of mine:

-DA's office
-State Judge
-USAF JAG
-State clerkship

Thanks for the help. Be honest -- I can handle answers that I don't like. I appreciate it very much.


Army recruiter here. For JAG absolutely do not disclose this. There is absolutely no possible way they will ever find out about this, and it will disqualify you. If you were never cited, no one will care (military wise). Do not even claim it on your physical exam. Processing scholarship applications for the army, including JAG, I always get the nervous nelly who decided to tell me he/she smoked pot once in 2008 and then again in 2011... I then disqualify them, even though we would never have known... My 2 cents worth.


If it's disclosed in his law school application and then in his Bar C&F application, there is at least a chance of a JAG recruiter finding out about it, no? This wouldn't be a case where some person took a hit, and then nothing happened from it (you're stories about nervous nellys). OP is saying that there is going to be a paper trail, and he got fired for it. Maybe a recruiter does a more meticulous background check than you, and then there is at least a risk that OP would getting in deep shit for lying on the application. Maybe the recruiter calls his former employer, who talks about the incident. Then what?

cavalier1138
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:29 pm

BulletTooth wrote:If it's disclosed in his law school application and then in his Bar C&F application, there is at least a chance of a JAG recruiter finding out about it, no? This wouldn't be a case where some person took a hit, and then nothing happened from it (you're stories about nervous nellys). OP is saying that there is going to be a paper trail, and he got fired for it. Maybe a recruiter does a more meticulous background check than you, and then there is at least a risk that OP would getting in deep shit for lying on the application. Maybe the recruiter calls his former employer, who talks about the incident. Then what?


*Disclaimer: Have not gone through C&F or even spent much time thinking about the process yet*

I'm reasonably certain that your law school application and bar C&F disclosures are not readily available to any prospective employer. But I agree with the other posters that this is likely only an issue for federal positions or JAG.

Cmoney $$
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby Cmoney $$ » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:32 am

BulletTooth wrote:
Cmoney $$ wrote:
Anonymous Questioner wrote:Hi, all. In undergrad, I was rightly fired from a job for giving into curiosity and inhaling a single hit of a fellow employee's bong on a lunch break. I haven't experimented with any kind of drugs since then, nor do I ever want to again. No charges were filed and I have no other criminal history -- not even a parking ticket. However, I have properly disclosed the incident on law school applications, so it is on the record. In addition, I'll obviously have to disclose again on the Bar C&F Questionnaire. I'm wondering whether this will have any adverse effects on my potential for any of the following career path interests of mine:

-DA's office
-State Judge
-USAF JAG
-State clerkship

Thanks for the help. Be honest -- I can handle answers that I don't like. I appreciate it very much.


Army recruiter here. For JAG absolutely do not disclose this. There is absolutely no possible way they will ever find out about this, and it will disqualify you. If you were never cited, no one will care (military wise). Do not even claim it on your physical exam. Processing scholarship applications for the army, including JAG, I always get the nervous nelly who decided to tell me he/she smoked pot once in 2008 and then again in 2011... I then disqualify them, even though we would never have known... My 2 cents worth.


If it's disclosed in his law school application and then in his Bar C&F application, there is at least a chance of a JAG recruiter finding out about it, no? This wouldn't be a case where some person took a hit, and then nothing happened from it (you're stories about nervous nellys). OP is saying that there is going to be a paper trail, and he got fired for it. Maybe a recruiter does a more meticulous background check than you, and then there is at least a risk that OP would getting in deep shit for lying on the application. Maybe the recruiter calls his former employer, who talks about the incident. Then what?


The recruiter does not call employers. Further, the federal government does not check with the bar association. OP could disclose, but chances are it would needlessly disqualify the applicant from federal service. As a recruiter, we're not allowed to advise someone in the application process to hide information, but chances are the federal investigator would not go through the trouble to find out if he was fired for drug use. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? No. Fyi, air force jag has about 3-5 slots per year for about 100 applicants. Disclosure would disqualify OP. If not actually, at least through competition as all prior drug use requires a waiver approved by a general officer (4 star general).

Cmoney $$
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby Cmoney $$ » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:38 am

To squash your curiosity, call a recruiter and ask your hypothetical question. Don't give your name or phone number. I literally get 3 or 4 related calls a day.

Anonymous Questioner
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby Anonymous Questioner » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:40 am

Hi All, thanks for the advice. I'm less interested in JAG now than I used to be anyway, so it's not too big of a deal. Right now I'm particularly interested in being a DA and then going on to try to become a State judge later on -- any thoughts on whether this would preclude me from being a judge?

Anonymous Questioner
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby Anonymous Questioner » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:47 am

Platopus wrote:Which schools require you to disclose getting fired... Unless you were arrested or ticketed or charged with something, I'm not sure you had to disclose this...


Actually, the majority of the schools I'm applying to specifically ask this on their C&F section now. If I recall correctly, U of A, W&L, Villanova, Wake Forest, U of Iowa, and Penn State Dickinson all had this question as a mandatory response query. Emory doesn't ask, though.

Anonymous Questioner
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby Anonymous Questioner » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:52 am

BulletTooth wrote:
Cmoney $$ wrote:
Anonymous Questioner wrote:Hi, all. In undergrad, I was rightly fired from a job for giving into curiosity and inhaling a single hit of a fellow employee's bong on a lunch break. I haven't experimented with any kind of drugs since then, nor do I ever want to again. No charges were filed and I have no other criminal history -- not even a parking ticket. However, I have properly disclosed the incident on law school applications, so it is on the record. In addition, I'll obviously have to disclose again on the Bar C&F Questionnaire. I'm wondering whether this will have any adverse effects on my potential for any of the following career path interests of mine:

-DA's office
-State Judge
-USAF JAG
-State clerkship

Thanks for the help. Be honest -- I can handle answers that I don't like. I appreciate it very much.


Army recruiter here. For JAG absolutely do not disclose this. There is absolutely no possible way they will ever find out about this, and it will disqualify you. If you were never cited, no one will care (military wise). Do not even claim it on your physical exam. Processing scholarship applications for the army, including JAG, I always get the nervous nelly who decided to tell me he/she smoked pot once in 2008 and then again in 2011... I then disqualify them, even though we would never have known... My 2 cents worth.


If it's disclosed in his law school application and then in his Bar C&F application, there is at least a chance of a JAG recruiter finding out about it, no? This wouldn't be a case where some person took a hit, and then nothing happened from it (you're stories about nervous nellys). OP is saying that there is going to be a paper trail, and he got fired for it. Maybe a recruiter does a more meticulous background check than you, and then there is at least a risk that OP would getting in deep shit for lying on the application. Maybe the recruiter calls his former employer, who talks about the incident. Then what?


Yeah, because the bar has access to your law school's application, I'm not willing to leave it off my applications. I'd much rather take the smaller hit and do the right thing by disclosing properly than lie (or purposefully omit germane facts) and then have it hurt me even worse later on. Because somebody will find out eventually.

cavalier1138
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:05 am

Anonymous Questioner wrote:Hi All, thanks for the advice. I'm less interested in JAG now than I used to be anyway, so it's not too big of a deal. Right now I'm particularly interested in being a DA and then going on to try to become a State judge later on -- any thoughts on whether this would preclude me from being a judge?


State judges are elected, so I'd poll your constituents and local lobbying groups to see what they think.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:20 am

Not all state judges are elected. And I really doubt that it would matter by the time you’d become a judge.

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crumb cake
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby crumb cake » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:21 pm

Cmoney $$ wrote:all prior drug use requires a waiver approved by a general officer (4 star general).


That seems kind of insane. It’s shocking to me that federal positions have these kind of purity tests. We leave the criminal justice system to those who have never had to actually interact with it or been at its mercy.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:30 pm

That’s specific to the military. Other federal requirements aren’t quite so unforgiving.

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pancakes3
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby pancakes3 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:42 pm

crumb cake wrote:
Cmoney $$ wrote:all prior drug use requires a waiver approved by a general officer (4 star general).


That seems kind of insane. It’s shocking to me that federal positions have these kind of purity tests. We leave the criminal justice system to those who have never had to actually interact with it or been at its mercy.


i think the logic goes that in matters of national security, they specifically don't want people who can be compromised by being at something/anything's mercy.

Cmoney $$
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby Cmoney $$ » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:46 pm

crumb cake wrote:
Cmoney $$ wrote:all prior drug use requires a waiver approved by a general officer (4 star general).


That seems kind of insane. It’s shocking to me that federal positions have these kind of purity tests. We leave the criminal justice system to those who have never had to actually interact with it or been at its mercy.


It is very silly. It's the same process for every petty crime as well. I had a female applicant who stole a pair of sunglasses when she was 17 and had to get an AMA waiver (from congress) to commission as a lieutenant. The worst part is that when we ran the federal background check, she had no record. We had to file it as a self admittal. Basically, unless you were finger printed, or you can Google it yourself, it probably doesn't exist or no one will know where to find it (unless you tell them).

I think the over the top moral purity test for military comes from the 70's and 80's "go to war or go to jail" mentality. There were a lot of problems because of judges and prosecutors sending criminals to sign up for the military.

Perhaps they ought to have you sign a contract saying you won't use drugs... Oh wait. They definitely do that as well.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: C&F Question -- Future career roadblocks?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:50 pm

Eh, drugs are still illegal to the feds (and many to the states as well). Requiring people to say they won’t engage in illegal activity while employed in federal employ isn’t really the same as treating youthful mistakes as disqualifying.




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