Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

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ernie
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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby ernie » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:09 am

Making 195k will certainly relieve money pressure, but baseline is relevant too right? Because it's not a comparison between 195k biglaw salary and pre-law school salary. It's a comparison between 195k biglaw and (hypothetically) 60k PI salary. 195k is far far better than 20k, but how much better is 195k than 60k? Especially after factoring in higher taxes on the 195k, and not having to service debt because of LRAP/PSLF?

Everyone is different, obviously. But for me at least, making (hypothetically) 60k and not having to worry about debt will put me in a much more stable financial position than I was pre-law school. The additional marginal benefit of 195k over 60k wasn't worth the costs to QOL. (For me at least; as I said, to each their own. I have friends who have families to support; of course the calculus would be far different)

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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby Nebby » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:22 am

ernie wrote:Making 195k will certainly relieve money pressure, but baseline is relevant too right? Because it's not a comparison between 195k biglaw salary and pre-law school salary. It's a comparison between 195k biglaw and (hypothetically) 60k PI salary. 195k is far far better than 20k, but how much better is 195k than 60k? Especially after factoring in higher taxes on the 195k, and not having to service debt because of LRAP/PSLF?

Everyone is different, obviously. But for me at least, making (hypothetically) 60k and not having to worry about debt will put me in a much more stable financial position than I was pre-law school. The additional marginal benefit of 195k over 60k wasn't worth the costs to QOL. (For me at least; as I said, to each their own. I have friends who have families to support; of course the calculus would be far different)

This is basically my position too. 65k and no worries about student loans due to LRAP/PSLF. It's a dream combo and allows me to help out my family too.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby Rahviveh » Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:30 am

I was poor before law school and it still sucks. My hours are actually pretty good, but the time spent on tedious bull shit for tedious people is something that nobody can enjoy.

The typical poor pre law student did TFA, peace corps or political campaigns, all of which involve long hours for little monetary compensation. But those jobs are very different because you're usually in a social environment and helping people. It's just not the same as hunkering down and running through defined terms in a loan agreement or churning ancillary documents that nobody will ever read.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:26 am

SmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.

It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.

It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.


I still worry about/struggle to pay my bills

I still don't bring my parents to nice meals

I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them

Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save

(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)

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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby RSolano » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:49 am

jbagelboy wrote:
SmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.

It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.

It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.


I still worry about/struggle to pay my bills

I still don't bring my parents to nice meals

I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them

Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save

(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)


Are you living a dramatically different lifestyle than you did in law school? (More expensive apartment, etc.) I ask because I've heard some people live very frugally (relative to colleagues) and find $180,000 more than enough money to live on and pay debt and save. It's alarming to hear that that salary is too low to support you.

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waldorf
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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby waldorf » Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:01 pm

RSolano wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
SmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.

It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.

It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.


I still worry about/struggle to pay my bills

I still don't bring my parents to nice meals

I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them

Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save

(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)


Are you living a dramatically different lifestyle than you did in law school? (More expensive apartment, etc.) I ask because I've heard some people live very frugally (relative to colleagues) and find $180,000 more than enough money to live on and pay debt and save. It's alarming to hear that that salary is too low to support you.


If you're in a large city on the East Coast and are trying to throw 3-5k a month at loans, I could see how it would feel as if you still have to worry about money. After taxes, 180k is 110. Try to throw $40-50k a year at loans, and you're looking at around $60k a year. Certainly not nothing, but in a high COL area, it's not a lot either.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:18 pm

bwaldorf wrote:
RSolano wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
SmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.

It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.

It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.


I still worry about/struggle to pay my bills

I still don't bring my parents to nice meals

I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them

Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save

(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)


Are you living a dramatically different lifestyle than you did in law school? (More expensive apartment, etc.) I ask because I've heard some people live very frugally (relative to colleagues) and find $180,000 more than enough money to live on and pay debt and save. It's alarming to hear that that salary is too low to support you.


If you're in a large city on the East Coast and are trying to throw 3-5k a month at loans, I could see how it would feel as if you still have to worry about money. After taxes, 180k is 110. Try to throw $40-50k a year at loans, and you're looking at around $60k a year. Certainly not nothing, but in a high COL area, it's not a lot either.


To give a broad example (non-NYC), $10k/month take home after tax and healthcare, $2k/month on rent, $1k/month on car (payments, insurance, gas, parking), $4k/month on loans, several hundred per month on fixed utilities and other costs, $800/month on groceries and household items, and you're left with ~$1.5k for drinks, going out to eat, any travel, all necessary clothes, repairs, out of pocket medical costs, gifts, ect. And realistically associates spend way more than that on those things. Not to mention the stuff of life. Part of a friend's wedding party? That's $500+ right there. Want to visit your family for thanksgiving? $500+. Car accident deductible? $500. Savings? Ha. Forget about it. A kid? LOL

By third year I feel like there's probably enough money around to save something and sure, have less stress about rent (never been a 3d yr so I don't know). By then you have about two years of biglaw left in you, if even, and any expansions of lifestyle (liberties almost everyone takes, sadly) will have to be planned.

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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby SmokeytheBear » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:55 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
bwaldorf wrote:
RSolano wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
SmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.

It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.

It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.


I still worry about/struggle to pay my bills

I still don't bring my parents to nice meals

I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them

Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save

(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)


Are you living a dramatically different lifestyle than you did in law school? (More expensive apartment, etc.) I ask because I've heard some people live very frugally (relative to colleagues) and find $180,000 more than enough money to live on and pay debt and save. It's alarming to hear that that salary is too low to support you.


If you're in a large city on the East Coast and are trying to throw 3-5k a month at loans, I could see how it would feel as if you still have to worry about money. After taxes, 180k is 110. Try to throw $40-50k a year at loans, and you're looking at around $60k a year. Certainly not nothing, but in a high COL area, it's not a lot either.


To give a broad example (non-NYC), $10k/month take home after tax and healthcare, $2k/month on rent, $1k/month on car (payments, insurance, gas, parking), $4k/month on loans, several hundred per month on fixed utilities and other costs, $800/month on groceries and household items, and you're left with ~$1.5k for drinks, going out to eat, any travel, all necessary clothes, repairs, out of pocket medical costs, gifts, ect. And realistically associates spend way more than that on those things. Not to mention the stuff of life. Part of a friend's wedding party? That's $500+ right there. Want to visit your family for thanksgiving? $500+. Car accident deductible? $500. Savings? Ha. Forget about it. A kid? LOL

By third year I feel like there's probably enough money around to save something and sure, have less stress about rent (never been a 3d yr so I don't know). By then you have about two years of biglaw left in you, if even, and any expansions of lifestyle (liberties almost everyone takes, sadly) will have to be planned.


That proposed "budget" is spending with reckless abandon. I think a smudge of prudence in there would yield a lot of free cash.

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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby landshoes » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:02 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
SmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.

It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.

It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.


I still worry about/struggle to pay my bills

I still don't bring my parents to nice meals

I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them

Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save

(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)


No it's not the same at all actually

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jbagelboy
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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:08 pm

landshoes wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
SmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.

It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.

It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.


I still worry about/struggle to pay my bills

I still don't bring my parents to nice meals

I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them

Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save

(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)


No it's not the same at all actually


No its not at all the same. I don't think it is. But for someone servicing a high loan balance living in a high CoL location, a first year in biglaw--raised in a lower income family or not--is not devoid of any financial stressors. The money is an advantage of the job but not a cure, and certainly not the best way to increase wealth (don't take on law school debt if you want to increase wealth)

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jbagelboy
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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:18 pm

I'm pulling out of a conversation I shouldn't have joined in the first place, but I just want to emphasize that the idea that these jobs provide a get-rich-quick card for someone who doesn't have a lot of money is a scam that has drawn tens of thousands into jobs they hate and filled them with regret

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby SmokeytheBear » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:19 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
landshoes wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
SmokeytheBear wrote:It is awesome not to have to worry about paying bills.

It is awesome being able to take my parents to nice meals.

It is awesome knowing that my kids won't have to deal with the same stresses that I did.


I still worry about/struggle to pay my bills

I still don't bring my parents to nice meals

I still don't feel like I can have kids because I wouldn't be able to provide for them

Biglaw doesn't confer financial security to someone with six figure student loans and high CoL. And you're only in it for a few years during which you can barely save

(As a caveat I should concede that I did not grow up "poor" relative to some posters here. But I haven't received any financial support from my family since graduating from college so in at least one sense I dealt with the same financial realities when in biglaw. Not trying to compare the circumstances overall; the expectations are certainly different.)


No it's not the same at all actually


No its not at all the same. I don't think it is. But for someone servicing a high loan balance living in a high CoL location, a first year in biglaw--raised in a lower income family or not--is not devoid of any financial stressors. The money is an advantage of the job but not a cure, and certainly not the best way to increase wealth (don't take on law school debt if you want to increase wealth)


I think you guys are kind of misunderstanding what the question being asked is.

Not having dealt with the financial stresses of being poor your whole life and then all of a sudden having financial "stresses" due to school loans while making well over $180k a year and budgeting enough for a BMW and $700 for utilities is far different than having grown up poor, graduating from law school, getting a job that pays more than you can comprehend, and simply being able to pay your bills (which include servicing a new Honda lease and not blowing $1500 a month on a lavish lifestyle).

Sure they are stressors. But they lack perspective.

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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:14 pm

ernie wrote:but how much better is 195k than 60k?


I hope you mean "195k with sticker debt" vs "60k without any debt," because 195k w/o debt is a-fucking-lot better than 60k w/o debt. Come on.

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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby Bach-City » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:15 pm

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Last edited by Bach-City on Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby elendinel » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:12 pm

Nebby wrote:
ernie wrote:Making 195k will certainly relieve money pressure, but baseline is relevant too right? Because it's not a comparison between 195k biglaw salary and pre-law school salary. It's a comparison between 195k biglaw and (hypothetically) 60k PI salary. 195k is far far better than 20k, but how much better is 195k than 60k? Especially after factoring in higher taxes on the 195k, and not having to service debt because of LRAP/PSLF?

Everyone is different, obviously. But for me at least, making (hypothetically) 60k and not having to worry about debt will put me in a much more stable financial position than I was pre-law school. The additional marginal benefit of 195k over 60k wasn't worth the costs to QOL. (For me at least; as I said, to each their own. I have friends who have families to support; of course the calculus would be far different)

This is basically my position too. 65k and no worries about student loans due to LRAP/PSLF. It's a dream combo and allows me to help out my family too.


Agree with both of you.

PeanutsNJam wrote:
ernie wrote:but how much better is 195k than 60k?


I hope you mean "195k with sticker debt" vs "60k without any debt," because 195k w/o debt is a-fucking-lot better than 60k w/o debt. Come on.


I think the point is that for someone who grew up in a family that brought in a total of $30-40k/year, sure, $195k would be awesome, but $60k would still be a huge step up, too. They can still do a lot with $60k they couldn't do when they were younger. In that sense the jump from 60k to 195k is less significant than it'd be for someone who grew up with a family that, say, brought in $100k/year (where only one salary actually gets them above the QoL they had as a child).

Another aspect of it is, some people have a point at which they can earn "too much" (i.e., where a salary would be so great they wouldn't know what to do with all the money). So while $195k is more than $60k, if someone doesn't even know what they'd do with $195k, the fact that it's mathematically more money becomes almost irrelevant. It merely becomes a larger number, not something that would actually significantly improve their life over having, say, only $100k. I'd imagine people used to being frugal probably tend to hit that threshold earlier than others.

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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby LurkerTurnedMember » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:31 pm

This is a very interesting thread and I had the same questions a while back when I was going through OCI. As a former poor person who works in big law, here is what I noticed:

It depends on what part you're talking about because some things are easier than described and some are worse (especially some people don't talk about because well off people don't have to worry about them). So on the one hand, you're right. You've worked long hours (about the same if not worse) before law school for far less and so putting in so much work for a huge amount of money is definitely not as bad for you as it is for the person who mostly did "fellowships" or "free internships" to boost their resume or this is pretty much their first adult gig. On the other hand though, it's worse in the following respects:

(1) you likely had a manual labor job, where you could essentially turn off your brain and just go through the motions for 10 to 12 hours. And when you're done, you just "clock out" and leave the work at work. Law is different. You work with your brain non-stop, which can in some regard be more tiring than physical work. And you can't just "clock out" and leave it at work. It follows you home almost all the time and even if you're not working on it you can't help but think about it, when you shower, when you watch tv, when you're having that fancy dinner with your parents, when you're shitting on the toilet, seemingly all the time. You live and breathe the work, working your brain non-stop, and everything else seems like the TV playing in the background. It sucks but it's the job.

(2) The "misfit" between you and everything at your work (the co-workers, supervisors, the clients, etc) will chip away at you over time. I'm talking about your different likes and dislikes, what you find important or trivial in life, what type of activities you like doing, literally everything is pretty much different. So it gets so annoying having to put up a fake facade all the time, and it makes everything seem like a networking event, even when you're grabbing a beer with co workers. If you're lucky, you'll find someone else who was working-class before so you could hang out with them.

(3) It'll drive you further away from your current family and friends (an extension of number 2 above). You probably noticed it during law school already. Your family has trouble understanding what you're going through, what you're telling them, conversations are getting harder, etc. Now that you'll work longer hours and be adopting to your new environment, you'll essentially be removing who you were and moving further away from them. It gets weird at times.

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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby Hikikomorist » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:16 pm

elendinel wrote:
Nebby wrote:
ernie wrote:Making 195k will certainly relieve money pressure, but baseline is relevant too right? Because it's not a comparison between 195k biglaw salary and pre-law school salary. It's a comparison between 195k biglaw and (hypothetically) 60k PI salary. 195k is far far better than 20k, but how much better is 195k than 60k? Especially after factoring in higher taxes on the 195k, and not having to service debt because of LRAP/PSLF?

Everyone is different, obviously. But for me at least, making (hypothetically) 60k and not having to worry about debt will put me in a much more stable financial position than I was pre-law school. The additional marginal benefit of 195k over 60k wasn't worth the costs to QOL. (For me at least; as I said, to each their own. I have friends who have families to support; of course the calculus would be far different)

This is basically my position too. 65k and no worries about student loans due to LRAP/PSLF. It's a dream combo and allows me to help out my family too.


Agree with both of you.

PeanutsNJam wrote:
ernie wrote:but how much better is 195k than 60k?


I hope you mean "195k with sticker debt" vs "60k without any debt," because 195k w/o debt is a-fucking-lot better than 60k w/o debt. Come on.


I think the point is that for someone who grew up in a family that brought in a total of $30-40k/year, sure, $195k would be awesome, but $60k would still be a huge step up, too. They can still do a lot with $60k they couldn't do when they were younger. In that sense the jump from 60k to 195k is less significant than it'd be for someone who grew up with a family that, say, brought in $100k/year (where only one salary actually gets them above the QoL they had as a child).

Another aspect of it is, some people have a point at which they can earn "too much" (i.e., where a salary would be so great they wouldn't know what to do with all the money). So while $195k is more than $60k, if someone doesn't even know what they'd do with $195k, the fact that it's mathematically more money becomes almost irrelevant. It merely becomes a larger number, not something that would actually significantly improve their life over having, say, only $100k. I'd imagine people used to being frugal probably tend to hit that threshold earlier than others.

I have trouble believing this person (presumably someone with a college degree living in a city) exists. We're not talking about that much money, especially once you factor in taxes. No one could retire off of that amount, for example.

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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby Bach-City » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:20 pm

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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby Bach-City » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:22 pm

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ernie
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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby ernie » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:26 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
ernie wrote:but how much better is 195k than 60k?


I hope you mean "195k with sticker debt" vs "60k without any debt," because 195k w/o debt is a-fucking-lot better than 60k w/o debt. Come on.


ernie wrote:Making 195k will certainly relieve money pressure, but baseline is relevant too right? Because it's not a comparison between 195k biglaw salary and pre-law school salary. It's a comparison between 195k biglaw and (hypothetically) 60k PI salary. 195k is far far better than 20k, but how much better is 195k than 60k? Especially after factoring in higher taxes on the 195k, and not having to service debt because of LRAP/PSLF?

Reading comp, how does it work

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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby Hikikomorist » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:27 pm

Bach-City wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
elendinel wrote:
Nebby wrote:
ernie wrote:Making 195k will certainly relieve money pressure, but baseline is relevant too right? Because it's not a comparison between 195k biglaw salary and pre-law school salary. It's a comparison between 195k biglaw and (hypothetically) 60k PI salary. 195k is far far better than 20k, but how much better is 195k than 60k? Especially after factoring in higher taxes on the 195k, and not having to service debt because of LRAP/PSLF?

Everyone is different, obviously. But for me at least, making (hypothetically) 60k and not having to worry about debt will put me in a much more stable financial position than I was pre-law school. The additional marginal benefit of 195k over 60k wasn't worth the costs to QOL. (For me at least; as I said, to each their own. I have friends who have families to support; of course the calculus would be far different)

This is basically my position too. 65k and no worries about student loans due to LRAP/PSLF. It's a dream combo and allows me to help out my family too.


Agree with both of you.

PeanutsNJam wrote:
ernie wrote:but how much better is 195k than 60k?


I hope you mean "195k with sticker debt" vs "60k without any debt," because 195k w/o debt is a-fucking-lot better than 60k w/o debt. Come on.


I think the point is that for someone who grew up in a family that brought in a total of $30-40k/year, sure, $195k would be awesome, but $60k would still be a huge step up, too. They can still do a lot with $60k they couldn't do when they were younger. In that sense the jump from 60k to 195k is less significant than it'd be for someone who grew up with a family that, say, brought in $100k/year (where only one salary actually gets them above the QoL they had as a child).

Another aspect of it is, some people have a point at which they can earn "too much" (i.e., where a salary would be so great they wouldn't know what to do with all the money). So while $195k is more than $60k, if someone doesn't even know what they'd do with $195k, the fact that it's mathematically more money becomes almost irrelevant. It merely becomes a larger number, not something that would actually significantly improve their life over having, say, only $100k. I'd imagine people used to being frugal probably tend to hit that threshold earlier than others.

I have trouble believing this person (presumably someone with a college degree living in a city) exists. We're not talking about that much money, especially once you factor in taxes. No one could retire off of that amount, for example.


Believe it. I'm not the OP but in a similar
situation and I genuinely don't know how to spend that much money. I spend just the money I get in loans for COL without thinking and I end up with a surplus. I have no idea how I'm going to spend that money, especially since I'm going to a market with significantly less COL.

But there are other, better options.

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elendinel
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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby elendinel » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:44 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
elendinel wrote:I think the point is that for someone who grew up in a family that brought in a total of $30-40k/year, sure, $195k would be awesome, but $60k would still be a huge step up, too. They can still do a lot with $60k they couldn't do when they were younger. In that sense the jump from 60k to 195k is less significant than it'd be for someone who grew up with a family that, say, brought in $100k/year (where only one salary actually gets them above the QoL they had as a child).

Another aspect of it is, some people have a point at which they can earn "too much" (i.e., where a salary would be so great they wouldn't know what to do with all the money). So while $195k is more than $60k, if someone doesn't even know what they'd do with $195k, the fact that it's mathematically more money becomes almost irrelevant. It merely becomes a larger number, not something that would actually significantly improve their life over having, say, only $100k. I'd imagine people used to being frugal probably tend to hit that threshold earlier than others.


I have trouble believing this person (presumably someone with a college degree living in a city) exists. We're not talking about that much money, especially once you factor in taxes. No one could retire off of that amount, for example.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Never change, TLS...

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Pneumonia
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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby Pneumonia » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:46 pm

Hikikomorist wrote: But there are other, better options.

But the original point was about QoL. Arguably—and I think definitely for the discussion in this thread—saving and investing have a minor effect on QoL once they are occurring at a level sufficient to maintain one's lifestyle upon retirement.

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Hikikomorist
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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby Hikikomorist » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:17 pm

Pneumonia wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote: But there are other, better options.

But the original point was about QoL. Arguably—and I think definitely for the discussion in this thread—saving and investing have a minor effect on QoL once they are occurring at a level sufficient to maintain one's lifestyle upon retirement.

How soon one can reasonably expect to retire probably has an impact on one's QoL, right? Like, I'm going to be happier if I know I can retire next year than if I expect to have to work until I'm 70.

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elendinel
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Re: Is the big law experience different for people who were poor before law school?

Postby elendinel » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:31 am

Hikikomorist wrote:
Pneumonia wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote: But there are other, better options.

But the original point was about QoL. Arguably—and I think definitely for the discussion in this thread—saving and investing have a minor effect on QoL once they are occurring at a level sufficient to maintain one's lifestyle upon retirement.

How soon one can reasonably expect to retire probably has an impact on one's QoL, right? Like, I'm going to be happier if I know I can retire next year than if I expect to have to work until I'm 70.


Is that because it's objectively better to retire early, or because biglaw sucks so much you'd hate to have to do it until you're 70, tho?




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