Help! Law Firm Fit!

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Texas2Step
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Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby Texas2Step » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:29 am

Hi Everyone!

I have a question about BigLaw culture. I am fairly certain that I will need to work in biglaw for a couple years to pay off educational loans. However, I want to make sure that I can find a firm that is a good culture fit. I was wondering if anyone out there knew of a V40 firm NYC or DC office with the following traits:

• Minimal face time
• Tolerates and (ideally) welcomes introverts (what I mean by this is that one can lock themselves in their office all day, do their work, go home, and repeat the cycle without participating in firm social events or lunches)
• Intense
• Nerdy

Assume that I do not want to make partner and am attending law school in New Haven. Thanks!

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blueapple
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby blueapple » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:35 am

I have no advice but you can just say you go to Yale.

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FSK
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby FSK » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:37 am

Wilmer DC

Texas2Step
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby Texas2Step » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:37 am

blueapple wrote:I have no advice but you can just say you go to Yale.


I was trying not to be a D-bag about it - there are other schools out there that provide a good if not better legal education....

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magnum_law
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby magnum_law » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:39 am

blueapple wrote:I have no advice but you can just say you go to Yale.


Actually OP attends Albertus Magnus College of preLaw.

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UVA2B
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby UVA2B » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:47 am

Texas2Step wrote:
blueapple wrote:I have no advice but you can just say you go to Yale.


I was trying not to be a D-bag about it - there are other schools out there that provide a good if not better legal education....


Yeah, but this very attitude is pretty D-bagish. People on TLS have a pretty significant hard-on for Yale because it's just a different law school than others in the country, but next to no one has some inferiority complex where mentioning you go to Yale will be at all objectionable.

And why V40?

Texas2Step
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby Texas2Step » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:52 am

UVA2B wrote:
Texas2Step wrote:
blueapple wrote:I have no advice but you can just say you go to Yale.


I was trying not to be a D-bag about it - there are other schools out there that provide a good if not better legal education....


Yeah, but this very attitude is pretty D-bagish. People on TLS have a pretty significant hard-on for Yale because it's just a different law school than others in the country, but next to no one has some inferiority complex where mentioning you go to Yale will be at all objectionable.

And why V40?


Okay - I will note that next time. Thanks! I say V40 because I don't know much about firms outside this range. But, if people do know, I would be glad to research them and learn (as long as compensation is market)! If it is not, the firm would need to be an appellate shop...

Anonymous User
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:52 am

Cleary DC if you're ok with general lit, corp or antitrust. There is no pressure to attend events or socialize.

RaceJudicata
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby RaceJudicata » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:59 am

I'd narrowly tailor your search to the V28-34.

Texas2Step
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby Texas2Step » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:Cleary DC if you're ok with general lit, corp or antitrust. There is no pressure to attend events or socialize.


Thank You!

Texas2Step
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby Texas2Step » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:00 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:I'd narrowly tailor your search to the V28-34.



Why so specific?

lolwat
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby lolwat » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:03 pm

Texas2Step wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:I'd narrowly tailor your search to the V28-34.



Why so specific?


I can't answer your original question, but as to this one, some people are just trolling you.

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barkschool
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby barkschool » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:05 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:I'd narrowly tailor your search to the V28-34.


Race, I don't mean to be rude here but there is a formula that goes into these kinds of things.

You need to take the ranking reviews and instead of multiplying by three then adding 25 (like you did here), you should use prime numbers only in adding the summary breakdown coefficient.

Using the correct math, V19-23 is really a better bet for him.

As for fit, make sure to go over the education section of your resume and play down how humble you are. Harvard kids may be smart, but they also share residence with Ben Affleck. Therefore, they have character. You, need to branch out and find some truly Connecticut bases to reach back to. Talk a bit (but not to an abuse amout), about what type of winter jacket you bought upon moving up here, and how Fall when the leaves change is your favorite season.

Fit is really about finding out what make you, more like the people you want to like you, then say, what you like about yourself about you.

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UVA2B
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby UVA2B » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:08 pm

Texas2Step wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:I'd narrowly tailor your search to the V28-34.



Why so specific?


It's because breaking down by vault ranking is at best a rough proxy for looking at the firms you should target. One of the most elite boutiques in the country just fell out of the V100 (Keker SF) this year. The rankings won't be at all informative for the type of jobs you're looking for (introverted work scene or robust appellate practice). For instance, Jones Day DC or Mayer Brown DC have really impressive appellate practices, but where they fall on the Vault rankings has comparatively little to do with that.

ETA: if not already clear, race was making fun of the random V## thing

Texas2Step
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby Texas2Step » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:50 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Texas2Step wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:I'd narrowly tailor your search to the V28-34.



Why so specific?


It's because breaking down by vault ranking is at best a rough proxy for looking at the firms you should target. One of the most elite boutiques in the country just fell out of the V100 (Keker SF) this year. The rankings won't be at all informative for the type of jobs you're looking for (introverted work scene or robust appellate practice). For instance, Jones Day DC or Mayer Brown DC have really impressive appellate practices, but where they fall on the Vault rankings has comparatively little to do with that.

ETA: if not already clear, race was making fun of the random V## thing


That makes sense. I have Cleary (DC), Wilmer (DC), and Baker Botts. Does anyone have any thoughts on Debevoise, Cravath, S&C, or Quinn Emmanuel (NYC)?

Anonymous User
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:56 pm

I'm at a firm where 99% of the people are nice but I'm stuck with the 1%. All it takes is that one person to make you miserable.

Texas2Step
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby Texas2Step » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm at a firm where 99% of the people are nice but I'm stuck with the 1%. All it takes is that one person to make you miserable.


That's definitely true. But, maybe that one person is not a culture fit or is silent or misunderstood? Anyway, do you have a firm suggestion?

tomwatts
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby tomwatts » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:18 pm

Texas2Step wrote:Hi Everyone!

I have a question about BigLaw culture. I am fairly certain that I will need to work in biglaw for a couple years to pay off educational loans. However, I want to make sure that I can find a firm that is a good culture fit. I was wondering if anyone out there knew of a V40 firm NYC or DC office with the following traits:

• Minimal face time
• Tolerates and (ideally) welcomes introverts (what I mean by this is that one can lock themselves in their office all day, do their work, go home, and repeat the cycle without participating in firm social events or lunches)
• Intense
• Nerdy

Assume that I do not want to make partner and am attending law school in New Haven. Thanks!

You've basically just described every appellate practice group ever (other than maybe the face time thing, but probably even that), and if you go to Yale, you actually have a decent shot at appellate. They're almost all based in DC, so I'd suggest gunning for pretty much any appellate practice group in DC.

Texas2Step
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby Texas2Step » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:23 pm

tomwatts wrote:
Texas2Step wrote:Hi Everyone!

I have a question about BigLaw culture. I am fairly certain that I will need to work in biglaw for a couple years to pay off educational loans. However, I want to make sure that I can find a firm that is a good culture fit. I was wondering if anyone out there knew of a V40 firm NYC or DC office with the following traits:

• Minimal face time
• Tolerates and (ideally) welcomes introverts (what I mean by this is that one can lock themselves in their office all day, do their work, go home, and repeat the cycle without participating in firm social events or lunches)
• Intense
• Nerdy

Assume that I do not want to make partner and am attending law school in New Haven. Thanks!

You've basically just described every appellate practice group ever (other than maybe the face time thing, but probably even that), and if you go to Yale, you actually have a decent shot at appellate. They're almost all based in DC, so I'd suggest gunning for pretty much any appellate practice group in DC.



Thanks! Outside of clerking, being on Law Review, participating in Moot Court, getting good grades, and getting an extra degree abroad, is there anything I can do to improve my chances?

Anonymous User
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:45 pm

Texas2Step wrote:• Minimal face time
• Tolerates and (ideally) welcomes introverts (what I mean by this is that one can lock themselves in their office all day, do their work, go home, and repeat the cycle without participating in firm social events or lunches)
• Intense
• Nerdy

In all seriousness basically every NYC biglaw firm is like this. As a junior there may be some expectation of face time but once you develop a reputation of competence you can do whatever you want, and people are unlikely to notice or care.

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Mullens
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby Mullens » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:05 pm

Texas2Step wrote:
tomwatts wrote:
Texas2Step wrote:Hi Everyone!

I have a question about BigLaw culture. I am fairly certain that I will need to work in biglaw for a couple years to pay off educational loans. However, I want to make sure that I can find a firm that is a good culture fit. I was wondering if anyone out there knew of a V40 firm NYC or DC office with the following traits:

• Minimal face time
• Tolerates and (ideally) welcomes introverts (what I mean by this is that one can lock themselves in their office all day, do their work, go home, and repeat the cycle without participating in firm social events or lunches)
• Intense
• Nerdy

Assume that I do not want to make partner and am attending law school in New Haven. Thanks!

You've basically just described every appellate practice group ever (other than maybe the face time thing, but probably even that), and if you go to Yale, you actually have a decent shot at appellate. They're almost all based in DC, so I'd suggest gunning for pretty much any appellate practice group in DC.



Thanks! Outside of clerking, being on Law Review, participating in Moot Court, getting good grades, and getting an extra degree abroad, is there anything I can do to improve my chances?


I don't think getting an extra degree abroad helps improve your chances. Might decrease them if anything.

The #1 thing you can do to improve your chances is to practice interviewing. A lot. If you're introverted then it might be more of a struggle for you. You don't need to change your personality, but you need to make sure you're the best interviewer you can be. Practice answers to common questions so they seem truthful and genuine (it sounds like you wanna bail from biglaw asap. Don't let that come across in any interviews, regardless of how true it is). Research the firms and get non-generic reasons why you want to work there. Do practice interviews with friends, career services, anyone who will listen.

Texas2Step
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby Texas2Step » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Texas2Step wrote:• Minimal face time
• Tolerates and (ideally) welcomes introverts (what I mean by this is that one can lock themselves in their office all day, do their work, go home, and repeat the cycle without participating in firm social events or lunches)
• Intense
• Nerdy

In all seriousness basically every NYC biglaw firm is like this. As a junior there may be some expectation of face time but once you develop a reputation of competence you can do whatever you want, and people are unlikely to notice or care.


Thanks! If I could get any appellate work whether that be public interest or biglaw, I would prefer that over anything else. But hopefully, NYC bidding at OCI goes well.

Texas2Step
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby Texas2Step » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:09 pm

Mullens wrote:
Texas2Step wrote:
tomwatts wrote:
Texas2Step wrote:Hi Everyone!

I have a question about BigLaw culture. I am fairly certain that I will need to work in biglaw for a couple years to pay off educational loans. However, I want to make sure that I can find a firm that is a good culture fit. I was wondering if anyone out there knew of a V40 firm NYC or DC office with the following traits:

• Minimal face time
• Tolerates and (ideally) welcomes introverts (what I mean by this is that one can lock themselves in their office all day, do their work, go home, and repeat the cycle without participating in firm social events or lunches)
• Intense
• Nerdy

Assume that I do not want to make partner and am attending law school in New Haven. Thanks!

You've basically just described every appellate practice group ever (other than maybe the face time thing, but probably even that), and if you go to Yale, you actually have a decent shot at appellate. They're almost all based in DC, so I'd suggest gunning for pretty much any appellate practice group in DC.



Thanks! Outside of clerking, being on Law Review, participating in Moot Court, getting good grades, and getting an extra degree abroad, is there anything I can do to improve my chances?


I don't think getting an extra degree abroad helps improve your chances. Might decrease them if anything.

The #1 thing you can do to improve your chances is to practice interviewing. A lot. If you're introverted then it might be more of a struggle for you. You don't need to change your personality, but you need to make sure you're the best interviewer you can be. Practice answers to common questions so they seem truthful and genuine (it sounds like you wanna bail from biglaw asap. Don't let that come across in any interviews, regardless of how true it is). Research the firms and get non-generic reasons why you want to work there. Do practice interviews with friends, career services, anyone who will listen.


Thanks! Interviewing will be a struggle because sometimes I can't connect with people I meet out of the blue...Are you sure an Oxford BCL would not hurt?

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby PeanutsNJam » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:19 pm

Apparently Jenner & Block DC is a favorite among Yale students. They had like 6 summers from Yale or something out of a 11 summer class, and the others were from Harvard and Stanford only.

Definitely interview at Williams & Connolly and look for things like closed doors/empty offices. Some firms you interview at will have mostly closed doors--others will have mostly open doors.

I know Sidley DC has a good appellate practice, but I have no idea about how social their DC office is.

Texas2Step
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Re: Help! Law Firm Fit!

Postby Texas2Step » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:30 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:Apparently Jenner & Block DC is a favorite among Yale students. They had like 6 summers from Yale or something out of a 11 summer class, and the others were from Harvard and Stanford only.

Definitely interview at Williams & Connolly and look for things like closed doors/empty offices. Some firms you interview at will have mostly closed doors--others will have mostly open doors.

I know Sidley DC has a good appellate practice, but I have no idea about how social their DC office is.


Thank you! Are these firms going to require all H's because I'm trying to have fun.....




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