Georgia State U Law Forum

[Jesw]

Recently got into GSU and am in Undergrad at UGA. I've heard from several of my UGA law friends that I should do GSU instead of UGA because I'll have a better chance of graduating top 10% and thus, getting a job. I'm torn between UGA and GSU because I'm tired of Athens and I'd love to live in ATL for awhile.

All of my 3L friends argue that it's better to be in the top 10% if you want a job, and that many of them that are top 25% at UGA can't find anything while their friends at GSU who are top 5% are already signed somewhere.

Any one else heard this advice?

[ugawarrent]

The poor job prospects of your friends have more to do with the economy and legal job market right now than Georgia law school selection or class placement. In years past, top 10% at GSU would have opened doors to the same, selective employers that a top 25% would have at UGA. Now, the pickings are slim. Highly ranked students at all the schools here in Georgia are left saying, "I did what I was supposed to, I got good grades that placed me in the top X%, and I still don't have a job."

That said, many law students at Emory paid $30–40K per year to not find a job, while those at GSU have paid only around $10K. Less debt at graduations opens its own doors because you can afford to enter a job paying less money. If you are only going to law school if you can make over a hundred thousand dollars a year, then you need to rethink things in light of the new reality of large law firm practice. Even if you have a "better" chance of graduating in the top 10% at GSU--and that is a questionable assertion--there are no guarantees

I am a student and GSU and I really enjoy it. It was the right place place for me considering all the factors. You should think about where you want to study, what you want to do when you graduate, and how much you want to pay. One thing from your post that stood out to me was your statement that you were "tired" of Athens (blasphemy!) and would love to live in Atlanta "for a while." Something to consider is that if you really are tired of Athens, then that may affect your focus and ability to work to get to the top of the class. Your head has to be in the right place to achieve lofty goals. Second, think about where you would like to live and practice law 3, 5, 10 years after you graduate law school. GSU is a much younger school than UGA, and is still building its reputation. Within Atlanta, we have a good reputation (though of course large deficit in senior partners, compared to UGA/Emory). But the reach outside of Atlanta is not as strong.

Best of luck in your decision. If you really convinced you want to be a lawyer, then you will do fine wherever you go. The recession caused many of us--at all schools--to re-evaluate whether this was really something we wanted to do and how far we were willing to go to pursue this career. It has been a rewarding experience.

[T_Easy]

Hopefully, by the time we graduate in 2013-2014, job prospects will be better.

I'm in the opposite situation. I went to GSU for undergrad, and I'm tired of Atlanta. I will be attending UGA Law this fall.

[Jesw]

The poor job prospects of your friends have more to do with the economy and legal job market right now than Georgia law school selection or class placement. In years past, top 10% at GSU would have opened doors to the same, selective employers that a top 25% would have at UGA. Now, the pickings are slim. Highly ranked students at all the schools here in Georgia are left saying, "I did what I was supposed to, I got good grades that placed me in the top X%, and I still don't have a job."

That said, many law students at Emory paid $30–40K per year to not find a job, while those at GSU have paid only around $10K. Less debt at graduations opens its own doors because you can afford to enter a job paying less money. If you are only going to law school if you can make over a hundred thousand dollars a year, then you need to rethink things in light of the new reality of large law firm practice. Even if you have a "better" chance of graduating in the top 10% at GSU--and that is a questionable assertion--there are no guarantees

I am a student and GSU and I really enjoy it. It was the right place place for me considering all the factors. You should think about where you want to study, what you want to do when you graduate, and how much you want to pay. One thing from your post that stood out to me was your statement that you were "tired" of Athens (blasphemy!) and would love to live in Atlanta "for a while." Something to consider is that if you really are tired of Athens, then that may affect your focus and ability to work to get to the top of the class. Your head has to be in the right place to achieve lofty goals. Second, think about where you would like to live and practice law 3, 5, 10 years after you graduate law school. GSU is a much younger school than UGA, and is still building its reputation. Within Atlanta, we have a good reputation (though of course large deficit in senior partners, compared to UGA/Emory). But the reach outside of Atlanta is not as strong.

Best of luck in your decision. If you really convinced you want to be a lawyer, then you will do fine wherever you go. The recession caused many of us--at all schools--to re-evaluate whether this was really something we wanted to do and how far we were willing to go to pursue this career. It has been a rewarding experience.

Thanks for the advice! I am originally from the metro area, so I know I want to stay in GA and I meant I'd like to live in the city for awhile and then hopefully commute in later in life. As much as I love Athens, I am really struggling with the idea of staying here for another 3 years; I already am feeling the burnout of 18-year-olds running around town and just need a change... I just think ATL will provide me the "grown-up" life to keep me focused, if that makes any sense at all?

I've heard really good things about the professors and that makes me really like GSU. Can you second that?

[Connelly]

Has anyone at GSU taken a look at the grade conversion now that we're getting grades on the new system? It looks like the old grades that got converted might have been converted to a scale with a much lower mean than what we're getting graded on now. We won't know for certain until the new grade book drops. This would most directly affect PT students (as more of their "old" grades will be compared to students who have more of the "new" grades), but there are significant implications for FT students as well, considering some of the reasons for the change.

[Sky'stheLimit]

I was put on hold I thought i would be in....

[Connelly]

Wow...new grade book dropped. Most classes seemed to go to the higher available mean...meaning law review possibilities probably disappeared in the conversion process for many part-time students. Fantastic. I guess it'd be a little speculative to convert the grade conversion into lifetime earning potential lost.

[artexprt]

I was put on hold I thought i would be in....

Did you get the "we need a second review letter"? I did and was a little surprised, as it came on the same day as my Emory scolly $$$ letter. Do they place preference on in-staters like UNC does?

[lawschoolstudent85]

/.

[iShotFirst]

Me too, letter in the mail, held for second review ..... got it right alongside my UGA acceptance letter hah.

[LadyTarHeelian]

Me too, letter in the mail, held for second review ..... got it right alongside my UGA acceptance letter hah.

What sense does that make? Congrats on UGA LOL

[southernboy]

yeah i got my hold letter today too. Some stuff about "second review". Is this the same thing as a waitlist? I thought I would have gotten in, but then again I'm from out of state.

[mgbp0]

I'm pretty sure GSU does not give preference to people who are in-state. They say this on their website, but it also makes sense logically- they would like to attract and create a more diverse class composed of people from around the country. On a more practical note, out of state tuition is much more than in-state tuition, so the school would want to accept more people who can pay a higher price tag.

More than likely, the holds are the result of the exponential increase the school has had in applications. I applied last year in October, and it took them until February to let me know they had made a decision, and my scores were very much above their average. I remember talking to someone in January who basically told me admissions was drowning in applications and they were incredibly behind. I think the most reasonable explanation for people being put on the waitlist or on hold is that they are trying to sort through all of the applications (which supposedly they do in the order in which they are received.......)

[iShotFirst]

Me too, letter in the mail, held for second review ..... got it right alongside my UGA acceptance letter hah.

What sense does that make? Congrats on UGA LOL

yeah i got my hold letter today too. Some stuff about "second review". Is this the same thing as a waitlist? I thought I would have gotten in, but then again I'm from out of state.

Thanks, it kinda threw me for a loop too, UGA is great although it'd be nice to be in Atlanta too hah. I dont think second review is waitlist, more like a hold I guess? I wonder how many people get out of that and end up getting in ... after first seat deposit maybe?

[Drockman]

I was accepted about a month ago, the only reason i applied was because I would get in-state tuition and if i didn't get into UGA it would be a back up. But I have also been accepted to UGA, so I was just gonna withdraw from GSU without a thought. But today, I got a letter in mail from GSU Law, offering me Dean's scholarship, 5K first year with a 2K stipend and full tuition 2nd and 3rd year, all I will have to do or I should say, I will have an opportunity to assist a professor in his/her scholarly research. I haven't come across anyone else getting the same letter in the mail. Did anyone else get the same letter, and one more question for everyone, what should i do in terms of UGA or GSU?

[ugawarrent]

offering me Dean's scholarship, 5K first year with a 2K stipend and full tuition 2nd and 3rd year, all I will have to do or I should say, I will have an opportunity to assist a professor in his/her scholarly research.

Congrats on getting in and on the scholarship offer! I did want to comment on what ii thought was a kinda clever thing they did though... The $2k stipend + full tuition 2L and 3L is basically a normal Graduate Research Assistant (GRA) position on top of a half tuition scholarship--of course, tuition beig around $10K, they are essentially giving you that $5k all three years.

GRA positions are good to have and are somewhat, but not very, competitive to get. The compensation for the 10 hours/week work is a half-tuition waiver plus $1000 each semester. So, they are telling you, "Come to GSU and we'll gurantee (maybe require?) a GRA position for you all four semesters you're eligible after 1L, and we'll kick in an extra other half of tuition as a real 'scholarship' because we like you." not a bad deal, all in all, though I don't know of anyone that has done (or wanted to) a gra for two whole years...

You might ask for clarification on whether the research assistant position is (1) "required," (2) "guaranteed, but optional" if you want the extra half-tuition + stipend, or (3) just an "opportunity" to get the extra money (and you have to compete like he other students thAt want one-not too hard but def not same as #2). I threw that last one in based on your original post.

This slight change in the picture of what they're offering is still a good deal, and I dint know if it would sway you from UGA. Your decision should be heavily influenced by what you think you might do after, IMHO. But definitely consider that jobs are scare FOR NOW, and a very low debt on graduation can open up. Lot of possibilities for you to take a job you might not otherwise be able to "afford" if you have a big student loan payment to make...

[thekingiv]

Good question! I'd like to know that, too...as well as where students live in Atlanta. do they stay outside the city and commute (MARTA) or do they live in Atlanta?

Students live all over Atlanta and the surrounding area. The perimeter would be like dowtown midtown but are extremely expensive. You can expand out a little bit and pay considerably less. GSU is largely a commuter school. Some people take marta some don't. Parking isn't a problem as we can park at Turner Field for free, pay to park in the parking decks etc... MARTA is a problem all on its own. I live about 10 miles from school and it takes an hour to get there but that's Atlanta traffic for ya.

At GSU, everyone is pretty much apathetic and my experience working at the law library proved to be no exception. There isn't ANY real sense of community here. I worked on the weekends too so I was really able to chat it up with students since my supervisor wasn't there. It's an older more mature crowd. These people have jobs, families, and are just trying to get that degree and get out of here (similar to UG). The workload is intense here though. People underrate it. People would have their set study groups or isolate themselves. And the law library is HORRIBLE. It floods on a regular basis (all of the buildings on our campus used to be parking garages & the library is on p1). It's dark and dated. The whole building should be condemned but they have reinovated the bathrooms because they said they want them to look good for moot court visitors and important people. Smart thinking, people do have to go to the bathroom. Also, if you're not in the top 25% a job making more than $80,000 seems hard to come by from the people I talked to. They told me about stiff competition from Emory and UGA grads. I always thought being in Atlanta would put them at number 1 but it doesn't. To their benefit, a lot of the govt jobs are filled with GSU grads since we're in the same neighborhood.

I have a question about this. Turner Field is over 2 miles away from the Law School isn't it? That's a long way to walk for free parking.

[ugawarrent]

There is a GSU shuttle bus that goes to the Turner Lots. I don't personally know any law students that use is (though perhaps the original poster did?). Most people I know park in one of the decks right by the law school building or take Marta.

[thekingiv]

The poor job prospects of your friends have more to do with the economy and legal job market right now than Georgia law school selection or class placement. In years past, top 10% at GSU would have opened doors to the same, selective employers that a top 25% would have at UGA. Now, the pickings are slim. Highly ranked students at all the schools here in Georgia are left saying, "I did what I was supposed to, I got good grades that placed me in the top X%, and I still don't have a job."

That said, many law students at Emory paid $30–40K per year to not find a job, while those at GSU have paid only around $10K. Less debt at graduations opens its own doors because you can afford to enter a job paying less money. If you are only going to law school if you can make over a hundred thousand dollars a year, then you need to rethink things in light of the new reality of large law firm practice. Even if you have a "better" chance of graduating in the top 10% at GSU--and that is a questionable assertion--there are no guarantees

I am a student and GSU and I really enjoy it. It was the right place place for me considering all the factors. You should think about where you want to study, what you want to do when you graduate, and how much you want to pay. One thing from your post that stood out to me was your statement that you were "tired" of Athens (blasphemy!) and would love to live in Atlanta "for a while." Something to consider is that if you really are tired of Athens, then that may affect your focus and ability to work to get to the top of the class. Your head has to be in the right place to achieve lofty goals. Second, think about where you would like to live and practice law 3, 5, 10 years after you graduate law school. GSU is a much younger school than UGA, and is still building its reputation. Within Atlanta, we have a good reputation (though of course large deficit in senior partners, compared to UGA/Emory). But the reach outside of Atlanta is not as strong.

Best of luck in your decision. If you really convinced you want to be a lawyer, then you will do fine wherever you go. The recession caused many of us--at all schools--to re-evaluate whether this was really something we wanted to do and how far we were willing to go to pursue this career. It has been a rewarding experience.

Thanks for the advice! I am originally from the metro area, so I know I want to stay in GA and I meant I'd like to live in the city for awhile and then hopefully commute in later in life. As much as I love Athens, I am really struggling with the idea of staying here for another 3 years; I already am feeling the burnout of 18-year-olds running around town and just need a change... I just think ATL will provide me the "grown-up" life to keep me focused, if that makes any sense at all?

I've heard really good things about the professors and that makes me really like GSU. Can you second that?

I went to UGA also. I haven't heard back from UGA, but regardless of whether I'm accepted or not, I don't have much of a desire to spend another 3 years in Athens.

[thekingiv]

There is a GSU shuttle bus that goes to the Turner Lots. I don't personally know any law students that use is (though perhaps the original poster did?). Most people I know park in one of the decks right by the law school building or take Marta.

Interesting. So I guess you are at the mercy of how often the shuttle goes there in the afternoon as to when you can leave.

How much is that deck right next to the Law School? What is the usual schedule like for a 1L? More specifically when do most get there/leave. I've lived in Atlanta since I was 2, so I am pretty familiar with the traffic patterns!

If I go to GSU, I will probably live in Buckhead, which won't be too bad of a drive.

[ugawarrent]

So I guess you are at the mercy of how often the shuttle goes there in the afternoon as to when you can leave.

I guess so, but that is (1) in no way different than any other public transit system, including at most universities, and (2) what you get for parking for free.

How much is that deck right next to the Law School?

See http://www.gsu.edu/auxiliary/29374.html (the Student Parking page). The nearest decks are S, N, and M is the "flat fee" per semester deck that you have to stand in long lines to try and get a permit. I think it's worth it.

What is the usual schedule like for a 1L? More specifically when do most get there/leave.

See http://law.gsu.edu/courses/schedule.php and view the Fall or Spring schedules for the past several years. You can see that the 1L doctrinal courses have pretty standard start times. It depends on whether you have any night classes your first year. But assuming not, 1L classes generally start at 9am and end by mid/late afternoon. You can leave whenever you like, based on your own study schedule, habits, and locations. The good thing about law school is you can pretty much work as much or as little as you like!

[sgd]

My profile still says "No Decision At This Time." Does this mean I have been placed on the waitlist or that my application still hasn't been reviewed?

[mas2488]

Mine says that and I am held for further review.

[CaptainSemantics]

You all are lucky I presume...I didn't get my hold letter until the beginning of April, but it's dated March 26. (long story about a crazy neighbor) Seems like a quick turnaround time to hit that goal of knowing by April 15th they mentioned in the letter. Has anyone with a hold letter received any more communication thus far?

FWIW, I have that blasted red/bold-faced "No Decision at This Time" status online.

[UGA2010]

Any suggestions on whether to sight up for Day Only classes or Day/Evening classes as a full time student? An associate dean at the reception recommended taking day/evening because of the smaller class sizes, but I'm under the impression that then you have to register for day AND evening classes,and I don't know if that would be inconvenient or something.