Question regarding seriousness of job offer

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Thelaw23
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby Thelaw23 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:49 pm

Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:Completely off-topic, but can someone answer his/her Suits remarks? With Harvey going ADA-> BigLaw? It's, like most of the show, super unlikely, right?

I don't understand why it would be easy to go SEC Enforcer-> Big Law but not Manhattan ADA-> Big Law.


I don't think it's super unlikely at all. White collar defense seems to be full of former-prosecutors. A bunch of AUSAs go corporate as well.



I'm assuming you would have to be from a prestigious DA office, though.

It's just, for someone who wants to do trial work later, it would be much easier going from ADA-> Big Law than Big Law-> ADA, I feel like.

tomwatts
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby tomwatts » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:51 pm

Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:White collar defense seems to be full of former-prosecutors.

This is true, but it's generally full of former federal prosecutors, not state prosecutors. I don't know why, but I've come across plenty of former AUSAs in biglaw white collar criminal defense, but zero ADAs. That's not to say that it never happens, just that I think it's a fair bit less common. And, again, I don't know why.

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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:55 pm

Thelaw23 wrote:
Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:Completely off-topic, but can someone answer his/her Suits remarks? With Harvey going ADA-> BigLaw? It's, like most of the show, super unlikely, right?

I don't understand why it would be easy to go SEC Enforcer-> Big Law but not Manhattan ADA-> Big Law.


I don't think it's super unlikely at all. White collar defense seems to be full of former-prosecutors. A bunch of AUSAs go corporate as well.



I'm assuming you would have to be from a prestigious DA office, though.

It's just, for someone who wants to do trial work later, it would be much easier going from ADA-> Big Law than Big Law-> ADA, I feel like.


Oh, yeah I was thinking Manhattan DA. I'm assuming that an ADA from Laramie Wyoming will have trouble cracking into BigLaw.

I'm not sure about other markets, but from my experiences with the DA and USA offices in NY, seems like almost all of the DAs/AUSAs come from biglaw. However, a bunch of them go back to Biglaw after a couple of years.

career path seems to be: Law School -> BigLaw -> DA/AUSA -> BigLaw (most likely returning as a Counsel or Partner).

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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:58 pm

tomwatts wrote:
Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:White collar defense seems to be full of former-prosecutors.

This is true, but it's generally full of former federal prosecutors, not state prosecutors. I don't know why, but I've come across plenty of former AUSAs in biglaw white collar criminal defense, but zero ADAs. That's not to say that it never happens, just that I think it's a fair bit less common. And, again, I don't know why.


Ah yeah I agree with you on that 100%.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:58 pm

Biglaw tends to appear in federal court, and ADAs are state. It's not that there's no overlap, but especially starting out as an ADA you do cases that aren't pertinent to biglaw (it's going to take a while to get up to complex financial crimes).

I'm not saying no one ever jumps from ADA to biglaw (there was a TLS grad who was getting recruited by a local firm to make that jump), but they tend to reward very different skills. An ADA is going to be in court all day (many days, anyway), is required to think on their feet and fly by the seat of their pants, runs their own cases from top to bottom, and works with state police, victims, etc. Biglaw associates (generally) do a LOT of writing and research, do tasks that other people assign to them, don't get to so much as examine a witness until they've been in the job for years, and have to keep clients happy. My sense is also that biglaw cases are much less likely to ever go to trial. So even though ADAs get great courtroom skills, it's not exactly what biglaw is looking for. (Though again, I'm not saying it's impossible.)

(The above is specific to ADAs, not addressing AUSAs.)

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:00 pm

tomwatts wrote:
Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:White collar defense seems to be full of former-prosecutors.

This is true, but it's generally full of former federal prosecutors, not state prosecutors. I don't know why, but I've come across plenty of former AUSAs in biglaw white collar criminal defense, but zero ADAs. That's not to say that it never happens, just that I think it's a fair bit less common. And, again, I don't know why.

I just think it's who prosecutes what. Much of the point of having former AUSAs is that they know how federal court works and how USAOs operate (and they probably also know the AUSAs on the case)and how to negotiate that for a client. State prosecutors aren't really in that position.

ToGetIntoTheBoysHole
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby ToGetIntoTheBoysHole » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:59 pm

Wow this thread was a wild ride.

OP: Being a non-native speaker, in my mind, forgives some of the mistakes you make in your writing (something you're going to want to fix by the time you start law school). With that said, some of the ideas you have are really out there (to put it gently).

Here is some general life advice (something I wish I understood when I was younger),

Develop some self-awareness. Think about how the ideas you have are coming across to others. To yourself, it probably seems intelligent and well-thought out, but there are definitive character flaws that stand out in your posts in this thread. Maybe you are more reserved in person, but if what you have shown here is any indication of your overall outlook, then you are in store for some real challenges when it comes to law school/the legal profession. By saying things that are so off putting/out of touch with reality, people who are/have been in a similar position are not going to want to help you succeed. When it comes to law school/a legal career forcing yourself into a "me v. the world" mentality is only going to make your life more difficult. I've seen people fall into this trap before and while some of them ended up becoming successful attorneys, I know that their journeys were so much harder then they had to be. In law, like any other part of life, nobody likes someone who acts like they are smarter/better than everyone else. Just take a second, ask yourself, does this make me sound like an a**hole and go from their. Trust me, your future self will thank you for it.

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future liT1g4tor
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby future liT1g4tor » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:51 pm

ToGetIntoTheBoysHole wrote:Wow this thread was a wild ride.

OP: Being a non-native speaker, in my mind, forgives some of the mistakes you make in your writing (something you're going to want to fix by the time you start law school). With that said, some of the ideas you have are really out there (to put it gently).

Here is some general life advice (something I wish I understood when I was younger),

Develop some self-awareness. Think about how the ideas you have are coming across to others. To yourself, it probably seems intelligent and well-thought out, but there are definitive character flaws that stand out in your posts in this thread. Maybe you are more reserved in person, but if what you have shown here is any indication of your overall outlook, then you are in store for some real challenges when it comes to law school/the legal profession. By saying things that are so off putting/out of touch with reality, people who are/have been in a similar position are not going to want to help you succeed. When it comes to law school/a legal career forcing yourself into a "me v. the world" mentality is only going to make your life more difficult. I've seen people fall into this trap before and while some of them ended up becoming successful attorneys, I know that their journeys were so much harder then they had to be. In law, like any other part of life, nobody likes someone who acts like they are smarter/better than everyone else. Just take a second, ask yourself, does this make me sound like an a**hole and go from their. Trust me, your future self will thank you for it.


That is good advice, self-awareness will serve you well. Unless you get to the point where you don't care or have time to care; which I am not at but some people are. Unless you are talking about a certain group of people they are encountering. I don't take life for granted, it's not a game, especially with regard to your professional life. I genuinely treat people well and want people around me to succeed, teach me something, etc. More importantly, I treat people well because I enjoy to do so and it's who I am. I don't try to maintain a certain image or leave a certain impression, etc. unless it's strategic.

I am quite the opposite of the me versus world mentality. The world around you provides the resources. Of course you would want to have people want you succeed or to want to help you succeed. In some cases, they may be requiring you to succeed. I think it is maybe self-evident if you are genuinely a good person and display a little bit of passion when dealing with people.

A lot of times what you have said may happen because they don't like the people and the feeling may be mutual. Having a me-versus-world mentality is kind of like representing yourself in court, and you know the saying "he who represents himself has a fool for a client".

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rcharter1978
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby rcharter1978 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:30 am

future liT1g4tor wrote:
rpupkin wrote:OP, you should reconsider your choice of career. You're a poor writer and you struggle to express yourself. I suggest working for at least a couple of years before attending law school.


Your post is filled with assumptions. I, unlike many fellow tlsers don't proof read as many of you can tell. Also I just write what comes to my mind since I type really fast so I'm not going to have everything on point. And honestly when I was in court yesterday an ADA started by saying Obviously finished that sentence by saying Obviously, started her new one by saying obviously and said it about 5 more times and only spoke about 4 more sentences.

I'm pretty sure she would've failed any law school legal writing essay by your logic. Saying obviously like that in a essay she would get dinged hard. But she is only a
DA writing would not be her forte. Also, I dropped out of high school 3 times to work construction with my father when I was 15, 16, and 17. I finally graduated at 18 a year late because I missed a year and a half so honestly it was 6 months early.

Afterwards, at 18 I helped build a successful construction company. On top of it I produced instrumentals for people in the music industry and ran a recording studio which I funded myself. Which when I wasn't just selling the beats I was recording and engineering for people. I was helping people open LLCs for their little labels, publish their music, etc. That wasn't really a job though, more like a passion. A lot of people know me in my city and when I tell them I want to be a lawyer I tell them it means more to me than the music does now and they're like ok that's saying a lot.


You know a lot about law school/practice of law/bar exam for someone who hasn't even sent in an application yet.

I think you'll fit in well at law school.

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rcharter1978
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby rcharter1978 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:46 am

future liT1g4tor wrote:
Anon.y.mousse. wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote: I am also a people person


lol sure.


Seriously, I am. My wife has to even stop me from conversing most of the time or being too enthusiastic when engaging with others, regardless of what we are talking about/doing.


Oh goodness, you sound like one of those tone deaf people who attack others with conversation. I think this is why you couldn't understand if it was a serious job offer....because you can't hear tone.

You're a natural fit for law school. Every class needs a guy like you so that everyone else can take a Facebook break. Any law school would be lucky to have you.

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rcharter1978
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby rcharter1978 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:48 am

OP -- do you know any Romaian gypsies? Are you a gypsy? I find the culture fascinating.

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rcharter1978
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby rcharter1978 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:56 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote:I admire & crave that pressure. I don't care how big of a dick head a partner will be or how clients & co-workers will belittle me. I don't mind missing my best friend's wedding. I don't care for holidays. Sure, I enjoy them but I don't mind missing them. I will not let anything have an impact on my work or stand in the way of achieving what I want to achieve. One of my really good friends even made a joke one time that I am "like jesus" as far as disregarding people's bs and not letting them get a reaction out of me, whether my reaction is directly aimed at them or just held back & letting it get to me later on.

On the evening of the fifth day of the week a partner called Jesus into his office, just as Jesus was preparing to leave Galilee for a three-day weekend. "I have a memo," the partner said to him, "that I need you to prepare. The memo shall be no less then 30 pages. It must arrive on my desk by 8 a.m. Tuesday."

Jesus knew in his heart that the partner would not lay eyes on the memo until late the following week. And Jesus knew in his mind that the partner tasked another associate to write the same memo three days earlier. But Jesus resist not the partner. With love and understanding, Jesus said to the partner: "Will do. Thanks."

You are a TLS treasure.


Both this thread and OP.

I'm kinda bummed that my friends don't compare me to biblical figures.

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Mr. Peanutbutter
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby Mr. Peanutbutter » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:00 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I'm getting a kind of Blue Lotus vibe here.



Kali the Annihilator wrote:.

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future liT1g4tor
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby future liT1g4tor » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:44 am

rcharter1978 wrote:OP -- do you know any Romaian gypsies? Are you a gypsy? I find the culture fascinating.


Hmm....I'm definitely not a gypsy. TF is wrong with you man :D.

Yeah, you won't find it fascinating when you get chased by 10 gypsies with knives because you won't give a little kid a cigarette and he goes and tells his family/gang you actually smacked him and spit on him.
Last edited by future liT1g4tor on Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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rcharter1978
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby rcharter1978 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:53 am

future liT1g4tor wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:OP -- do you know any Romaian gypsies? Are you a gypsy? I find the culture fascinating.


Hmm....I'm definitely not a gypsy. TF is wrong with you man :D.

Yeah, you won't find it fascinating when you get jumped by 10 gypsies with knives because you won't give a little kid a cigarette and he goes and tells his family you actually smacked him and spit on him.

Yes, this is why it's better to observe the gypsy culture through a stranger online.

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future liT1g4tor
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby future liT1g4tor » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:21 pm

Gitaroo_Dude wrote:I desperately want to believe that OP is also the guy who authored this gem:

https://www.reddit.com/r/lawschooladmis ... _used_the/


Definitely not me. I was one of the kids that was reciting rap lyrics to the other kids. Also I probably read more encyclopedia pages than that person, as if there is any correlation between what type of kid you were and reading encylopedias.

I hope I don't come off as arrogant as that person, lol. There are also many inconsistencies with his story. He tries to make it seem as if he had rough growing up but obviously sounds like he was priviliged his whole life, also he said his parents were attorneys how can he have it bad? Yeah, they both could have been just starting out their careers and they didnt have too much money. I still just don't see how he would have it really bad with two attorney parents.

He seems arrogant and ignorant with his remark about how his family would never own resteraunts due to having higher desires. I can see why he would say that but there are so many types of resteraunts & some owners are very well off and do it out of passion.

There are many families who are not as well-off as one that can operate/own a resteraunt is. That is why he sounds very priviliged. Also there are 5 star resteraunts operated by chefs who love being chefs. So his parents being attorneys isn't really because of higher desires but because it's what they chose to do, perhaps loved to do.

Also, my impression is that the faculty would laugh at him disregarding the question. Am I completely off base? Can he possibly establish some sense of uniqueness/thinking outside of the box by doing that?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:22 pm

That person is clearly a troll trying to get a rise out of people (seems to have succeeded).

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smaug
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby smaug » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:29 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:That person is clearly a troll trying to get a rise out of people (seems to have succeeded).

are you implying that OP is different?

i'm guessing this is either poor pmt work or relatively good brut work

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future liT1g4tor
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby future liT1g4tor » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:09 pm

smaug wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:That person is clearly a troll trying to get a rise out of people (seems to have succeeded).

are you implying that OP is different?

i'm guessing this is either poor pmt work or relatively good brut work


OP is no troll.

cavalier1138
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:51 pm

future liT1g4tor wrote:
smaug wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:That person is clearly a troll trying to get a rise out of people (seems to have succeeded).

are you implying that OP is different?

i'm guessing this is either poor pmt work or relatively good brut work


OP is no troll.


If that's true, I'm not sure that's better...

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:53 pm

smaug wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:That person is clearly a troll trying to get a rise out of people (seems to have succeeded).

are you implying that OP is different?

i'm guessing this is either poor pmt work or relatively good brut work

Didn't actually comment either way. But you and I are always going to disagree about the likelihood of trolling v. the number of misguided people out there.

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kellyfrost
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby kellyfrost » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:20 pm

This is a terrible thread. It should be removed.

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future liT1g4tor
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby future liT1g4tor » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:34 pm

kellyfrost wrote:This is a terrible thread. It should be removed.


Why did you post so late to say it should be removed? I don't think it should be at all. Except for the terrible grammatical mistakes I made.

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rpupkin
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby rpupkin » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:37 pm

kellyfrost wrote:This is a terrible thread. It should be removed.

The thread has been dormant for eight months. I doubt anyone was reading it. If you think the thread is terrible, why would you bump it, thereby bringing it to the attention of a bunch of folks who probably never read it in the first place?
Last edited by rpupkin on Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kellyfrost
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby kellyfrost » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:37 pm

future liT1g4tor wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:This is a terrible thread. It should be removed.


Why did you post so late to say it should be removed? I don't think it should be at all. Except for the terrible grammatical mistakes I made.


It is flat out terrible.




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