Question regarding seriousness of job offer

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blueapple
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby blueapple » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:55 pm

future liT1g4tor wrote:I would say having someone tell me I can work at the DA's office where I wouldn't even of thought of wanting to work with LS 2 years away is quite the opposite of bleak. Keep in mind that I have the resources to start my own practice if I had to.


Alright I am going to pretend that this is the only thing you just said.

1) It wasn't a job offer.
2) Just because you wouldn't have thought to work there doesn't mean it's not a highly desired position. If you don't want to work there, how does this make any different for your legal career anyway?
3) WOULDN'T HAVE
4) Starting your own practice is generally a last resort for people who can't get a job after law school. I'm not saying that there aren't people who want to start their own practice right away, but it's unusual for that to be someone's goal. How do you plan to get clients right out of law school? How do you plan to get training? You don't learn to be a lawyer during law school.
5) Why are you even on this board if you're convinced you have it all figured out?

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MarkinKansasCity
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:56 pm

mjb447 wrote:
Anon.y.mousse. wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote: I am also a people person


lol sure.

Insert Office Space "people skills" clip here.

Nice PS draft, OP. The future looks bright.


Well-well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?

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lymenheimer
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby lymenheimer » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:00 pm

Just to clarify everyone, this is flame. What was that reddit post about the guy who studied string theory when he was 12 or whatever?

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby rpupkin » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:08 pm

I miss the relative charm of DaRascal.

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future liT1g4tor
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby future liT1g4tor » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:11 pm

blueapple wrote:1) It wasn't a job offer.
2) Just because you wouldn't have thought to work there doesn't mean it's not a highly desired position. If you don't want to work there, how does this make any different for your legal career anyway?
3) WOULDN'T HAVE
4) Starting your own practice is generally a last resort for people who can't get a job after law school. I'm not saying that there aren't people who want to start their own practice right away, but it's unusual for that to be someone's goal. How do you plan to get clients right out of law school? How do you plan to get training? You don't learn to be a lawyer during law school.
5) Why are you even on this board if you're convinced you have it all figured out?


Yes it wasn't a job offer since I cannot accept, I have said that. I was just wondering about the seriousness of it, as I have stated I would like to go into BigLaw. This doesn't mean I don't like to think all possibilities through. With regard to the possibility that I don't get into a T14 and remain at my regional school or a lower one in CA (like Hastings) I would open my own practice and it can be sustained by my non-law related business until things going.

Yes, clients will be hard to come by at first, but I know a lot of people in my city that are criminals & that have money. I am a real trust worthy guy and much smarter than most of my acquaintances that would require a lawyer (this is coming from them, not me) so I figured that would be a start. Criminal Defense wouldn't be my main forte if I were to open my own practice. If I were to open my own practice & do criminal defense I assume being a prosecutor for a year or so would be good for experience & for connections.

Why am I even on this board if I have it all figured out? I don't have it all figured out, frankly I don't think anybody does. I also enjoy being on this board and I learn a lot from being on this board. I haven't posted much but I have been on TLS for about 2 years now, so I figured it would be a good time to start posting. I didn't want to do it too far away from LS but my cycle is coming up and LS is right around the corner.

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future liT1g4tor
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby future liT1g4tor » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:12 pm

lymenheimer wrote:Just to clarify everyone, this is flame. What was that reddit post about the guy who studied string theory when he was 12 or whatever?


I am unaware of such post, and I don't go on reddit. I am kind of confused by your post. Are you seriously comparing learning string theory to music production?

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:16 pm

future liT1g4tor wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:Just to clarify everyone, this is flame. What was that reddit post about the guy who studied string theory when he was 12 or whatever?


I am unaware of such post, and I don't go on reddit. I am kind of confused by your post. Are you seriously comparing learning string theory to music production?


Some musical instruments have strings. They're basically the same thing.

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby mjb447 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:27 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:Just to clarify everyone, this is flame. What was that reddit post about the guy who studied string theory when he was 12 or whatever?


I am unaware of such post, and I don't go on reddit. I am kind of confused by your post. Are you seriously comparing learning string theory to music production?


Some musical instruments have strings. They're basically the same thing.

(N.B. - This is a good real-life example of "thinking like a lawyer.")

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby blueapple » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:27 pm

future liT1g4tor wrote:Yes, clients will be hard to come by at first, but I know a lot of people in my city that are criminals & that have money. I am a real trust worthy guy and much smarter than most of my acquaintances that would require a lawyer (this is coming from them, not me) so I figured that would be a start. Criminal Defense wouldn't be my main forte if I were to open my own practice. If I were to open my own practice & do criminal defense I assume being a prosecutor for a year or so would be good for experience & for connections.


You would clearly get better experience doing criminal defense as a PD rather than a prosecutor (I'm assuming you meant that criminal defense *would* be your main forte, not *wouldn't*).

Also, keep in touch and let us know if your criminal connections hinder your passing C&F on the bar please.

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby future liT1g4tor » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:33 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
I framed houses for eight years dude, and it is not the same kind of mentally draining work that sitting in a law office entails. I got a great job when I graduated, and I'm glad to be here, but you don't sound like you have any reference point whatsoever with regard to the practice of law. I promise you, carrying lumber and playing with Paslodes all day isn't half as exhausting as this. It's just mental fatigue instead of physical fatigue.


IMHO, framing houses is quite easy and is really fun. I looked forward to framing jobs, I even built a government contracted kill-house once. At first, I mostly did demolition, which is the physical part. We are not talking about painting here. Being in the Bay Area, you can't always use a bobcat, especially when working in the Oakland Hills, or when you are working so close to the house. So try digging all day for a week straight. Try crawling under a house with only about 3 feet of height and doing electrical or plumbing in those conditions. You have to use your mind too. My father would always tell me "Work smarter, not harder".

I didn't say it is the same kind of mentally draining work that sitting in a law office entails but on the contrary what if one prefers that? I like challenging work. I like being exhausted from work.

The main point I tried to make is that I dealt with very long hours so it is not something new. The time flies if you are working. If you get frustrated you will stress yourself out. If you care too much about what can go wrong & how you can't fix it, you will enhance the fatigue. It is all a mental game. Also, it is not just physical fatigue. When someone hires you and they tell you what to do, that is 90% physical 10% mental and if you make a large mistake, you might or might not lose your job depending on the circumstances but there isn't really any liability attached.

When the whole job is in your hands and you are responsible for all the employees and their mistakes, you cannot say there is not any mental fatigue attached to that. You have to account for everything the job entails. Most of the time I was in way over my head. This has thought me that I like being under pressure and I do good when pressure is applied, it is what I thrive on.

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby future liT1g4tor » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:40 pm

blueapple wrote:
You would clearly get better experience doing criminal defense as a PD rather than a prosecutor (I'm assuming you meant that criminal defense *would* be your main forte, not *wouldn't*).

Also, keep in touch and let us know if your criminal connections hinder your passing C&F on the bar please.


I meant what I wrote. It wouldn't be my forte. I want to do Civil Litigation.

Okay, will do. Why wouldn't I be able to pass the character & fitness on the bar? I am not the criminal, it is not my fault I grew up in the not so nice part of town when I first moved here. I mean my neighborhood wasn't so bad but a block or two down and you're liable to get shot at. Then, when I moved into the nice part of town, my city is quite unique with this as far as people from all walks of life live all over. There isn't one typical type or group neighbors. There are neighborhoods where there are literally doctor, drug dealer, executive, pimp, etc.

The most important thing is to never lie. Plus that is quite the ironic, I would've had to absolutely abstained myself from the not so unfortunate things I encountered in my childhood and not be able to be aware of criminal activity but then zealously represent criminals. It makes sense, but I am not the criminal, and there are no ties. In addition, I was infatuated with that lifestyle, I was a kid. I have done and seen many bad things, but never as an adult. God has forgiven me, maybe the bar isn't as forgiving. I don't know. What do you think? I never got convicted, I never was in a gang. I don't see why I am not fit. However, I will update TLS all through my application cycle, LS, and upon graduation.
Last edited by future liT1g4tor on Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MarkinKansasCity
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:41 pm

future liT1g4tor wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
I framed houses for eight years dude, and it is not the same kind of mentally draining work that sitting in a law office entails. I got a great job when I graduated, and I'm glad to be here, but you don't sound like you have any reference point whatsoever with regard to the practice of law. I promise you, carrying lumber and playing with Paslodes all day isn't half as exhausting as this. It's just mental fatigue instead of physical fatigue.


IMHO, framing houses is quite easy and is really fun. I looked forward to framing jobs, I even built a government contracted kill-house once. At first, I mostly did demolition, which is the physical part. We are not talking about painting here. Being in the Bay Area, you can't always use a bobcat, especially when working in the Oakland Hills, or when you are working so close to the house. So try digging all day for a week straight. Try crawling under a house with only about 3 feet of height and doing electrical or plumbing in those conditions. You have to use your mind too. My father would always tell me "Work smarter, not harder".

I didn't say it is the same kind of mentally draining work that sitting in a law office entails but on the contrary what if one prefers that? I like challenging work. I like being exhausted from work.

The main point I tried to make is that I dealt with very long hours so it is not something new. The time flies if you are working. If you get frustrated you will stress yourself out. If you care too much about what can go wrong & how you can't fix it, you will enhance the fatigue. It is all a mental game. Also, it is not just physical fatigue. When someone hires you and they tell you what to do, that is 90% physical 10% mental and if you make a large mistake, you might or might not lose your job depending on the circumstances but there isn't really any liability attached.

When the whole job is in your hands and you are responsible for all the employees and their mistakes, you cannot say there is not any mental fatigue attached to that. You have to account for everything the job entails. Most of the time I was in way over my head. This has thought me that I like being under pressure and I do good when pressure is applied, it is what I thrive on.


I was a project manager for a couple years as well, so I'm familiar with the pressure that you're talking about.

Let me repeat: It does not compare.

This profession does not tolerate mistakes, no matter how small, ever. You are not allowed to be wrong. I am sure you're going to ignore this just like I (and everyone else here) did, or think it doesn't apply to you, but you cannot compare this type of work to project management. It is on a whole different level with regard to pressure and expectations.

Go take a look at the partner/associate role play thread in the lounge. It sounds like a joke, but it's pretty goddamned close to how things actually work.

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby blueapple » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:54 pm

future liT1g4tor wrote:I meant what I wrote. It wouldn't be my forte. I want to do Civil Litigation.


So.. how would your criminal contacts who have so much money help you with your practice then? I'm guessing they are not filing civil suits.

future liT1g4tor wrote:What do you think? I never got convicted, I never was in a gang.


I was being a bit facetious because you're saying that you have such close ties to criminals that they'll trust you to do their legal work -- that could indicate that you'll have some trouble with C&F if you have a criminal background. Anyway, you should look at the C&F part of the bar app for your state to make sure you aren't going to have any trouble when you're applying for the bar, and speak to a C&F attorney before going to law school if you think you might. The apps ask about more than just convictions and gang membership, so you'll just want to make sure you understand everything you'll have to disclose.

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:55 pm

I'm getting a kind of Blue Lotus vibe here.

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future liT1g4tor
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby future liT1g4tor » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:59 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
I was a project manager for a couple years as well, so I'm familiar with the pressure that you're talking about.

Let me repeat: It does not compare.

This profession does not tolerate mistakes, no matter how small, ever. You are not allowed to be wrong. I am sure you're going to ignore this just like I (and everyone else here) did, or think it doesn't apply to you, but you cannot compare this type of work to project management. It is on a whole different level with regard to pressure and expectations.

Go take a look at the partner/associate role play thread in the lounge. It sounds like a joke, but it's pretty goddamned close to how things actually work.


I know it does not tolerate mistakes. I was speaking about the typical construction employee. He can make tons of mistakes, someone else will have to fix them & he would most likely be fired depending on how severe. Same with the law, only the repercussions can be much more drastic.

I admire & crave that pressure. I don't care how big of a dick head a partner will be or how clients & co-workers will belittle me. I don't mind missing my best friend's wedding. I don't care for holidays. Sure, I enjoy them but I don't mind missing them. I will not let anything have an impact on my work or stand in the way of achieving what I want to achieve. One of my really good friends even made a joke one time that I am "like jesus" as far as disregarding people's bs and not letting them get a reaction out of me, whether my reaction is directly aimed at them or just held back & letting it get to me later on.

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:00 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I'm getting a kind of Blue Lotus vibe here.


Yeah I'm about done.

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MarkinKansasCity
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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:02 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I'm getting a kind of Blue Lotus vibe here.


Nony, please change his username to V5_Jesus. TYIA.

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby Gitaroo_Dude » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:11 pm

I desperately want to believe that OP is also the guy who authored this gem:

https://www.reddit.com/r/lawschooladmis ... _used_the/

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby rpupkin » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:21 pm

future liT1g4tor wrote:I admire & crave that pressure. I don't care how big of a dick head a partner will be or how clients & co-workers will belittle me. I don't mind missing my best friend's wedding. I don't care for holidays. Sure, I enjoy them but I don't mind missing them. I will not let anything have an impact on my work or stand in the way of achieving what I want to achieve. One of my really good friends even made a joke one time that I am "like jesus" as far as disregarding people's bs and not letting them get a reaction out of me, whether my reaction is directly aimed at them or just held back & letting it get to me later on.

On the evening of the fifth day of the week a partner called Jesus into his office, just as Jesus was preparing to leave Galilee for a three-day weekend. "I have a memo," the partner said to him, "that I need you to prepare. The memo shall be no less then 30 pages. It must arrive on my desk by 8 a.m. Tuesday."

Jesus knew in his heart that the partner would not lay eyes on the memo until late the following week. And Jesus knew in his mind that the partner tasked another associate to write the same memo three days earlier. But Jesus resist not the partner. With love and understanding, Jesus said to the partner: "Will do. Thanks."

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby blueapple » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:26 pm

rpupkin wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote:I admire & crave that pressure. I don't care how big of a dick head a partner will be or how clients & co-workers will belittle me. I don't mind missing my best friend's wedding. I don't care for holidays. Sure, I enjoy them but I don't mind missing them. I will not let anything have an impact on my work or stand in the way of achieving what I want to achieve. One of my really good friends even made a joke one time that I am "like jesus" as far as disregarding people's bs and not letting them get a reaction out of me, whether my reaction is directly aimed at them or just held back & letting it get to me later on.

On the evening of the fifth day of the week a partner called Jesus into his office, just as Jesus was preparing to leave Galilee for a three-day weekend. "I have a memo," the partner said to him, "that I need you to prepare. The memo shall be no less then 30 pages. It must arrive on my desk by 8 a.m. Tuesday."

Jesus knew in his heart that the partner would not lay eyes on the memo until late the following week. And Jesus knew in his mind that the partner tasked another associate to write the same memo three days earlier. But Jesus resist not the partner. With love and understanding, Jesus said to the partner: "Will do. Thanks."


:lol:

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby Nebby » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:29 pm

future liT1g4tor wrote:I admire & crave that pressure. I don't care how big of a dick head a partner will be or how clients & co-workers will belittle me. I don't mind missing my best friend's wedding. I don't care for holidays. Sure, I enjoy them but I don't mind missing them. I will not let anything have an impact on my work or stand in the way of achieving what I want to achieve. One of my really good friends even made a joke one time that I am "like jesus" as far as disregarding people's bs and not letting them get a reaction out of me, whether my reaction is directly aimed at them or just held back & letting it get to me later on.

lol

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:31 pm

rpupkin wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote:I admire & crave that pressure. I don't care how big of a dick head a partner will be or how clients & co-workers will belittle me. I don't mind missing my best friend's wedding. I don't care for holidays. Sure, I enjoy them but I don't mind missing them. I will not let anything have an impact on my work or stand in the way of achieving what I want to achieve. One of my really good friends even made a joke one time that I am "like jesus" as far as disregarding people's bs and not letting them get a reaction out of me, whether my reaction is directly aimed at them or just held back & letting it get to me later on.

On the evening of the fifth day of the week a partner called Jesus into his office, just as Jesus was preparing to leave Galilee for a three-day weekend. "I have a memo," the partner said to him, "that I need you to prepare. The memo shall be no less then 30 pages. It must arrive on my desk by 8 a.m. Tuesday."

Jesus knew in his heart that the partner would not lay eyes on the memo until late the following week. And Jesus knew in his mind that the partner tasked another associate to write the same memo three days earlier. But Jesus resist not the partner. With love and understanding, Jesus said to the partner: "Will do. Thanks."

You are a TLS treasure.

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby mjb447 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:36 pm

rpupkin wrote:
future liT1g4tor wrote:I admire & crave that pressure. I don't care how big of a dick head a partner will be or how clients & co-workers will belittle me. I don't mind missing my best friend's wedding. I don't care for holidays. Sure, I enjoy them but I don't mind missing them. I will not let anything have an impact on my work or stand in the way of achieving what I want to achieve. One of my really good friends even made a joke one time that I am "like jesus" as far as disregarding people's bs and not letting them get a reaction out of me, whether my reaction is directly aimed at them or just held back & letting it get to me later on.

On the evening of the fifth day of the week a partner called Jesus into his office, just as Jesus was preparing to leave Galilee for a three-day weekend. "I have a memo," the partner said to him, "that I need you to prepare. The memo shall be no less then 30 pages. It must arrive on my desk by 8 a.m. Tuesday."

Jesus knew in his heart that the partner would not lay eyes on the memo until late the following week. And Jesus knew in his mind that the partner tasked another associate to write the same memo three days earlier. But Jesus resist not the partner. With love and understanding, Jesus said to the partner: "Will do. Thanks."

Verily.

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby Thelaw23 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:44 pm

Completely off-topic, but can someone answer his/her Suits remarks? With Harvey going ADA-> BigLaw? It's, like most of the show, super unlikely, right?

I don't understand why it would be easy to go SEC Enforcer-> Big Law but not Manhattan ADA-> Big Law.

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Re: Question regarding seriousness of job offer

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:47 pm

Thelaw23 wrote:Completely off-topic, but can someone answer his/her Suits remarks? With Harvey going ADA-> BigLaw? It's, like most of the show, super unlikely, right?

I don't understand why it would be easy to go SEC Enforcer-> Big Law but not Manhattan ADA-> Big Law.


I don't think it's super unlikely at all. White collar defense seems to be full of former-prosecutors. A bunch of AUSAs go corporate as well.




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