Personal Injury Stigma Forum

[Anonymous User]

I've heard negative comments in movies, TV-shows and in this forum about personal injury attorneys, usually referring to them as "ambulance chasers" and having cheesy billboard ads.
Can someone explain to me whether the negativity is legitimate, or is being such an attorney not so bad?
I want to know because I'm considering going to law school to become a personal injury attorney, and I'm interning for one. I don't see anything wrong with it - is the pay very low or the hours very long? How is it compared to NY biglaw?

I know the law market is awful in general, so answer in relation to other areas of practice.

[Anonymous User]

In insurance law you get to either market yourself in a doofy way in order to get unsophisticated people who are injured. Or you get to be underpaid, jump through hoops, and help insurers not pay injured people. It's not a sophisticated legal field, but it can be incredibly lucrative suing insurance companies.

To be fair when I think of ambulance chasers I think of the ones who advertise on TV/Bilboards.

[Anonymous User]

I am currently working with a PI attorney for the first time and this attorney is awful. S/he straight up lies about stuff and his/her written work is really bad.

This is obviously just one attorney, but what are the odds that the only PI attorney I've ever worked with is this bad? You decide.

[RaceJudicata]

I worked at one of these firms as a law clerk pre-law school (big name Plaintiff's injury firm in a major city). Couple points:
- Success is based largely on an incredibly high volume of cases -- which require tv ads on Jerry springer and other similar daytime tv shows to collect unsophisticated clients
- The big cases w/ big verdicts are few and far between, but when you hit one, they are INCREDIBLY lucrative (the highest paid Injury attorneys are the richest attorneys in any given legal market).
- There are different "types" of injury firms. There are firms who actually try cases, and there are other firms that simply act as a glorified phone bank, sign up cases, and refer them out to more legitimate firms and collect referral fees. These are the folks that the bad reputation comes from.
- Its unsophisticated legal work... A lot of it is just posturing to create a settlement opportunity. That being said, some of the best trial lawyers are injury attorneys--simply because they have a good combination of an outgoing personality (i.e. being willing to go on TV like a doofus) and actually get to try cases.

- Comp can be HUGE, but that is only for the top players. For every millionaire trial lawyer there are fifty or more folks making like 50k or less

[yogotti]

Yeah, I worked as a claims examiner and dealt with a lot of different personal injury attorneys.

The way I see it there are some legit injured people out there deserving of a good settlement. I tried to get those people their money.

Then, you have your mills. They go to some chiro or rehab place, get signed up with an attorney, run up a lot of medical bills, and then make a big claim.

I think that as a previous posted said, to make some money you have to run on volume. Say your average settlement is $10,000 and you get 1/3rd. Now, figure it may take anywhere from six months to three years to pull in that settlement. How many of those do you have to run through to justify you overhead. You need to do advertising and billboards. You probably need a secretary and a person to pull medical records.

You might get lucky and pull one of those huge settlements against a trucking company, but the run of the mill claim is not that.

I agree with the poster that you can get trial experience if that is something you are looking for. You won't run into a lot of interesting questions of the law and a lot of the fact patterns will be very similar. Plaintiff got rear-ended, their neck hurts. You have to get in front of a jury and show why your client needs a big settlement. Some venues are big on paying plaintiffs, some aren't.

[utlaw2007]

Many personal injury lawyers are straight up crooks. I'm actually about to sue one on behalf of a healthcare provider because the guy lied about how he would compensate my client.

However, I know some ethical personal injury lawyers who are honest. But the reason why so many bad attorneys are drawn to personal injury is because it is one of the easiest areas to practice. My 8 year old nephew could walk into court and get paid for an accident someone else had.

Because many, if not most, of these lawyers are not good, they have to use dishonest tactics to make money.

The level of ineptitude among many solos and small firm or even large firm practitioners is quite alarming. I see it everyday in my practice. But the really small guys are really bad.

[utlaw2007]

I worked at one of these firms as a law clerk pre-law school (big name Plaintiff's injury firm in a major city). Couple points:
- Success is based largely on an incredibly high volume of cases -- which require tv ads on Jerry springer and other similar daytime tv shows to collect unsophisticated clients
- The big cases w/ big verdicts are few and far between, but when you hit one, they are INCREDIBLY lucrative (the highest paid Injury attorneys are the richest attorneys in any given legal market).
- There are different "types" of injury firms. There are firms who actually try cases, and there are other firms that simply act as a glorified phone bank, sign up cases, and refer them out to more legitimate firms and collect referral fees. These are the folks that the bad reputation comes from.
- Its unsophisticated legal work... A lot of it is just posturing to create a settlement opportunity. That being said, some of the best trial lawyers are injury attorneys--simply because they have a good combination of an outgoing personality (i.e. being willing to go on TV like a doofus) and actually get to try cases.

- Comp can be HUGE, but that is only for the top players. For every millionaire trial lawyer there are fifty or more folks making like 50k or less

Personal injury lawyers are not the highest paid attorneys in big legal markets. Commercial litigation plaintiff lawyers are. We wipe our a$$es with what personal injury lawyers can make, even on their largest cases. But they do make a ton of money, though.

[utlaw2007]

I worked at one of these firms as a law clerk pre-law school (big name Plaintiff's injury firm in a major city). Couple points:
- Success is based largely on an incredibly high volume of cases -- which require tv ads on Jerry springer and other similar daytime tv shows to collect unsophisticated clients
- The big cases w/ big verdicts are few and far between, but when you hit one, they are INCREDIBLY lucrative (the highest paid Injury attorneys are the richest attorneys in any given legal market).
- There are different "types" of injury firms. There are firms who actually try cases, and there are other firms that simply act as a glorified phone bank, sign up cases, and refer them out to more legitimate firms and collect referral fees. These are the folks that the bad reputation comes from.
- Its unsophisticated legal work... A lot of it is just posturing to create a settlement opportunity. That being said, some of the best trial lawyers are injury attorneys--simply because they have a good combination of an outgoing personality (i.e. being willing to go on TV like a doofus) and actually get to try cases.

- Comp can be HUGE, but that is only for the top players. For every millionaire trial lawyer there are fifty or more folks making like 50k or less

While the statement in bold is mostly true. It is somewhat misleading. Most lawyers that the public has access to are just not that good or smart. I see it everyday and hear about it everyday. So their ineptitude is the primary reason why they struggle. That being said, if you can get business, and that is not that hard to do if you put in the work, see my threads on here, you can make a pretty good living close to or exceeding six figures. And that is with average ability.

In reference to this thread, I've never met a struggling personal injury lawyer. And I've met plenty of personal injury lawyers with average ability. And I know a lot of solos. Millionaire personal injury lawyers are more plentiful than you think. The ones I know seem to all be millionaires. But in contrast, the amount of struggling personal injury lawyers is as high as you would think. It's just that they are struggling for slightly different reasons than you would think.

[pancakes3]

Could you elaborate on "ineptitude" ?

[utlaw2007]

Could you elaborate on "ineptitude" ?

They don't understand basic fundamental issues of law, like issue spotting or application of the law to the facts, meaning they see facts of a situation and apply law that doesn't apply to that situation. Or they apply the correct law to the situation, but their application is HEAVILY flawed, not just flawed by a bit. For instance, I'm about to sue this lawyer. And he does well for himself, that's why I'm suing him. But he's not that bright. When he called me about my demand letter, he said he would win in court and asserted a law of negligence defense in what is a contract and fraud case. That's inept. And I'm going to make him bleed for his ineptitude and unethical behavior.

Or, I had one lawyer in my building defend her client's battery of someone else when she was threatened to be sued by that person, not by me, by saying the lawsuit will fail because filing a lawsuit is not a reasonable act for being the victim of a battery. She described that as an element of battery. That is just ridiculous.

Or, I had discussions with a lawyer who had been a litigator for 20 years, or so she said, and she did not understand that "jurisdiction" refers to the court's or a law's power to adjudicate a matter, affect it's outcome. How the hell can you be a litigator for 20 years and not know this?!

Or, there was another lawyer who bragged that she was a good trial lawyer, yet she had no idea that the jurisdictional limit of county courts in Texas is $200,000. And it's not like she's in District Court all the time. She's in the lower courts a lot.

I see misunderstanding about the law and it's nuances ALL THE TIME, from lawyers. The bigfirms aren't as bad, but they display these things, too, just not as frequently. I don't see it hardly when I face bigfirms, but my best friend in law school sees it quite a bit. That might be splitting hairs, though since he really knows his stuff.

It's almost as if lawyers all said to hell with what we learned in law school. We are just going to wing it, when it comes to litigation. That being said, Most of the opponents I face in litigation are quality opponents. So they don't do it for the most part. Colleagues consider me a law professor so I see mistakes in all sorts of legal arguments and explanations. That being said, there are some lawyers that are outstanding that you wouldn't expect to be outstanding.

[lavarman84]

I worked at one of these firms as a law clerk pre-law school (big name Plaintiff's injury firm in a major city). Couple points:
- Success is based largely on an incredibly high volume of cases -- which require tv ads on Jerry springer and other similar daytime tv shows to collect unsophisticated clients
- The big cases w/ big verdicts are few and far between, but when you hit one, they are INCREDIBLY lucrative (the highest paid Injury attorneys are the richest attorneys in any given legal market).
- There are different "types" of injury firms. There are firms who actually try cases, and there are other firms that simply act as a glorified phone bank, sign up cases, and refer them out to more legitimate firms and collect referral fees. These are the folks that the bad reputation comes from.
- Its unsophisticated legal work... A lot of it is just posturing to create a settlement opportunity. That being said, some of the best trial lawyers are injury attorneys--simply because they have a good combination of an outgoing personality (i.e. being willing to go on TV like a doofus) and actually get to try cases.

- Comp can be HUGE, but that is only for the top players. For every millionaire trial lawyer there are fifty or more folks making like 50k or less

Personal injury lawyers are not the highest paid attorneys in big legal markets. Commercial litigation plaintiff lawyers are. We wipe our a$$es with what personal injury lawyers can make, even on their largest cases. But they do make a ton of money, though.

Back-to-back overstatements.

[utlaw2007]

I worked at one of these firms as a law clerk pre-law school (big name Plaintiff's injury firm in a major city). Couple points:
- Success is based largely on an incredibly high volume of cases -- which require tv ads on Jerry springer and other similar daytime tv shows to collect unsophisticated clients
- The big cases w/ big verdicts are few and far between, but when you hit one, they are INCREDIBLY lucrative (the highest paid Injury attorneys are the richest attorneys in any given legal market).
- There are different "types" of injury firms. There are firms who actually try cases, and there are other firms that simply act as a glorified phone bank, sign up cases, and refer them out to more legitimate firms and collect referral fees. These are the folks that the bad reputation comes from.
- Its unsophisticated legal work... A lot of it is just posturing to create a settlement opportunity. That being said, some of the best trial lawyers are injury attorneys--simply because they have a good combination of an outgoing personality (i.e. being willing to go on TV like a doofus) and actually get to try cases.

- Comp can be HUGE, but that is only for the top players. For every millionaire trial lawyer there are fifty or more folks making like 50k or less

Personal injury lawyers are not the highest paid attorneys in big legal markets. Commercial litigation plaintiff lawyers are. We wipe our a$$es with what personal injury lawyers can make, even on their largest cases. But they do make a ton of money, though.

Back-to-back overstatements.

Not really. It is somewhat of an overstatement because it is not true for everyone in commercial litigation. But I have never heard of a personal injury lawyer getting a pay day in the hundreds of millions. Not saying it has never happened, but I have never seen it happen in Texas. I would have gotten an email (I get email notifications of large judgments). Besides, I know how damages work and how they are calculated, even if largely subjective when talking about tort damages. I am a plaintiff's lawyer, after all. And the elements to a super large personal injury award in the hundreds of millions of dollars simply don't give way to these types of large awards. Commercial litigation doesn't routinely get these. But these types of hundreds of million dollar judgments happen with a fair amount of frequency to a select group of commercial litigation lawyers, usually small boutiques (who have the quality clientele), and they do not happen for personal injury lawyers.

For one, many states have enacted some type of tort reform which places a limit on punitive damages. Juries can still award really high amounts of money, but the awards are reduced by the limits. In Texas, there are a few ways to get these damage caps removed. These avenues of damage cap removal do not exist in regards to personal injury. Yet they exist for many forms of commercial litigation. And uncapped punitive damages are the way to ridiculously high rewards when suing very large corporations.

[utlaw2007]

It is absurd to think that personal injury lawyers, even catastrophic personal injury lawyers, make as a much money as oil and gas contingency fee lawyers or IP contingency fee lawyers. Personal injury lawyers can make in the tens of millions off of one case and oil and gas or IP contingency fee lawyers can make in the hundreds of millions off of one case. That sounds like an a$$ wipe to me. These types of cases aren't routine, but they are aren't lottery winning rare either. They happen occasionally for both groups.

That being said, there are super quality cases and really cheap cases for every area of contingency fee practice. The challenge is getting high quality cases.

[utlaw2007]

Another large reason why commercial litigation can yield significantly larger paydays than personal injury is because it is largely contract based. The larger the contract, the larger the amount in controversy, and potentially, the award. Some contracts in commercial litigation are really huge and have no equal in personal injury, in terms of potential damages that can be awarded.

[lavarman84]

It is absurd to think that personal injury lawyers, even catastrophic personal injury lawyers, make as a much money as oil and gas contingency fee lawyers or IP contingency fee lawyers. Personal injury lawyers can make in the tens of millions off of one case and oil and gas or IP contingency fee lawyers can make in the hundreds of millions off of one case. That sounds like an a$$ wipe to me. These types of cases aren't routine, but they are aren't lottery winning rare either. They happen occasionally for both groups.

That being said, there are super quality cases and really cheap cases for every area of contingency fee practice. The challenge is getting high quality cases.

It sounds pretty ludicrous to me. If you want to focus on the rare cases, you can find billion dollar cases for both sides. The notion that commercial litigation attorneys are wiping their ass with the money that top personal injury attorneys make is pretty laughable.

But I'm digressing from the point of this thread.

[smaug]

You should tell us you're a plaintiff's lawyer again

[utlaw2007]

.

[utlaw2007]

It is absurd to think that personal injury lawyers, even catastrophic personal injury lawyers, make as a much money as oil and gas contingency fee lawyers or IP contingency fee lawyers. Personal injury lawyers can make in the tens of millions off of one case and oil and gas or IP contingency fee lawyers can make in the hundreds of millions off of one case. That sounds like an a$$ wipe to me. These types of cases aren't routine, but they are aren't lottery winning rare either. They happen occasionally for both groups.

That being said, there are super quality cases and really cheap cases for every area of contingency fee practice. The challenge is getting high quality cases.

It sounds pretty ludicrous to me. If you want to focus on the rare cases, you can find billion dollar cases for both sides. The notion that commercial litigation attorneys are wiping their ass with the money that top personal injury attorneys make is pretty laughable.

But I'm digressing from the point of this thread.

You can't find a billion dollar case on the side of personal injury unless you're talking about a class action suit. And class actions are a no go from the start because you have to have court permission to work one.

The largest commercial litigation suit in Houston back a couple of years ago was a 296 million dollar award for an IP case that was reduced by about 20 something million dollars. The largest personal injury case around the same time was an 84 million dollar pay day. The 84 million dollar award was subject to damage limitations so that award was greatly reduced, the IP award was not. This hardly gives us a definitive answer to this question. But since there is no such thing as a definitive answer on this issue, this reality just might be indicative of how it is.

"Wiping a$$" was an overstatement, probably. But it does help to dismiss the myth that personal injury lawyers make more than anyone. In Texas, I can't speak for other states, commercial litigation is the highest earning area of law practice.

[utlaw2007]

You should tell us you're a plaintiff's lawyer again

That gets boring after a while.