So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:47 pm

SweetTort wrote:But like... what's the alternative? I'm going to a t14 in the fall with minimal debt-- other than biglaw, what is a good path?

What do you like to do? Why do you want to be a lawyer?

20170322
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby 20170322 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:56 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
SweetTort wrote:But like... what's the alternative? I'm going to a t14 in the fall with minimal debt-- other than biglaw, what is a good path?

What do you like to do? Why do you want to be a lawyer?


I love reading/writing/debating/studying policy/being around people smarter than I am. I want to be a lawyer because it seems to involve some of these interests, and because I have no job skills.

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zot1
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby zot1 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:00 pm

SweetTort wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
SweetTort wrote:But like... what's the alternative? I'm going to a t14 in the fall with minimal debt-- other than biglaw, what is a good path?

What do you like to do? Why do you want to be a lawyer?


I love reading/writing/debating/studying policy/being around people smarter than I am. I want to be a lawyer because it seems to involve some of these interests, and because I have no job skills.


In that case, don't become a lawyer :lol:

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jbagelboy
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:01 pm

njames1961 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
njames1961 wrote:Thanks a lot, I appreciate both of your responses. Definitely needed a pick me up...


As said earlier, take the biggest scholarship you get. What you'll want is career flexibility, which requires financial freedom. Don't pay sticker or close to it anywhere.


But for certain positions like a fed clerkship/competitive fellowship for example, would it not be worthwhile to spend the extra $ for the higher likelihood of getting one at a higher ranked school? Like UChicago vs. Northwestern?


Depends how much money and which schools you are comparing. Rarely is the difference between two good schools worth many tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Npret
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby Npret » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:03 pm

SweetTort wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
SweetTort wrote:But like... what's the alternative? I'm going to a t14 in the fall with minimal debt-- other than biglaw, what is a good path?

What do you like to do? Why do you want to be a lawyer?
r

I love reading/writing/debating/studying policy/being around people smarter than I am. I want to be a lawyer because it seems to involve some of these interests, and because I have no job skills.


There are thousands of jobs out there. Don't go to law because of a failure of imagination or initiative to find out something else. You are obviously very smart but you have to figure out what you want to do with your life.
This isn't the recession where no one could find a job.

All we can do is tell you what biglaw corporate practice is like. We can't figure out your dream job but for very, very few people is biglaw corporate practice the dream.
Last edited by Npret on Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

20170322
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby 20170322 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:06 pm

Npret wrote:
SweetTort wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
SweetTort wrote:But like... what's the alternative? I'm going to a t14 in the fall with minimal debt-- other than biglaw, what is a good path?

What do you like to do? Why do you want to be a lawyer?
r

I love reading/writing/debating/studying policy/being around people smarter than I am. I want to be a lawyer because it seems to involve some of these interests, and because I have no job skills.


There are thousands of jobs out there. Don't go to law because of a failure of imagination or initiative to find out something else. You are obviously very smart but you have to figure out what you want to do with your life.


I'm definitely attending law school in the fall. My question is, if NYC biglaw sucks so much, what else is on the table?

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smaug
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby smaug » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:09 pm

SweetTort wrote:
Npret wrote:
SweetTort wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
SweetTort wrote:But like... what's the alternative? I'm going to a t14 in the fall with minimal debt-- other than biglaw, what is a good path?

What do you like to do? Why do you want to be a lawyer?
r

I love reading/writing/debating/studying policy/being around people smarter than I am. I want to be a lawyer because it seems to involve some of these interests, and because I have no job skills.


There are thousands of jobs out there. Don't go to law because of a failure of imagination or initiative to find out something else. You are obviously very smart but you have to figure out what you want to do with your life.


I'm definitely attending law school in the fall. My question is, if NYC biglaw sucks so much, what else is on the table?


gubmint seems like a pretty good gig

Npret
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby Npret » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:10 pm

SweetTort wrote:
Npret wrote:
SweetTort wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
SweetTort wrote:But like... what's the alternative? I'm going to a t14 in the fall with minimal debt-- other than biglaw, what is a good path?

What do you like to do? Why do you want to be a lawyer?
r

I love reading/writing/debating/studying policy/being around people smarter than I am. I want to be a lawyer because it seems to involve some of these interests, and because I have no job skills.


There are thousands of jobs out there. Don't go to law because of a failure of imagination or initiative to find out something else. You are obviously very smart but you have to figure out what you want to do with your life.


I'm definitely attending law school in the fall
I My question is, if NYC biglaw sucks so much, what else is on the table?


It's basically the same answer. You have to figure out what you are interested in doing. There are many different career paths in law. Are you asking for a list? Why not start with your law school career office?

For what it's worth a therapist I know says he's only met one happy lawyer in more than 20 years of practice and she was a labor lawyer that worked for a nyc union.

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zot1
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby zot1 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:20 pm

smaug wrote:
SweetTort wrote:
Npret wrote:
SweetTort wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
SweetTort wrote:But like... what's the alternative? I'm going to a t14 in the fall with minimal debt-- other than biglaw, what is a good path?

What do you like to do? Why do you want to be a lawyer?
r

I love reading/writing/debating/studying policy/being around people smarter than I am. I want to be a lawyer because it seems to involve some of these interests, and because I have no job skills.


There are thousands of jobs out there. Don't go to law because of a failure of imagination or initiative to find out something else. You are obviously very smart but you have to figure out what you want to do with your life.


I'm definitely attending law school in the fall. My question is, if NYC biglaw sucks so much, what else is on the table?


gubmint seems like a pretty good gig


And that can sometimes be a crapshoot.

tomwatts
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby tomwatts » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:31 am

SweetTort wrote:I'm definitely attending law school in the fall. My question is, if NYC biglaw sucks so much, what else is on the table?

A sampling off the top of my head:
* Biglaw anywhere else (Boston, DC, SF, LA, Chicago, etc. — Texas has a reputation for more livable biglaw than what's available in NYC)
* Government work of any kind — federal, state, or local, ranging from lit-heavy (e.g., prosecutor) to not-at-all lit-related (policy work, etc.) — be aware that at the local level a lot of this is outsourced, so there are law firms that actually do municipal law, for example — also, career clerk, especially for a state court judge
* Traditional public interest (e.g., ACLU, Public Citizen)
* Private public interest (plaintiffs' firms, union firms, etc.)
* Small-law and midlaw in practice areas that biglaw doesn't have (e.g., family law)

And that's just what comes to mind in a couple of minutes. Lawyers do a ton of things. NYC biglaw is not the only option.
Last edited by tomwatts on Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

notgreat
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby notgreat » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:41 am

SweetTort wrote:But like... what's the alternative? I'm going to a t14 in the fall with minimal debt-- other than biglaw, what is a good path?


Smaug and tom watts answered your question I think. Also, I think corporate in NYC is awful, but I can't write off other big law practices in secondary markets.

I did want to give you some advice regarding debt. I attended a t14 anticipating minimal debt. It ended up ballooning to well over $100K because I took on way too much extra debt for partying and fun. If you really want to keep your options open set a reasonable budget and stick to it. Make sure to build in wriggle room for unexpected increases in tuition and fees and some fun. Will be easier if you are not going to Columbia/NYU/Chicago/Penn/ Georgetown.

theventriloquist
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby theventriloquist » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:38 pm

blah blah blah...I'm a harvard grad who dosen't like my job...poor me

The OP and others who agree are a disgrace. they would be misrible anyways. Here are some alternatives:

Medicine: Look at doctor hours; my dad and brother are doctors. And the stress is strong, much more stress. Considering that the OP even says most of what he does is useless, he can fuck up and no one knows. Doctors can't be that way.

IB/consulting : Same long hours, same stuff about layoff

So what is it? PhD? That is a shit job too, most likely you won''t even get a job.

So would you prefer construction worker? McDonald server? You think that is better? Have u ever worked in that? You think earning 6 figures for doing pointless work is really worse?

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Danger Zone
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby Danger Zone » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:04 pm

theventriloquist wrote:blah blah blah...I'm a harvard grad who dosen't like my job...poor me

The OP and others who agree are a disgrace. they would be misrible anyways. Here are some alternatives:

Medicine: Look at doctor hours; my dad and brother are doctors. And the stress is strong, much more stress. Considering that the OP even says most of what he does is useless, he can fuck up and no one knows. Doctors can't be that way.

IB/consulting : Same long hours, same stuff about layoff

So what is it? PhD? That is a shit job too, most likely you won''t even get a job.

So would you prefer construction worker? McDonald server? You think that is better? Have u ever worked in that? You think earning 6 figures for doing pointless work is really worse?

STFU 0L

notgreat
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby notgreat » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:59 pm

theventriloquist wrote:blah blah blah...I'm a harvard grad who dosen't like my job...poor me

The OP and others who agree are a disgrace. they would be misrible anyways. Here are some alternatives:

Medicine: Look at doctor hours; my dad and brother are doctors. And the stress is strong, much more stress. Considering that the OP even says most of what he does is useless, he can fuck up and no one knows. Doctors can't be that way. Both of these statements are bullshit.

IB/consulting : Same long hours, same stuff about layoff Exit opportunities are much better and are achievable much quicker.

So what is it? PhD? That is a shit job too, most likely you won''t even get a job. False choice. Also, there are plenty of grad degrees that lead to jobs, but you have to have the right background and choose the right one

So would you prefer construction worker? McDonald server? You think that is better? Have u ever worked in that? You think earning 6 figures for doing pointless work is really worse? I have worked as a construction worker and in retail. I'd never go back to construction and probably not retail. But again, these aren't the only options out there.


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Danger Zone
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby Danger Zone » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:02 am

I liked my retail job better than biglaw fwiw

SUPERCHEF
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby SUPERCHEF » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:54 am

theventriloquist wrote:blah blah blah...I'm a harvard grad who dosen't like my job...poor me

The OP and others who agree are a disgrace. they would be misrible anyways. Here are some alternatives:

Medicine: Look at doctor hours; my dad and brother are doctors. And the stress is strong, much more stress. Considering that the OP even says most of what he does is useless, he can fuck up and no one knows. Doctors can't be that way.

IB/consulting : Same long hours, same stuff about layoff

So what is it? PhD? That is a shit job too, most likely you won''t even get a job.

So would you prefer construction worker? McDonald server? You think that is better? Have u ever worked in that? You think earning 6 figures for doing pointless work is really worse?


hahahahahahahaha this is cute

notgreat
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby notgreat » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:31 pm

Danger Zone wrote:I liked my retail job better than biglaw fwiw


I had one really bad retail job that was (pay and opportunities for advancement aside) as bad or worse than big law. The rest were all better.

palalc
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby palalc » Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:33 pm

Incredibly insightful thread. 0L with some questions though. Does anyone go from NYC biglaw for a couple years to partner track at a midlaw firm with decent PPP? For example, the poster a few pages back who referenced his senior-partner father at a midlaw firm in Florida with ~500k PPP? Maybe there's some obvious flaw in this career trajectory I'm missing (ie. as a function of today's legal market)? Maybe the income is still considerably lower? Or no firm will hire said biglaw associate, even with ties to the region? Or it's just an all-together impossible path for some reason?

Also, will having a unique background pre-law school help in anyway determine one's trajectory in biglaw or after? Or with Gov jobs for that matter, either right out of law school or post-biglaw? I hate to use the word "unique" because I know everyone would probably say the same about themselves, but think worked/studied in foreign country-as a US citizen-and speaks the language (particularly relevant country and tough language to learn). Totally irrelevant?

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Danger Zone
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby Danger Zone » Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:29 pm

You have to know that the right answer to all of those questions is "it depends" right?

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Po$eidon
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby Po$eidon » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:12 pm

0L here. I just read every post of this entire thread - with a sense of dread. Made a deposit at a top law school recently. On a big scholarship but not full. Reading this thread has me spooked. I was never considering transactional biglaw before but this has me terrified for litigation biglaw and law school generally too. Are Fedgov, NYC local gov, PI, clerking, maybe midlaw litigation - are any of these other routes obtainable enough in moderate acceptable paying forms to make going worth it? Do the lower paying positions ever lead anywhere good? Is having an existence or any semblance of happiness obtainable in this career path?

This thread reads like an existentialist horror novel.

UpandDown97
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby UpandDown97 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:06 pm

Po$eidon wrote:0L here. I just read every post of this entire thread - with a sense of dread. Made a deposit at a top law school recently. On a big scholarship but not full. Reading this thread has me spooked. I was never considering transactional biglaw before but this has me terrified for litigation biglaw and law school generally too. Are Fedgov, NYC local gov, PI, clerking, maybe midlaw litigation - are any of these other routes obtainable enough in moderate acceptable paying forms to make going worth it? Do the lower paying positions ever lead anywhere good? Is having an existence or any semblance of happiness obtainable in this career path?

This thread reads like an existentialist horror novel.


Once you get to law school, you'll figure out who the people are that post on TLS regularly. You'll remember this thread. And you'll feel better.

Npret
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby Npret » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:10 pm

UpandDown97 wrote:
Po$eidon wrote:0L here. I just read every post of this entire thread - with a sense of dread. Made a deposit at a top law school recently. On a big scholarship but not full. Reading this thread has me spooked. I was never considering transactional biglaw before but this has me terrified for litigation biglaw and law school generally too. Are Fedgov, NYC local gov, PI, clerking, maybe midlaw litigation - are any of these other routes obtainable enough in moderate acceptable paying forms to make going worth it? Do the lower paying positions ever lead anywhere good? Is having an existence or any semblance of happiness obtainable in this career path?

This thread reads like an existentialist horror novel.


Once you get to law school, you'll figure out who the people are that post on TLS regularly. You'll remember this thread. And you'll feel better.


Lol. Have you worked at all in biglaw?

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Po$eidon
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby Po$eidon » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:12 pm

UpandDown97 wrote:
Once you get to law school, you'll figure out who the people are that post on TLS regularly. You'll remember this thread. And you'll feel better.


Umm why? Sorry I just want to know why I will feel better at law school? Are the reports untrue? Will my options be good? These employment outcomes sound utterly terrifying

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heythatslife
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby heythatslife » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:01 pm

Po$eidon wrote:
UpandDown97 wrote:
Once you get to law school, you'll figure out who the people are that post on TLS regularly. You'll remember this thread. And you'll feel better.


Umm why? Sorry I just want to know why I will feel better at law school? Are the reports untrue? Will my options be good? These employment outcomes sound utterly terrifying

I know some very level-headed and hardworking people in real life who are currently in biglaw and they tell me what they're doing is not sustainable. Some people cope better than others, but just look at the attrition rate in biglaw. It's clearly not for everyone - heck, even for most people. And these were already "winners" with good academic pedigree/top grades/both.

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nunumaster
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Re: So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate?

Postby nunumaster » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:41 pm

.
Last edited by nunumaster on Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.




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