GULC Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Gray
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Gray » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:14 pm

Capitol_Idea wrote:
Gray wrote:
Gray wrote:Has anyone taken that 1 CR scholarly editing course? Is it an As for everyone situation?

BUMP one of you fucks must have been a journal nerd.

No it really is just you here

god damnit.

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Hand
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Hand » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:54 pm

Gray wrote:
Capitol_Idea wrote:
Gray wrote:
Gray wrote:Has anyone taken that 1 CR scholarly editing course? Is it an As for everyone situation?

BUMP one of you fucks must have been a journal nerd.

No it really is just you here

god damnit.

Well you and me but I have no insight either

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thelincolnlawyer
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby thelincolnlawyer » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:49 pm

BmoreOrLess wrote:I was terribly hungover when I was a judge. I can think of a few people who would be dicks as judges, but for the most part no one actually cares and are just throwing out basic questions.

Oh and they have absolutely no bearing on your grade. I completely bombed mine (got specifically called out for being unprepared) and still did well in LRW.

You just saved me a lot of prep time, thanks. Many paranoid classmates had me convinced it would factor into the class participation

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Gray
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Gray » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:25 pm

thelincolnlawyer wrote:
BmoreOrLess wrote:I was terribly hungover when I was a judge. I can think of a few people who would be dicks as judges, but for the most part no one actually cares and are just throwing out basic questions.

Oh and they have absolutely no bearing on your grade. I completely bombed mine (got specifically called out for being unprepared) and still did well in LRW.

You just saved me a lot of prep time, thanks. Many paranoid classmates had me convinced it would factor into the class participation

I think the difference between super nervous and unprepared is really small, so no one will notice/care. Just make sure to show up. Unlike my partner last year.

FWIW I did not prepare for more than an hour for my actual moot court competition and we advanced to the final rounds. I think if you have written a brief and can remember a few case names, you'll be fine.

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thelincolnlawyer
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby thelincolnlawyer » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:51 pm

Gray wrote:I think the difference between super nervous and unprepared is really small, so no one will notice/care. Just make sure to show up. Unlike my partner last year.

FWIW I did not prepare for more than an hour for my actual moot court competition and we advanced to the final rounds. I think if you have written a brief and can remember a few case names, you'll be fine.

You had a partner not show up? How did they get away with that? Seems really irresponsible to just not care about a partner in that scenario

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Gray
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Gray » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:56 am

thelincolnlawyer wrote:
Gray wrote:I think the difference between super nervous and unprepared is really small, so no one will notice/care. Just make sure to show up. Unlike my partner last year.

FWIW I did not prepare for more than an hour for my actual moot court competition and we advanced to the final rounds. I think if you have written a brief and can remember a few case names, you'll be fine.

You had a partner not show up? How did they get away with that? Seems really irresponsible to just not care about a partner in that scenario

They had a make-up at a later date. I ended up doing both arguments, but i volunteered to - they didn't make me. It went really well, so that's another point in the 'why bother preparing' column.

trramic
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby trramic » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:30 pm

Anybody willing & able to share past outlines and/or exams for Seidman's Con Law I class? Would be much appreciated.

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ChristineBaskets
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby ChristineBaskets » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:53 pm

From reading the past few pages, I think it's safe to conclude I should be spending minimal time on prepping for this LRW oral argument. I'm still confused, though - what exactly is expected of me (at minimum)?

Will it be more me giving a speech to the judges? Or will it be more judges asking questions, which I then respond to? Should I be writing a "script"/outline to read off of that is separate from my actual brief?

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BmoreOrLess
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby BmoreOrLess » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:32 am

ChristineBaskets wrote:From reading the past few pages, I think it's safe to conclude I should be spending minimal time on prepping for this LRW oral argument. I'm still confused, though - what exactly is expected of me (at minimum)?

Will it be more me giving a speech to the judges? Or will it be more judges asking questions, which I then respond to? Should I be writing a "script"/outline to read off of that is separate from my actual brief?


I wasn't a fellow, so i can't say what is expected of you, but the judges have a set of canned questions and a verrrrry basic memo on the topic. You don't really need to prepare for a nuanced discussion of the law or the facts. If there's a case or fact that is blatantly opposite to your position on a point, you can expect to be asked about it (because it will be one the judges canned questions), but you don't need to worry about nit-picky type stuff because the judges won't know about it.

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Gray
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Gray » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:01 am

BmoreOrLess wrote:
ChristineBaskets wrote:From reading the past few pages, I think it's safe to conclude I should be spending minimal time on prepping for this LRW oral argument. I'm still confused, though - what exactly is expected of me (at minimum)?

Will it be more me giving a speech to the judges? Or will it be more judges asking questions, which I then respond to? Should I be writing a "script"/outline to read off of that is separate from my actual brief?


I wasn't a fellow, so i can't say what is expected of you, but the judges have a set of canned questions and a verrrrry basic memo on the topic. You don't really need to prepare for a nuanced discussion of the law or the facts. If there's a case or fact that is blatantly opposite to your position on a point, you can expect to be asked about it (because it will be one the judges canned questions), but you don't need to worry about nit-picky type stuff because the judges won't know about it.

Judges actually have a draft of the law fellow's bench memo, so it's not basic. That doesn't mean they actually read it though.

You will attend a thing next Friday (I think) with an oral argument demo, which will clear up a lot of questions. We also did like a practice run with our law fellow last year. usually its like 30 seconds to a minute of prepared speech, at which point the judges start asking questions. It should be like a conversation, just with a formal tone.

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Hand
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Hand » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:47 am

Gray wrote:
BmoreOrLess wrote:
ChristineBaskets wrote:From reading the past few pages, I think it's safe to conclude I should be spending minimal time on prepping for this LRW oral argument. I'm still confused, though - what exactly is expected of me (at minimum)?

Will it be more me giving a speech to the judges? Or will it be more judges asking questions, which I then respond to? Should I be writing a "script"/outline to read off of that is separate from my actual brief?


I wasn't a fellow, so i can't say what is expected of you, but the judges have a set of canned questions and a verrrrry basic memo on the topic. You don't really need to prepare for a nuanced discussion of the law or the facts. If there's a case or fact that is blatantly opposite to your position on a point, you can expect to be asked about it (because it will be one the judges canned questions), but you don't need to worry about nit-picky type stuff because the judges won't know about it.

Judges actually have a draft of the law fellow's bench memo, so it's not basic. That doesn't mean they actually read it though.

You will attend a thing next Friday (I think) with an oral argument demo, which will clear up a lot of questions. We also did like a practice run with our law fellow last year. usually its like 30 seconds to a minute of prepared speech, at which point the judges start asking questions. It should be like a conversation, just with a formal tone.

Gray after tricking me into being a judge you really should stop telling these kids they don't need to prepare

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Gray
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Gray » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:49 am

Hand wrote:Gray after tricking me into being a judge you really should stop telling these kids they don't need to prepare

YES YOUR HONOR.

Start practicing now, kids. Judge Hand is going to ask you the *tough* questions until you cry.

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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Anonnonnon » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:14 pm

Anyone have any Barrister's Ball stories?

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Gray
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Gray » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:16 pm

Anonnonnon wrote:Anyone have any Barrister's Ball stories?

Yeah two or three years ago people fucked on someone's desk in an office at the venue, and we were banned from the venue

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Future Ex-Engineer
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Future Ex-Engineer » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:22 pm

Just got into GULC today!

Question for current/past students: My goal/plan is a few years of IP Lit in DC followed by hopefully FBI special agent (I'd be happy with NSA or CIA also) for the majority of my career. After talking with a number of alumni/adcoms/lawyer friends, I think I've narrowed my top choices to UVA/NYU/GULC. Do any of you current students have similar plans, or have friends with similar plans and/or do you think GULC would be a good choice for that route?

In my mind it makes sense b/c it's in DC, so I'm already in my target market for networking, but I'm also a 0L with no real experience with this sort of thing.

Note: I'm not worried about qualifying for either job (have a master's in electrical engineering with work experience), I am primarily interested in whether or not a GULC JD can open those doors enough for me to get my foot in.

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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Anonnonnon » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:50 pm

Gray wrote:
Anonnonnon wrote:Anyone have any Barrister's Ball stories?

Yeah two or three years ago people fucked on someone's desk in an office at the venue, and we were banned from the venue

That's a pretty good one, I'd say

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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby usn26 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:29 am

mrgstephe wrote:Just got into GULC today!

Question for current/past students: My goal/plan is a few years of IP Lit in DC followed by hopefully FBI special agent (I'd be happy with NSA or CIA also) for the majority of my career. After talking with a number of alumni/adcoms/lawyer friends, I think I've narrowed my top choices to UVA/NYU/GULC. Do any of you current students have similar plans, or have friends with similar plans and/or do you think GULC would be a good choice for that route?

In my mind it makes sense b/c it's in DC, so I'm already in my target market for networking, but I'm also a 0L with no real experience with this sort of thing.

Note: I'm not worried about qualifying for either job (have a master's in electrical engineering with work experience), I am primarily interested in whether or not a GULC JD can open those doors enough for me to get my foot in.


Do you have some sort of national security background? I don't seen any obvious transition between IP associate and three-letter-agency agent.

GULC has a few nominal advantages if you were deadset on going FLE after law school, but given similar costs you'd probably be better off at UVA or NYU.

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Future Ex-Engineer
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Future Ex-Engineer » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:02 pm

usn26 wrote:
mrgstephe wrote:Just got into GULC today!

Question for current/past students: My goal/plan is a few years of IP Lit in DC followed by hopefully FBI special agent (I'd be happy with NSA or CIA also) for the majority of my career. After talking with a number of alumni/adcoms/lawyer friends, I think I've narrowed my top choices to UVA/NYU/GULC. Do any of you current students have similar plans, or have friends with similar plans and/or do you think GULC would be a good choice for that route?

In my mind it makes sense b/c it's in DC, so I'm already in my target market for networking, but I'm also a 0L with no real experience with this sort of thing.

Note: I'm not worried about qualifying for either job (have a master's in electrical engineering with work experience), I am primarily interested in whether or not a GULC JD can open those doors enough for me to get my foot in.


Do you have some sort of national security background? I don't seen any obvious transition between IP associate and three-letter-agency agent.

GULC has a few nominal advantages if you were deadset on going FLE after law school, but given similar costs you'd probably be better off at UVA or NYU.


I do have an NS background. Have held a DoD clearance for a number of years and worked national security projects (on the engineering side) at a couple national labs (MIT Lincoln Lab is one of them). Also currently employed by a DoD contractor. My thoughts were IP associate simply because that seems to be the best union of engineering/law, and I'll need at least 1 more year of work experience after law school to meet the work experience requirement for special agents. I'd be down to clerk or take some other role also - I just know I'll need 1 more year to meet the work experience requirement, and then probably another during the hiring process (it supposedly takes around 250 days).

If I end up getting invited to interview/accepted as an ASPIRE finalist at NYU, that would be the obvious choice, but I definitely am not expecting that to happen. Same with UVA - their current fin aid offer is much lower than other T14s I've gotten into. Still waiting to hear from GULC - I believe they have said early March is when they'll start giving out fin aid info.

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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby usn26 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:28 pm

mrgstephe wrote:I do have an NS background. Have held a DoD clearance for a number of years and worked national security projects (on the engineering side) at a couple national labs (MIT Lincoln Lab is one of them). Also currently employed by a DoD contractor. My thoughts were IP associate simply because that seems to be the best union of engineering/law, and I'll need at least 1 more year of work experience after law school to meet the work experience requirement for special agents. I'd be down to clerk or take some other role also - I just know I'll need 1 more year to meet the work experience requirement, and then probably another during the hiring process (it supposedly takes around 250 days).

If I end up getting invited to interview/accepted as an ASPIRE finalist at NYU, that would be the obvious choice, but I definitely am not expecting that to happen. Same with UVA - their current fin aid offer is much lower than other T14s I've gotten into. Still waiting to hear from GULC - I believe they have said early March is when they'll start giving out fin aid info.


Okay that's different. If your plan was to just do IP law for a few years and then try to be an FBI agent that'd be a crazy longshot plan, and doing it at GULC vice NYU/UVA (which would give you better overall prospects) would be doubly nuts.

GULC has plenty going for it but any advantage it has over any NYU/UVA wrt getting an FBI gig is going to be peripheral. Like it's slightly easier to do an externship with an agency during the year, or make connections, or take certain classes. But you can do all of that at the other schools as well.

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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Gray » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:00 pm

mrgstephe wrote: followed by hopefully FBI special agent (I'd be happy with NSA or CIA also) for the majority of my career.

mrgstephe wrote:I'd be down to clerk or take some other role also - I just know I'll need 1 more year to meet the work experience requirement, and then probably another during the hiring process (it supposedly takes around 250 days).

Maybe I misread your original post, but you want to work as a special agent for the FBI, not as a lawyer, right? I'm sure you've considered this, but why not keep working until you meet the WE requirements? You seem to have a decent career already. Why spend all that money and time at law school if you don't want to work as a lawyer? Or move to DC and do a part time MA in Security Studies while continuing to work?

Anyway, the advantage to GULC is that you can intern at these some of agencies during the academic year to build your resume - there are also a lot of really great national security law professors here, plus there are a lot of other JD students with this focus, and LLM students in the Nat Sec program with experience in the area. So I think, yes GULC could open those doors to some extent - I do get the impression that there are more resources here than some peer schools. I think UVA would probably also be a good choice. I don't really see why you would have to do IP though - that's a fairly particular practice area, and your engineering background would probably also be seen as a plus for a lot of the firms with government contracting and national security practices, which might be a better stepping stone for your interests.

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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Future Ex-Engineer » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:07 pm

Gray wrote:
mrgstephe wrote: followed by hopefully FBI special agent (I'd be happy with NSA or CIA also) for the majority of my career.

mrgstephe wrote:I'd be down to clerk or take some other role also - I just know I'll need 1 more year to meet the work experience requirement, and then probably another during the hiring process (it supposedly takes around 250 days).

Maybe I misread your original post, but you want to work as a special agent for the FBI, not as a lawyer, right? I'm sure you've considered this, but why not keep working until you meet the WE requirements? You seem to have a decent career already. Why spend all that money and time at law school if you don't want to work as a lawyer? Or move to DC and do a part time MA in Security Studies while continuing to work?

Anyway, the advantage to GULC is that you can intern at these some of agencies during the academic year to build your resume - there are also a lot of really great national security law professors here, plus there are a lot of other JD students with this focus, and LLM students in the Nat Sec program with experience in the area. So I think, yes GULC could open those doors to some extent - I do get the impression that there are more resources here than some peer schools. I think UVA would probably also be a good choice. I don't really see why you would have to do IP though - that's a fairly particular practice area, and your engineering background would probably also be seen as a plus for a lot of the firms with government contracting and national security practices, which might be a better stepping stone for your interests.


Thanks for the response - I didn't go super deeply into my background in my original question:
Basically, I do have an objectively 'good' job currently, but it isn't what I want to do, and I don't see it actually opening the doors to do the kind of work I want to do (3 letter intelligence org). I've spoken with a number of admissions people and current lawyers (a few in my family) who all have friends working for FBI/others and they all have agreed that while I might get my foot in the door as a multi-year work experience engineer, I'd have an excellent shot with a JD/MSEE combo and by making connections in the DC area.

So basically, that's the reason for the game plan. I also wanted to pursue law school when I started college, but was encouraged by family (again the lawyer relatives) to get a "real" degree that I could get a job with after undergrad (so I went STEM) and then if I still felt like there was a law-draw afterwards to investigate it then.

The reality is I think I would enjoy being a lawyer more than being an engineer, and that comes with the added perk that I want to do FLE more than any of the other options. I think LS puts me in the best spot to start a fulfilling career by my mid-late 20s.

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usn26
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby usn26 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:27 pm

If you're comfortable with the possibility of just being a regular lawyer, either for a firm or for [3-letter agency], then law school is a fine choice. I'm not completely tuned in to FLE hiring ins and outs, so I can't say that an alternative route (get an intel job, join the military, become an investigator, join LE) would necessarily be a *better* option, but the law school > FLE pipeline is crowded. You background will help a lot, but its an uphill battle.

Have you considered the part time program? If you really want FLE above all else that seems like the best option outside of maybe the ASPIRE program.

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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Glasseyes » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:27 pm

mrgstephe wrote:Thanks for the response - I didn't go super deeply into my background in my original question:
Basically, I do have an objectively 'good' job currently, but it isn't what I want to do, and I don't see it actually opening the doors to do the kind of work I want to do (3 letter intelligence org). I've spoken with a number of admissions people and current lawyers (a few in my family) who all have friends working for FBI/others and they all have agreed that while I might get my foot in the door as a multi-year work experience engineer, I'd have an excellent shot with a JD/MSEE combo and by making connections in the DC area.

So basically, that's the reason for the game plan. I also wanted to pursue law school when I started college, but was encouraged by family (again the lawyer relatives) to get a "real" degree that I could get a job with after undergrad (so I went STEM) and then if I still felt like there was a law-draw afterwards to investigate it then.

The reality is I think I would enjoy being a lawyer more than being an engineer, and that comes with the added perk that I want to do FLE more than any of the other options. I think LS puts me in the best spot to start a fulfilling career by my mid-late 20s.


Just to echo the others saying similar stuff, yeah, I'd at least do a long hard think on the value of going to law school, with 3 years of lost pay plus 6 figures of hellish debt, to do something that doesn't require a law degree. Sure, this route probably can get you to your target destination if the cards fall into place, but I assume so would any number of shorter and cheaper grad programs.

For whatever an anecdote is worth (not much), the only person in law school I know with any real connection or interest in the FBI worked as a special agent for several years BEFORE going to law school, and now this person is gung ho on doing something else. If there's a recurring TLS theme (besides "retake"), it's "question your goals before ruining your life in pursuit of them," so that's my advice.

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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby nrthwst4now » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:22 pm

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Last edited by nrthwst4now on Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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usn26
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby usn26 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:14 pm

nrthwst4now wrote:Applied to GULC on EA transfer from a TTT. I have near top grades at my school and a judicial externship with a federal district court judge in CA this summer.

Any thoughts on what the EIW process would be like for someone in my situation? I have noticed everyone says median grades or above, just wondering if being a transfer gives you an auto-ding from everyone or just some people...


Almost every transfer I'm familiar with did fine at EIW. I'm not sure how/if their experiences might have been different from natives', but they were employed.




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