GULC Students Taking Questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Hand
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Hand » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:55 am

Capitol_Idea wrote:
Npret wrote:Do you guys mind sharing your debt at repayment?
LST has the fully financed debt at repayment for the class starting in Fall 2017 at just under $320,000. That doesn't seem right to me.

What will you owe? It looks like more than half the class pays sticker, but it's hard to know if that is all debt financed.

Paid sticker because I did not TLS before going to law school, but had savings and a job to whittle down costs.

Post grad was at 92K I think

Thanks to TLS I negotiated the price down considerably. Thanks to being a dumbass the rest is debt-financed. Should end up with about 100k in debt by graduation.

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RParadela
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby RParadela » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:24 pm

Hand wrote:
call-me-bubbles wrote:This is the Internet (and TLS at that), so I can't tell if you guys are being serious or sarcastic in shitting on Georgetown, despite the fact that it's your own school. I'm really pumped about possibly/probably attending, so please tell me you're just messing around... :shock:


I like it here just fine, but that's neither here nor there. What should concern you is that of the 678 people who graduated from GULC in 2015, only 456 (67.3%) were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs ten months after graduation. And if you're paying sticker, like 51% of the students do, you'll have about $320K in debt upon graduation.


How much do you think that the 65% number is lower because of people from GULC finding prestigious non-law jobs in DC?

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Hand
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Hand » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:25 pm

RParadela wrote:
Hand wrote:
call-me-bubbles wrote:This is the Internet (and TLS at that), so I can't tell if you guys are being serious or sarcastic in shitting on Georgetown, despite the fact that it's your own school. I'm really pumped about possibly/probably attending, so please tell me you're just messing around... :shock:


I like it here just fine, but that's neither here nor there. What should concern you is that of the 678 people who graduated from GULC in 2015, only 456 (67.3%) were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs ten months after graduation. And if you're paying sticker, like 51% of the students do, you'll have about $320K in debt upon graduation.


How much do you think that the 65% number is lower because of people from GULC finding prestigious non-law jobs in DC?

somewhat for sure, hard to quantify

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Capitol_Idea » Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:27 pm

RParadela wrote:
Hand wrote:
call-me-bubbles wrote:This is the Internet (and TLS at that), so I can't tell if you guys are being serious or sarcastic in shitting on Georgetown, despite the fact that it's your own school. I'm really pumped about possibly/probably attending, so please tell me you're just messing around... :shock:


I like it here just fine, but that's neither here nor there. What should concern you is that of the 678 people who graduated from GULC in 2015, only 456 (67.3%) were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs ten months after graduation. And if you're paying sticker, like 51% of the students do, you'll have about $320K in debt upon graduation.


How much do you think that the 65% number is lower because of people from GULC finding prestigious non-law jobs in DC?

I don't think enough to move the needle on any rankings or school choice decisions. The evening student crowd probably has the highest number of previously/currently employed with feet in industries and politics where they can (and sometimes do) return, and even then the numbers for Biglaw/employment/underemployment in general track very similar to the day students.

The inescapable problem of GULC is that it has a massive number of students, a small endowment/budget from which to work (relative to its higher-ranked peers, and is located in a competitive market that draws the other T13 in more numbers than there are corresponding biglaw seats to fill, minimizing a home advantage.

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usn26
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby usn26 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:14 pm

call-me-bubbles wrote:
Hand wrote:
EzraFitz wrote:
Capitol_Idea wrote:
usn26 wrote:Question for my fellow GULCers. We all say/think the "gulk"/"gulker"/"gulky" pronunciation, right? Or is that just me?

If we're going phonetic here, it's pronounced ˈdʌmpstər ˈfaɪər

(I say 'gulk')

Exactly this.

I try to keep the fact that I am in any way affiliated with this place on the down low


This is the Internet (and TLS at that), so I can't tell if you guys are being serious or sarcastic in shitting on Georgetown, despite the fact that it's your own school. I'm really pumped about possibly/probably attending, so please tell me you're just messing around... :shock:


I'm not sure how much of it is that Georgetown is the worst, or just that law school is the worst. It's probably a healthy balance of the two. But you look at it as anything other than a transaction requiring cost/benefit analysis at your own peril. And to the extent you consider how "proud" you are of GULC or how excited you are about it, well, you make that determination on your own and you should feel free to feel that way. Plenty of people here still feel that way in 2/3L, although I think reality will hit you sooner or later.

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call-me-bubbles
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby call-me-bubbles » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:29 pm

.
Last edited by call-me-bubbles on Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Capitol_Idea » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:05 pm

call-me-bubbles wrote:TLS is filled with the cream of the crop
lol. Also more to the point, GULC panders to the 'cream of the crop' by advertising itself as a top-tier school with national appeal. It doesn't play to regional markets so yes, it is more fair to compare it to the t13 than it is podunk university school of law and auto repair.

call-me-bubbles wrote:but if you feel like things are so bleak already at one particular institution, why not leave?
A number of reasons: 1) by the time you can transfer, it's generally too late for it to have a meaningful impact on your Biglaw employability, 2) transferring is a huge logistical pain in the ass, 3) you lose out on any scholarship money for 2L/3L because transferees get nothing.


I did well coming out of GULC, but I'm not going to pretend it was some prestige of the school that did anything more than get firms in the door. I had to bust my ass to make it into my firm and you should expect to as well if you want little better than a 50/50 shot at a sustainable and enjoyable career that lets you pay off those loans. In other schools it's substantially the same calculus but the odds are better and the school's name recognition gets you in the door a little easier.

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usn26
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby usn26 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:53 pm

call-me-bubbles wrote: I'm confused by how the same people who one day offer positive remarks about classes, programs, professors, etc., are also the very folks now calling GULC a dumpster fire.


Well it probably depends on if someone was asking about the things that are positive or the things that are a dumpster fire. *Any* law school has good things and bad about it. GULC has so much going for it that it can easily be the right choice for someone even if they don't "like" it, think its a great school, or take some sort of pride in going here. That's certainly the case for me.

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Gray
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Gray » Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:11 pm

To offer a different perspective - I haven't seen any real dumpster fire elements to the school (ok 1 dumpster fire, the registrar's office, but we can survive that).

My experience has been great - really good professors, lots of opportunities to put shit on my resume, I've taken courses in topics that am interested in, and interned in DC during the year. I am interested in a particular government field, and there are a LOT of profs here who have worked in that area, which has been really helpful. In terms of jobs, I'm happy (I did not bust my ass at all) and TBH everyone I know at or below median managed to land big law if they wanted it.

That said, GULC was my first choice, and I felt lucky to get in given my UGPA (if you want to talk dumpster fires...). I don't really understand the hate - but maybe I just have rose colored glasses, IDK.

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usn26
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby usn26 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:36 pm

Gray wrote:In terms of jobs, I'm happy (I did not bust my ass at all) and TBH everyone I know at or below median managed to land big law if they wanted it.


Don't listen to Gray re above. Her experiences are extremely not universal, and she's misremembering about people at or (I assume she meant) above median getting biglaw.

Otherwise I agree.

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Glasseyes
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Glasseyes » Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:21 pm

the registrar is a legit nightmare office staffed by malevolent incompetents who take pride in fucking up and blaming you (as their dead eyes mock you, knowingly, cruelly). other than that this place is fine.

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Gray
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Gray » Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:25 pm

usn26 wrote:
Gray wrote:In terms of jobs, I'm happy (I did not bust my ass at all) and TBH everyone I know at or below median managed to land big law if they wanted it.


Don't listen to Gray re above. Her experiences are extremely not universal, and she's misremembering about people at or (I assume she meant) above median getting biglaw.

Otherwise I agree.

I actually did mean at or below....should have phrased that differently. But have have 3 or 4 friends with less than 3.3 who landed at decent firms in NY or home markets. I do know a couple of people above median who struck out but for one person it was a lukewarm interest in Big Law and the other it was just absurdly bad luck.


But yeah I am sure my experiences are not typical - I got really lucky in many ways - but I still don't see how it's a dumpster fire.

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Capitol_Idea » Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:36 pm

Besides being grossly mismanaged, poorly staffed, alternately full of professors older than recorded human history and adjuncts, poor employment outcomes relative to its T13 "peers", high tuition cost and traditionally stingy scholarship awards, poor treatment of its evening student cohort, overadmission of transfers, having a career services department only slightly more useful than a damp rock, and location in DC's scenic asscrack, GULC is great and I loved it!

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buckiguy_sucks
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby buckiguy_sucks » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:16 pm

Capitol_Idea wrote:location in DC's scenic asscracK


The world is my oyster and the postal museum is the pearl so frankly I'm not sure what you're insinuating here can't be more convenient to it than we are

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Gray
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Gray » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:21 pm

Capitol_Idea wrote:poor treatment of its evening student cohort, overadmission of transfers, having a career services department only slightly more useful than a damp rock
ok career services is p. shitty and I have no experience with the evening program or transfers really so that's fair

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Gray
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Gray » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:25 am

Career services is probably less useful than a damp rock. At least the rock won't give you shitty advice.

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Thelaw23
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Thelaw23 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:17 am

The way I see it, yeah if I got into Columbia or NYU I could chill/coast through law school and get a decent job.

At Georgetown for same results you have to bust your ass.

But at least GULC gives you the likely possibility of getting a job if you put in the hard work. Other schools below the T-14 you could easily work yourself to death and then not even get a good job.

Also lay prestige is nice bruh.

Do people in D.C. think you're amazing when you tell them you go to Georgetown or nah? I'm sure the name has good prestige over there.

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Capitol_Idea » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:22 am

Thelaw23 wrote:Do people in D.C. think you're amazing when you tell them you go to Georgetown or nah? I'm sure the name has good prestige over there.
Not even a little bit. I don't see how it would, but if this kind of thing actually matters to you then please do not come to DC. We are just chock full of posturing status-obsessed assholes already.

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usn26
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby usn26 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:13 am

Gray wrote:
usn26 wrote:
Gray wrote:In terms of jobs, I'm happy (I did not bust my ass at all) and TBH everyone I know at or below median managed to land big law if they wanted it.


Don't listen to Gray re above. Her experiences are extremely not universal, and she's misremembering about people at or (I assume she meant) above median getting biglaw.

Otherwise I agree.

I actually did mean at or below....should have phrased that differently. But have have 3 or 4 friends with less than 3.3 who landed at decent firms in NY or home markets. I do know a couple of people above median who struck out but for one person it was a lukewarm interest in Big Law and the other it was just absurdly bad luck.


But yeah I am sure my experiences are not typical - I got really lucky in many ways - but I still don't see how it's a dumpster fire.


Ah, well I know multiple people below median who struck out.

I know GULC seems like a real law school from inside the GLS bubble, but its more meh for genpop.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:09 pm

I get that hyperbole is fun, but GULC is hardly a dumpster fire. For people with the right goals and at the right price, it's fine. That said, I probably wouldn't come here if you're BigLaw or bust. And I would certainly never advise paying anything close to sticker price.

Georgetown likes to pretend it's on a par with HYS, and it's just not. It's not Cooley either, obviously. It's kind of a weird "worst of both worlds" thing, I think. Like, Georgetown isn't quite good enough that you can just coast on the name and expect to be okay. At the same time, it's still good enough that it attracts a lot of really smart people, so you can't assume you won't get median pwned even if you've always done well in school.

I don't get people who have a huge sense of school pride or identification. I view GULC basically the same way I view my apartment complex. It's fine, but I wouldn't take a bullet for them or anything. It's pretty transactional for me.

What's the main beef with Career Services, btw? I've never really asked them for much, but when I have they've been reasonably responsive and helpful.

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Thelaw23
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Thelaw23 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:38 pm

I'm just really hoping for some $$$$$$$$

The gym looks nice, too.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:45 pm

The gym is indeed nice. I've never used it because I have an adequate gym at my apartment complex, and I didn't want to have to bother with storing soap/a towel/gym clothes at school, but if I lived within walking distance of campus I might.

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby Capitol_Idea » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:11 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:What's the main beef with Career Services, btw? I've never really asked them for much, but when I have they've been reasonably responsive and helpful.
I succeeded only by completely doing the opposite of what they recommended. Numerous GULC alum OCI interviewers told me if they had listened to CS, they wouldn't be at the firm they landed.

CS has the goal of employment for its students. That often runs alongside the interests of the student but note they don't give a shit about ideal employment. They will encourage crippling levels of caution in your bidding strategy and what markets you target and it's weird because the right answer is to go for as much as you can and cover your bases, not to artificially limit yourself to safeties and secondary markets.

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usn26
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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby usn26 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:28 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:The gym is indeed nice. I've never used it because I have an adequate gym at my apartment complex, and I didn't want to have to bother with storing soap/a towel/gym clothes at school, but if I lived within walking distance of campus I might.


They actually have soap (dear god... i hope it's soap) and towels on site. No help on the gym clothes front, though. [One firm I interviewed with actually offered gym clothes on site. That was weird.]

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Re: GULC Students Taking Questions

Postby WhiskeyAndCupcakes » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:53 pm

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Last edited by WhiskeyAndCupcakes on Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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