Xeoh85 Here - Ask Me Anything

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SplitMyPants
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Re: Xeoh85 Here - Ask Me Anything

Postby SplitMyPants » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:35 pm

I've recently decided to start at a boutique to gain the prosecution experience early on, but it was so hard to find firms that wouldn't push me extremely hard into interviewing for their lit group.

To follow up on the IPR question, how do you see this change in IP litigation and IP spending affecting the IP field as it relates to GPs, boutiques, and the availability of opportunities and types of work for new associates?

xeoh85
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Re: Xeoh85 Here - Ask Me Anything

Postby xeoh85 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:35 pm

instride91 wrote:Question for Xeoh85: As a 2L/3L, did you ever work with supplements?


Yes, but less so each year. It was not necessarily because of a change of strategy, but rather because 2L/3L courses tend to have a lot of electives that are not core courses for which there are good supplements.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Xeoh85 Here - Ask Me Anything

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:06 pm

Xeoh I'm really surprised to hear what you say about patent lit. I thought that there was basically complete agreement not to do any type of intellectual property without a science background.

xeoh85
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Re: Xeoh85 Here - Ask Me Anything

Postby xeoh85 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:51 pm

middlemarch wrote:Xeoh85, do you have any advice for clerks, either specific to your court or generally?


Oh boy, I could probably go on and on about this for days. Let me try to offer a few of the more interesting tips, and i will probably follow-up later when I have more time:

1. Check Your Ego At The Door: So you got into a top law school, got top grades, and landed that choice federal clerkship. You are feeling like pretty hot shit, right? Well sorry to burst your bubble, but compared to your life tenured, legal giant of a boss, you are little more than an ant. A very, very lucky ant. You are fresh out of law school and know jack shit, and yet out of the good graces of your Judge's heart you have been bestowed the high honor of becoming an indentured servant for a year. If you remember but one thing, let it be this:

Within chambers and while you are a clerk, your Judge is king. You are but the hand of God. Never forget it. Always address him or her as "Judge," even in private, and know that you are not one.

2. Bring Your Ego: What? Am I contradicting myself now? In a way, I am. Your Judge may be a demigod within his or her chambers, but you are of little use if you are simply a "Yes" man. You need to have the balls to challenge your Judge, to play devil's advocate, and to try to convince the Judge that you are right and he or she is wrong when you believe that to be the case. Note, however, that there is a fine line to walk. The general rule is this:

If your view on a legal issue differs from that of your Judge, then you should argue forcefully and respectfully for your position, but only until you can tell that the Judge fully understands your argument. If the Judge understands your argument and still rejects it, then it is time to fall in line and resume being the hand of God.

3. Do Not Be Discouraged By The Red Ink: Given your intelligence and generally privileged position in life, you have probably not grown accustomed to receiving a great deal of criticism. Well, be prepared for that to change. Be prepared for your drafts to get mercilessly shredded with red ink. Be prepared to go through 10, 15, 20 drafts of an opinion before publication. Be prepared to be told that you are wrong and even stupid, often and repeatedly. Look at it this way: It is a blessing, not a curse. Once you eventually join the real world, you will find that it is rare to receive this level of one-on-one, detailed feedback on your work. It will make you a MUCH better writer in the long run. When I started my clerkship, I would take 20 or so drafts to get an opinion published. At the end of my clerkship, I got an opinion out the door in 3 drafts--a chambers record that year. Hang in there. The withering criticism is actually a gift. Moreover, despite the criticism, you will probably find that your Judge thereafter has your back for life.

4. Learn To Be Your Judge's Voice: Every person has their idiosyncrasies and personal writing styles. Every person has their own political and philosophical views. As a clerk, your idiosyncrasies, writing style, political, and philosophical views are ultimately irrelevant. The Judge's name is on the opinion, not yours. As such, when it comes to anything that leaves chambers in writing, you should always strive to be your boss's voice, not your own.

5. Confidentiality! Learn It, Love It, Live It: Know that most Judges are incredibly sensitive to confidentiality and the public image of the Court. What I am talking about goes far beyond the confidential facts filed under seal in your cases, or information that might raise concerns of insider trading. Rather, I am talking about everything. Quite simply, you should think of chambers as a vault. The Judge will set policies that control what enters and what leaves, and you must strictly treat them as gospel. This includes even communications with other chambers. This even extends to little things, like never saying or doing anything that would raise an appearance of impropriety, that might cast doubt on the legitimacy of the institution, or that might simply embarrass your Judge.

As one key example, many Judges believe that clerks should not EVER, under any circumstances, suggest that they "wrote" an opinion. Judges write opinions. Clerks at most "assist their Judge in drafting" the opinion. Know your place.

6. Be Nice To Your Co-Workers: A clerkship is unlike most jobs in that it is incredibly intimate. You will get to know your Judge and your 3 or so co-clerks very well in that year, because you will all spend every work day together in chambers. From the start, try to approach it like you are joining a family, and you will be much better off for it.

7. Know The Judges In Your Courthouse: This particularly applies to the Federal Circuit and any other courthouses where all or most of the active Judges have their chambers in the same building. A funny story:

On my first day as a clerk, I was riding up the elevator of the Federal Circuit courthouse, and this young woman who was riding the elevator with me asked if it was my first day. I said yes it is. She asked what Judge I was clerking for, and I told her. I then asked in return: "What Judge are you clerking for?" Her response: "Young man, while I am in a way flattered, I'll have you know that I am Federal Circuit Judge Kimberly Moore." I just about melted and died. Don't pull a Xeoh. Google the members of your Court and learn their faces before you show up. (For those wondering how I made the mistake: https://alum.mit.edu/sites/default/file ... 33x275.jpg).

8. Have Fun: In many ways, the clerkship will be the most rewarding job you will ever have. Rarely will you have a chance to do such important and substantive work again. Don't let it stress you out too much in the moment. You will likely look back on the experience fondly one day.

I will probably have a lot more to say on this topic later, but I am currently in trial and need to get back to work! =)

- X
Last edited by xeoh85 on Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:12 pm, edited 6 times in total.

xeoh85
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Re: Xeoh85 Here - Ask Me Anything

Postby xeoh85 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:56 pm

SplitMyPants wrote:I've recently decided to start at a boutique to gain the prosecution experience early on, but it was so hard to find firms that wouldn't push me extremely hard into interviewing for their lit group.

To follow up on the IPR question, how do you see this change in IP litigation and IP spending affecting the IP field as it relates to GPs, boutiques, and the availability of opportunities and types of work for new associates?


Litigation is simply more profitable than prosecution by many, many orders of magnitude. It may cost a flat $20,000 fee for a patent application. In contrast, a full blown patent case brought to trial will easily generate $10-15 million in legal fees.

I don't foresee IPRs changing the economics of patent litigation too much, except for trolls and small litigation shops who represent trolls on contingency. The fact that IPRs are so common increases the work to be had in patent cases, and it increases the risk of an invalidity ruling -- both things that are bad for patent trolls and the firms who regularly represent them. This however is all rather on the margin in my opinion. I don't foresee much changing in the field generally due to IPRs, other than that patent litigators have even more work to do on any given matter.

- X

xeoh85
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 5:06 am

Re: Xeoh85 Here - Ask Me Anything

Postby xeoh85 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:59 pm

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:Xeoh I'm really surprised to hear what you say about patent lit. I thought that there was basically complete agreement not to do any type of intellectual property without a science background.


Common misconception. It may be fueled by the fact that some firms (e.g., Fish & Richardson???) require science backgrounds for their patent litigators because they expect them to also do prosecution work on the side (for which being a member of the patent bar, and thus having a science background, is legally required). My firm certainly does not require a tech background for patent litigation, and many of the partners whom I work for who specialize in patent litigation have no tech background.

- X

tbird
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Re: Xeoh85 Here - Ask Me Anything

Postby tbird » Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:21 am

Tag

Platinov
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Re: Xeoh85 Here - Ask Me Anything

Postby Platinov » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:45 pm

Dear Xeoh85,

Congratulations on all your magnificent achievements! You truly are the epitome of a successful legal career. Hope you ended up making partner!

1)After reading your guides religiously in preparation for 1L, my biggest question to you is how you applied the use of supplements. You wrote that "casebook is king", but in terms of actual allocation of study time what did you find yourself reading most? Additionally, if you would be so kind as to share a list of the supplements/horn books you used for the following classes:

Torts, Civil Procedures, Criminal law

2) Patent litigation had been my preferred field of practice since undergraduate, I hold an undergraduate degree from a research University in Biochemistry, and I was wondering when you took the Patent Bar Exam? Did you take it before or after Law School?

Once more than you for your profound advise and motivation work ethic!




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