PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

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ChinaCat
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PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby ChinaCat » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:01 am

What does one have to do to get a private equity, hedge fund, or consulting job as a first job out of law school?

If one does these things, what are the chances of being able to get such a job?

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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:33 am

What skill set do you honestly think you'd be able to offer a private-equity firm or hedge fund right out of law school? If you haven't worked in finance first, you have zero experience with financial modeling or investing and they're not going to train you from scratch. Think how many people with relevant backgrounds want the same job and are actually capable of doing it well. In all likelihood, the only PE/HF job you'll land right out of law school will be in a compliance role.

Consulting's the only one of the three that's achievable. It's probably school dependent, at least for the top ones, but if you really want it and prep for the interview sincerely it's not outrageous.

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jingosaur
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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby jingosaur » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:37 am

First off, you're probably in the wrong forum.

PE is literally impossible unless you had investment banking or PE experience prior to law school. HFs are kind of similar but are willing to take people with math backgrounds. BCG and McKinsey are the only big consulting firms that take people out of law school and less than 10% of YHS students that interview with them get an offer.

To get any of this you need to go to a top 6 school, but preferably a top 3, and have an MBA caliber resume going in. And even then it's pretty tough. Your best way to get into the space through law school is to go to a law firm that has a PE or HF practice group. These jobs are pretty attainable at T14s.

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BizBro
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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby BizBro » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:44 am

jingosaur wrote:First off, you're probably in the wrong forum.

PE is literally impossible unless you had investment banking or PE experience prior to law school. HFs are kind of similar but are willing to take people with math backgrounds. BCG and McKinsey are the only big consulting firms that take people out of law school and less than 10% of YHS students that interview with them get an offer.

To get any of this you need to go to a top 6 school, but preferably a top 3, and have an MBA caliber resume going in. And even then it's pretty tough. Your best way to get into the space through law school is to go to a law firm that has a PE or HF practice group. These jobs are pretty attainable at T14s.


What he said.
I'm at a CCN and 1-2 people go into banking/consulting each year (who are straight JD and not JD/MBA. I assume there are a few more people from the latter category).
While it's true that most of these people have solid resumes and often have biz backgrounds, it seems to me that consulting might take non-biz people. You''ve got to really kill the case studies and interviews though, which is very small odds as mentioned above.

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xylocarp
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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby xylocarp » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:17 pm

0Ls are not allowed to post in the legal employment forum, per TLS rules. I've moved this to the appropriate forum. Thanks!

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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby Ericwa » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:20 pm

Do law firms value big 4 accounting experience? Assume everything else is equal, good grades from top schools and etc. will big 4 experience give you a leg up for biglaw corporate practice recruiting?

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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby Instinctive » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:39 pm

jingosaur wrote:First off, you're probably in the wrong forum.

PE is literally impossible unless you had investment banking or PE experience prior to law school. HFs are kind of similar but are willing to take people with math backgrounds. BCG and McKinsey are the only big consulting firms that take people out of law school and less than 10% of YHS students that interview with them get an offer.

To get any of this you need to go to a top 6 school, but preferably a top 3, and have an MBA caliber resume going in. And even then it's pretty tough. Your best way to get into the space through law school is to go to a law firm that has a PE or HF practice group. These jobs are pretty attainable at T14s.


Where's that number coming from? Just wondering, as someone at HYS who's going the consulting route. We seem to have had a lot of success placing people at McKinsey over the last few years. Not a high absolute figure, but as a percentage of people who try for it (of which there are very few. Seems we have 3-5 each year that try, and 2-4 that go - and that's because some people take other offers instead).

Based on my experience, if you're willing to work your ass off for case interviews and be ready for it, HYS Law is definitely a path to McKinsey (can't speak to BCG). McKinsey recently had a recruiting event in NYC and they seem interested in laterals with an HYSCCN level resume after 2-4 years in BigLaw if that's the path of least resistance for someone.

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jingosaur
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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby jingosaur » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:08 pm

Instinctive wrote:
jingosaur wrote:First off, you're probably in the wrong forum.

PE is literally impossible unless you had investment banking or PE experience prior to law school. HFs are kind of similar but are willing to take people with math backgrounds. BCG and McKinsey are the only big consulting firms that take people out of law school and less than 10% of YHS students that interview with them get an offer.

To get any of this you need to go to a top 6 school, but preferably a top 3, and have an MBA caliber resume going in. And even then it's pretty tough. Your best way to get into the space through law school is to go to a law firm that has a PE or HF practice group. These jobs are pretty attainable at T14s.


Where's that number coming from? Just wondering, as someone at HYS who's going the consulting route. We seem to have had a lot of success placing people at McKinsey over the last few years. Not a high absolute figure, but as a percentage of people who try for it (of which there are very few. Seems we have 3-5 each year that try, and 2-4 that go - and that's because some people take other offers instead).

Based on my experience, if you're willing to work your ass off for case interviews and be ready for it, HYS Law is definitely a path to McKinsey (can't speak to BCG). McKinsey recently had a recruiting event in NYC and they seem interested in laterals with an HYSCCN level resume after 2-4 years in BigLaw if that's the path of least resistance for someone.


Those are approximations for 2L summer internships at those consulting firms at H. McKinsey is a little bit nicer to 3Ls. And yeah, McKinsey and BCG do take a lot of biglaw lawyers with 2-4 years of experience.

Instinctive
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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby Instinctive » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:42 pm

jingosaur wrote:
Instinctive wrote:
jingosaur wrote:First off, you're probably in the wrong forum.

PE is literally impossible unless you had investment banking or PE experience prior to law school. HFs are kind of similar but are willing to take people with math backgrounds. BCG and McKinsey are the only big consulting firms that take people out of law school and less than 10% of YHS students that interview with them get an offer.

To get any of this you need to go to a top 6 school, but preferably a top 3, and have an MBA caliber resume going in. And even then it's pretty tough. Your best way to get into the space through law school is to go to a law firm that has a PE or HF practice group. These jobs are pretty attainable at T14s.


Where's that number coming from? Just wondering, as someone at HYS who's going the consulting route. We seem to have had a lot of success placing people at McKinsey over the last few years. Not a high absolute figure, but as a percentage of people who try for it (of which there are very few. Seems we have 3-5 each year that try, and 2-4 that go - and that's because some people take other offers instead).

Based on my experience, if you're willing to work your ass off for case interviews and be ready for it, HYS Law is definitely a path to McKinsey (can't speak to BCG). McKinsey recently had a recruiting event in NYC and they seem interested in laterals with an HYSCCN level resume after 2-4 years in BigLaw if that's the path of least resistance for someone.


Those are approximations for 2L summer internships at those consulting firms at H. McKinsey is a little bit nicer to 3Ls. And yeah, McKinsey and BCG do take a lot of biglaw lawyers with 2-4 years of experience.


Ahh, makes more sense. Yeah, I think that 10% figure would be inaccurate for S. In large part because almost nobody tries for it, and most of those that do are JD/MBAs rather than straight JDs.

I think this summer has only 3 people from S interning, 1 JD and 2 JD/MBAs. I'd be fairly surprised if all 3 don't get offers, based on the past few years of people I've talked to. I'd also be surprised if they all accepted though, so take that fwiw.

I imagine a much larger number of people from H do an internship in consulting and that it has an impact on the intern-->offer conversion. Trying to go consulting is a VERY different path at S. The initial number of people interested is super low, and then that gets further reduced by people who take the "path of least resistance" and just go BigLaw.

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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:36 pm

Instinctive wrote:
jingosaur wrote:
Instinctive wrote:
jingosaur wrote:First off, you're probably in the wrong forum.

PE is literally impossible unless you had investment banking or PE experience prior to law school. HFs are kind of similar but are willing to take people with math backgrounds. BCG and McKinsey are the only big consulting firms that take people out of law school and less than 10% of YHS students that interview with them get an offer.

To get any of this you need to go to a top 6 school, but preferably a top 3, and have an MBA caliber resume going in. And even then it's pretty tough. Your best way to get into the space through law school is to go to a law firm that has a PE or HF practice group. These jobs are pretty attainable at T14s.


Where's that number coming from? Just wondering, as someone at HYS who's going the consulting route. We seem to have had a lot of success placing people at McKinsey over the last few years. Not a high absolute figure, but as a percentage of people who try for it (of which there are very few. Seems we have 3-5 each year that try, and 2-4 that go - and that's because some people take other offers instead).

Based on my experience, if you're willing to work your ass off for case interviews and be ready for it, HYS Law is definitely a path to McKinsey (can't speak to BCG). McKinsey recently had a recruiting event in NYC and they seem interested in laterals with an HYSCCN level resume after 2-4 years in BigLaw if that's the path of least resistance for someone.


Those are approximations for 2L summer internships at those consulting firms at H. McKinsey is a little bit nicer to 3Ls. And yeah, McKinsey and BCG do take a lot of biglaw lawyers with 2-4 years of experience.


Ahh, makes more sense. Yeah, I think that 10% figure would be inaccurate for S. In large part because almost nobody tries for it, and most of those that do are JD/MBAs rather than straight JDs.

I think this summer has only 3 people from S interning, 1 JD and 2 JD/MBAs. I'd be fairly surprised if all 3 don't get offers, based on the past few years of people I've talked to. I'd also be surprised if they all accepted though, so take that fwiw.

I imagine a much larger number of people from H do an internship in consulting and that it has an impact on the intern-->offer conversion. Trying to go consulting is a VERY different path at S. The initial number of people interested is super low, and then that gets further reduced by people who take the "path of least resistance" and just go BigLaw.


McKinsey takes a bunch of people from CLS and HLS each year. Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse, and a few other bb banks take a couple 3Ls directly onto the deal side. Obviously it's easier if you're Jd/MBA.

All of this misses the point. If you want these jobs, start out of college - or at least business school. Don't waste another 3-4 years and spend several hundred thousand dollars chasing the same position.

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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby Instinctive » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:57 pm

jbagelboy wrote:McKinsey takes a bunch of people from CLS and HLS each year. Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse, and a few other bb banks take a couple 3Ls directly onto the deal side. Obviously it's easier if you're Jd/MBA.

All of this misses the point. If you want these jobs, start out of college - or at least business school. Don't waste another 3-4 years and spend several hundred thousand dollars chasing the same position.


I mostly agree.

BUT: some people don't have that option. it is way easier to get into HLS than it is to get into an M7 MBA position, IMO.

For instance it is nearly impossible to pull an MBB offer from my undergrad. Maybe 1-2 people a year, and I went to a flagship state institution, not a small school. For some people, the path of least resistance from their UG to that upper tier of jobs like MBB/I-Banking is a top law school.

So yeah, ideally you go to college at a target school or you have the knowledge of what you need to do during college to get into that world, but not everyone comes from that kind of pedigree. I think TLS as a whole should be a bit more aware of that. There's a middle ground between the insanity-laden, "A law degree can get you anywhere!" and the overly pessimistic "Only go to law school if you want to be a lawyer."

The latter is solid advice for most people most of the time. But it's not an absolute.

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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby lawman84 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:36 pm

What are the advantages of those sorts of jobs vs. a biglaw job after law school?

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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby KaNa1986 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:29 pm

Instinctive wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:McKinsey takes a bunch of people from CLS and HLS each year. Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse, and a few other bb banks take a couple 3Ls directly onto the deal side. Obviously it's easier if you're Jd/MBA.

All of this misses the point. If you want these jobs, start out of college - or at least business school. Don't waste another 3-4 years and spend several hundred thousand dollars chasing the same position.


I mostly agree.

BUT: some people don't have that option. it is way easier to get into HLS than it is to get into an M7 MBA position, IMO.

For instance it is nearly impossible to pull an MBB offer from my undergrad. Maybe 1-2 people a year, and I went to a flagship state institution, not a small school. For some people, the path of least resistance from their UG to that upper tier of jobs like MBB/I-Banking is a top law school.

So yeah, ideally you go to college at a target school or you have the knowledge of what you need to do during college to get into that world, but not everyone comes from that kind of pedigree. I think TLS as a whole should be a bit more aware of that. There's a middle ground between the insanity-laden, "A law degree can get you anywhere!" and the overly pessimistic "Only go to law school if you want to be a lawyer."

The latter is solid advice for most people most of the time. But it's not an absolute.


After working for a couple of years after undergrad, it's easier to get into HBS (let alone the rest of the M7 excluding Stanford) compared to HLS. Typically, people who get MBB associate at HLS are the people who could have gotten MBB analyst straight after college.

Instinctive
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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby Instinctive » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:12 pm

KaNa1986 wrote:
Instinctive wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:McKinsey takes a bunch of people from CLS and HLS each year. Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse, and a few other bb banks take a couple 3Ls directly onto the deal side. Obviously it's easier if you're Jd/MBA.

All of this misses the point. If you want these jobs, start out of college - or at least business school. Don't waste another 3-4 years and spend several hundred thousand dollars chasing the same position.


I mostly agree.

BUT: some people don't have that option. it is way easier to get into HLS than it is to get into an M7 MBA position, IMO.

For instance it is nearly impossible to pull an MBB offer from my undergrad. Maybe 1-2 people a year, and I went to a flagship state institution, not a small school. For some people, the path of least resistance from their UG to that upper tier of jobs like MBB/I-Banking is a top law school.

So yeah, ideally you go to college at a target school or you have the knowledge of what you need to do during college to get into that world, but not everyone comes from that kind of pedigree. I think TLS as a whole should be a bit more aware of that. There's a middle ground between the insanity-laden, "A law degree can get you anywhere!" and the overly pessimistic "Only go to law school if you want to be a lawyer."

The latter is solid advice for most people most of the time. But it's not an absolute.


After working for a couple of years after undergrad, it's easier to get into HBS (let alone the rest of the M7 excluding Stanford) compared to HLS. Typically, people who get MBB associate at HLS are the people who could have gotten MBB analyst straight after college.


You really think so? HLS is just a great GPA and a great LSAT. That seems easier than great GPA, GMAT, and softs + interview.

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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:36 am

Instinctive wrote:
jingosaur wrote:
Instinctive wrote:
jingosaur wrote:First off, you're probably in the wrong forum.

PE is literally impossible unless you had investment banking or PE experience prior to law school. HFs are kind of similar but are willing to take people with math backgrounds. BCG and McKinsey are the only big consulting firms that take people out of law school and less than 10% of YHS students that interview with them get an offer.

To get any of this you need to go to a top 6 school, but preferably a top 3, and have an MBA caliber resume going in. And even then it's pretty tough. Your best way to get into the space through law school is to go to a law firm that has a PE or HF practice group. These jobs are pretty attainable at T14s.


Where's that number coming from? Just wondering, as someone at HYS who's going the consulting route. We seem to have had a lot of success placing people at McKinsey over the last few years. Not a high absolute figure, but as a percentage of people who try for it (of which there are very few. Seems we have 3-5 each year that try, and 2-4 that go - and that's because some people take other offers instead).

Based on my experience, if you're willing to work your ass off for case interviews and be ready for it, HYS Law is definitely a path to McKinsey (can't speak to BCG). McKinsey recently had a recruiting event in NYC and they seem interested in laterals with an HYSCCN level resume after 2-4 years in BigLaw if that's the path of least resistance for someone.


Those are approximations for 2L summer internships at those consulting firms at H. McKinsey is a little bit nicer to 3Ls. And yeah, McKinsey and BCG do take a lot of biglaw lawyers with 2-4 years of experience.


Ahh, makes more sense. Yeah, I think that 10% figure would be inaccurate for S. In large part because almost nobody tries for it, and most of those that do are JD/MBAs rather than straight JDs.

I think this summer has only 3 people from S interning, 1 JD and 2 JD/MBAs. I'd be fairly surprised if all 3 don't get offers, based on the past few years of people I've talked to. I'd also be surprised if they all accepted though, so take that fwiw.

I imagine a much larger number of people from H do an internship in consulting and that it has an impact on the intern-->offer conversion. Trying to go consulting is a VERY different path at S. The initial number of people interested is super low, and then that gets further reduced by people who take the "path of least resistance" and just go BigLaw.


I've heard its harder to get MBB from S because MBB doesnt recruit on campus at S whereas they do OCI at H, but

also yeah theres EIP data at HLS since Mckinsey and BCG do OCI so you can see how many people got callbacks, callbacks accepted, offers etc.

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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby FluidMosaic » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:26 am

Instinctive wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:McKinsey takes a bunch of people from CLS and HLS each year. Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse, and a few other bb banks take a couple 3Ls directly onto the deal side. Obviously it's easier if you're Jd/MBA.

All of this misses the point. If you want these jobs, start out of college - or at least business school. Don't waste another 3-4 years and spend several hundred thousand dollars chasing the same position.


I mostly agree.

BUT: some people don't have that option. it is way easier to get into HLS than it is to get into an M7 MBA position, IMO.

For instance it is nearly impossible to pull an MBB offer from my undergrad. Maybe 1-2 people a year, and I went to a flagship state institution, not a small school. For some people, the path of least resistance from their UG to that upper tier of jobs like MBB/I-Banking is a top law school.

So yeah, ideally you go to college at a target school or you have the knowledge of what you need to do during college to get into that world, but not everyone comes from that kind of pedigree. I think TLS as a whole should be a bit more aware of that. There's a middle ground between the insanity-laden, "A law degree can get you anywhere!" and the overly pessimistic "Only go to law school if you want to be a lawyer."

The latter is solid advice for most people most of the time. But it's not an absolute.


I agree with this 100%. I don't go to a great law school(ND/USC/WUSTL/GW/USC/Emory) caliber and I've gotten business offers at places I never would have been competitive at from undergrad as a K-JD. This summer I'm working in a position with 3 MBAs in my summer class(1 M7, 2 T20), will most likely get a return offer, and I have a 2.4(class of 2014).

TLS asks why don't you go to b-school instead, they don't usually take into the calculus, how is that person going to get the requisite work experience to go to b-school? Recruiters that I have talked to basically see the law school as an extension of the business school if you pitch it right. While it might not make sense for alot of people to go, there is a few(definitely splitters) where law school, with the intention of working in business might be a better option.

There still is a lay prestige with law school, and if you can pitch the right skills recruiters still see you as a worth while candidate. I've thought a few times about dropping out, but finishing I think will help my professional career in the future.

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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby Instinctive » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:39 am

Mack.Hambleton wrote:I've heard its harder to get MBB from S because MBB doesnt recruit on campus at S whereas they do OCI at H, but

also yeah theres EIP data at HLS since Mckinsey and BCG do OCI so you can see how many people got callbacks, callbacks accepted, offers etc.


I don't think its any "harder", per se. McKinsey targets the GSB pretty hard, and they've branched out to SLS in the past few years. They don't show for OCI, which is why way less people A) hear about it as an option and B) actually go for it.

But they do hold both a spring and fall recruiting-pitch-lunch-presentation thing, and about 10 people show up. Some repeats (like me), and spread across all 3 years.

I would say it is much rarer at S, rather than harder. If you knew going in that that's what you wanted to do, and you went and made contacts and talked to the people above you who have interned and/or accepted offers, you can forge that path pretty easily. The barrier to entry for MBB at S is knowing they exist and that you can do it, not the actual doing.

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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby AreJay711 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:44 am

FluidMosaic wrote:

TLS asks why don't you go to b-school instead, they don't usually take into the calculus, how is that person going to get the requisite work experience to go to b-school?


Most people who can get accepted into a top 14 can get a job out of undergrad.

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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby FluidMosaic » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:46 am

AreJay711 wrote:
FluidMosaic wrote:

TLS asks why don't you go to b-school instead, they don't usually take into the calculus, how is that person going to get the requisite work experience to go to b-school?


Most people who can get accepted into a top 14 can get a job out of undergrad.


But will a big 4 accounting job set you up well for an M7 business school?

Much less the 3.8 English major from Southern Illinois University. Whats setting them up to get their MBA?

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AreJay711
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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby AreJay711 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:00 am

FluidMosaic wrote:Much less the 3.8 English major from Southern Illinois University. Whats setting them up to get their MBA?


Some kind of non-profit/office drone job would be there. As far as good work experience, Officer Candidate School is open to English majors, I'm pretty sure.

Instinctive
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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby Instinctive » Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:11 am

AreJay711 wrote:
FluidMosaic wrote:Much less the 3.8 English major from Southern Illinois University. Whats setting them up to get their MBA?


Some kind of non-profit/office drone job would be there. As far as good work experience, Officer Candidate School is open to English majors, I'm pretty sure.


See but then you're in Officer Candidate School.

Again, it's gonna differ across every single person. But for some, a top MBA just isn't a realistic possibility and a top law school is. Sometimes you take what you can get, to get where you want.

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BizBro
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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby BizBro » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:52 pm

There's also the fact that you can get some crazy good $$$ thrown your way for law school, whereas, there's not so much merit-aide for biz school from my understanding. One could potentially pick a free t14 rather than pay 100k for M7 and gun really hard for a non-legal outcome.

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Re: PE/HF/Consulting Straight Out Of Law School

Postby jasonredranger » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:36 pm

Instinctive wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:McKinsey takes a bunch of people from CLS and HLS each year. Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse, and a few other bb banks take a couple 3Ls directly onto the deal side. Obviously it's easier if you're Jd/MBA.

All of this misses the point. If you want these jobs, start out of college - or at least business school. Don't waste another 3-4 years and spend several hundred thousand dollars chasing the same position.


I mostly agree.

BUT: some people don't have that option. it is way easier to get into HLS than it is to get into an M7 MBA position, IMO.

For instance it is nearly impossible to pull an MBB offer from my undergrad. Maybe 1-2 people a year, and I went to a flagship state institution, not a small school. For some people, the path of least resistance from their UG to that upper tier of jobs like MBB/I-Banking is a top law school.

So yeah, ideally you go to college at a target school or you have the knowledge of what you need to do during college to get into that world, but not everyone comes from that kind of pedigree. I think TLS as a whole should be a bit more aware of that. There's a middle ground between the insanity-laden, "A law degree can get you anywhere!" and the overly pessimistic "Only go to law school if you want to be a lawyer."

The latter is solid advice for most people most of the time. But it's not an absolute.


This is exactly why I went to law school, to be honest. My undergrad wasn't good enough to give me the level of success I want. It seems like TLS operates under the delusion that going to a top law school still isn't an immediate and extremely significant improvement for 99% of people's futures.

Do I want to be a lawyer? I guess. Could I have gotten into finance or consulting out of college? No. Do I think that going to a T14 and working biglaw will place me in a certain "bracket" for life? Yes. That's a good enough reason to go to law school for me.




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