Question for the antitrust lawyers-- how much quantitative work is there?

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flomotion
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Question for the antitrust lawyers-- how much quantitative work is there?

Postby flomotion » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:38 pm

I work at an econ consulting company, so I've been on several antitrust cases on the econ side. I get some sense of what the attorneys are doing (filing motions, preparing questions for our experts, etc.), but I don't really have a good sense of how much quantitative work they do. Sometimes the attorneys will shoot us market share figures to confirm (implying an associate there has already done some analysis), but other times, they ask us to do really simple calculations.

I really enjoy working with data, and would love to continue to work in antitrust after law school-- at least for a period of time. I know I'll no longer be doing anything complex using Stata/SAS, but are there any law firms that would encourage attorneys to conduct some preliminary analyses (e.g., model agreements or find AWPs)? Would love to hear from any antitrust attorneys out there about how much quantitative analysis I can expect.

Thanks for your help!

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rpupkin
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Re: Question for the antitrust lawyers-- how much quantitative work is there?

Postby rpupkin » Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:05 pm

flomotion wrote:I work at an econ consulting company, so I've been on several antitrust cases on the econ side. I get some sense of what the attorneys are doing (filing motions, preparing questions for our experts, etc.), but I don't really have a good sense of how much quantitative work they do. Sometimes the attorneys will shoot us market share figures to confirm (implying an associate there has already done some analysis), but other times, they ask us to do really simple calculations.

I really enjoy working with data, and would love to continue to work in antitrust after law school-- at least for a period of time. I know I'll no longer be doing anything complex using Stata/SAS, but are there any law firms that would encourage attorneys to conduct some preliminary analyses (e.g., model agreements or find AWPs)? Would love to hear from any antitrust attorneys out there about how much quantitative analysis I can expect.

Thanks for your help!

I am not an antitrust specialist but I have worked on antitrust cases. In general, clients don't want to pay an associate $400-$500/hr to do quantitative work that could be done by someone else for less. (My guess is that those market share figures you're seeing are usually coming from the client--i.e., they're not the product of analysis done by an attorney at the law firm.) That said, your background definitely helps. You'll understand the data better. You'll also be in a good position to talk with and manage experts.

Please keep in mind that this is just a single attorney's take. I hope some antitrust specialists will weigh in with their thoughts.

flomotion
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Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:20 pm

Re: Question for the antitrust lawyers-- how much quantitative work is there?

Postby flomotion » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:18 pm

rpupkin wrote:
flomotion wrote:I work at an econ consulting company, so I've been on several antitrust cases on the econ side. I get some sense of what the attorneys are doing (filing motions, preparing questions for our experts, etc.), but I don't really have a good sense of how much quantitative work they do. Sometimes the attorneys will shoot us market share figures to confirm (implying an associate there has already done some analysis), but other times, they ask us to do really simple calculations.

I really enjoy working with data, and would love to continue to work in antitrust after law school-- at least for a period of time. I know I'll no longer be doing anything complex using Stata/SAS, but are there any law firms that would encourage attorneys to conduct some preliminary analyses (e.g., model agreements or find AWPs)? Would love to hear from any antitrust attorneys out there about how much quantitative analysis I can expect.

Thanks for your help!

I am not an antitrust specialist but I have worked on antitrust cases. In general, clients don't want to pay an associate $400-$500/hr to do quantitative work that could be done by someone else for less. (My guess is that those market share figures you're seeing are usually coming from the client--i.e., they're not the product of analysis done by an attorney at the law firm.) That said, your background definitely helps. You'll understand the data better. You'll also be in a good position to talk with and manage experts.

Please keep in mind that this is just a single attorney's take. I hope some antitrust specialists will weigh in with their thoughts.



Thanks, this is helpful. It sounds like most of the modeling (ex ante agreement valuations etc) are either done by the finance department prior to the deal finalizing, or the consulting firms after the DOJ/FTC looks into it. It would be nice to work with it a bit though-- I wonder if partners would be against it if I offered to help with any of the data work.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Question for the antitrust lawyers-- how much quantitative work is there?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:24 pm

flomotion wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
flomotion wrote:I work at an econ consulting company, so I've been on several antitrust cases on the econ side. I get some sense of what the attorneys are doing (filing motions, preparing questions for our experts, etc.), but I don't really have a good sense of how much quantitative work they do. Sometimes the attorneys will shoot us market share figures to confirm (implying an associate there has already done some analysis), but other times, they ask us to do really simple calculations.

I really enjoy working with data, and would love to continue to work in antitrust after law school-- at least for a period of time. I know I'll no longer be doing anything complex using Stata/SAS, but are there any law firms that would encourage attorneys to conduct some preliminary analyses (e.g., model agreements or find AWPs)? Would love to hear from any antitrust attorneys out there about how much quantitative analysis I can expect.

Thanks for your help!

I am not an antitrust specialist but I have worked on antitrust cases. In general, clients don't want to pay an associate $400-$500/hr to do quantitative work that could be done by someone else for less. (My guess is that those market share figures you're seeing are usually coming from the client--i.e., they're not the product of analysis done by an attorney at the law firm.) That said, your background definitely helps. You'll understand the data better. You'll also be in a good position to talk with and manage experts.

Please keep in mind that this is just a single attorney's take. I hope some antitrust specialists will weigh in with their thoughts.



Thanks, this is helpful. It sounds like most of the modeling (ex ante agreement valuations etc) are either done by the finance department prior to the deal finalizing, or the consulting firms after the DOJ/FTC looks into it. It would be nice to work with it a bit though-- I wonder if partners would be against it if I offered to help with any of the data work.


Well yes they'd probably be against it because they hire outside consulting and analytics services to perform those functions and will pay them (handsomely) regardless of what you play around with. Same goes for securities litigators working with complex products or derivatives lawyers on a structured transaction. They like it if you have a background that helps you understand the client's needs but that's not what you're being paid for; its the nature of the business model.

At most, you'll be able to use some excel background (like vlooksups and conditionals) to help organize data and fact research. I have seen the occasional former attorney lateral out to a financial analytics boutique specializing in litigation support

It sounds like law isn't for you if what you value most is the data/analysis/quant. Sorry. This is coming from a STEM major who worked in consulting and then went to law school

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AreJay711
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Re: Question for the antitrust lawyers-- how much quantitative work is there?

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:48 pm

Like the other posters said, basically none.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Question for the antitrust lawyers-- how much quantitative work is there?

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:07 pm

Creating expert evidence, or support for one's position, from an authoritative or credible expert may be a reason to have an outside source perform basic calculations.

flomotion
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Re: Question for the antitrust lawyers-- how much quantitative work is there?

Postby flomotion » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:33 pm

Interesting; thanks for your responses.

I wonder if that's also the case with the full-time attorneys at the DOJ antitrust division (obviously with the understanding that those positions are extremely competitive and most people don't end up there until a few years out of school). Can anyone speak to whether the full-time attorneys in this division do much quant work? I'm guessing they don't, but thought I'd ask anyway.

JVK
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Re: Question for the antitrust lawyers-- how much quantitative work is there?

Postby JVK » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:41 pm

flomotion wrote:Interesting; thanks for your responses.

I wonder if that's also the case with the full-time attorneys at the DOJ antitrust division (obviously with the understanding that those positions are extremely competitive and most people don't end up there until a few years out of school). Can anyone speak to whether the full-time attorneys in this division do much quant work? I'm guessing they don't, but thought I'd ask anyway.


As someone who interned there my 1L summer - none. The lawyers are not the ones doing the econometric analysis.




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