Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

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Blueberrypie
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Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby Blueberrypie » Wed May 20, 2015 8:12 pm

I know I ask a lot of questions. In part, because I'm like a kid ( I ask everything that comes to mind) and I'm at my second job where down time is great!!

I want to know all about your experience.

I'm going to a good law school, but I never been one for rankings and the like. I go where I fit in and where I want to practice, but law schools, students, firms and the world seem to be obsessed with rankings. I always read on this site people that go to relatively great institutions who just say the others are a waste of time and moeny, but I don't think so, at least not for everybody. I think a lot of it has to do with who you are as a person. So I want to hear from those who are outside of the T20 range.

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POTUSorSCOTUS
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby POTUSorSCOTUS » Wed May 20, 2015 8:14 pm

asking dumb people whether they are happy is futile

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby JohannDeMann » Wed May 20, 2015 8:15 pm

dear god you're the one who's going to pay out of pocket for a non T20 education. Seriously man PAYE and PSLF may be your best friend in 3 years. I don't know how to make it any clearer than you are being a fucking moron.

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PhilippeStandingOnIt
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby PhilippeStandingOnIt » Wed May 20, 2015 8:30 pm

I'm starting next year outside T-20 on a full scholarship. I figure it'll be either the best decision I ever made, or an at least salvageable mistake. I wouldn't pay a dime of tuition to go there, however.

Also, I intend to bail if not above median after 1L. No need to dig the hole any deeper than necessary.

Blueberrypie
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby Blueberrypie » Wed May 20, 2015 8:37 pm

POTUSorSCOTUS wrote:asking dumb people whether they are happy is futile



woah woah woah...hostility is not needed here. It serves no purpose and it shows a lack of character and respect.

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tortsandtiaras
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby tortsandtiaras » Wed May 20, 2015 8:45 pm

I agree. Its unnecessary to phrase your response in such a rude and disrespectful manner.

With that being said, I am attending a school slightly out of the top 20 with a nice scholarship. I am pretty happy about my decision, but obviously I cannot comment further until after 1L.

That being said, a lot of the folks here on TLS have this superiority complex. If you don't attend a top 14 school, then you basically don't deserve to go to law school. I agree with a lot of the people on here that certain schools should not be attended no matter what. However, there is a RESPECTFUL way to relay this information.

Blueberrypie
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby Blueberrypie » Wed May 20, 2015 8:50 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:dear god you're the one who's going to pay out of pocket for a non T20 education. Seriously man PAYE and PSLF may be your best friend in 3 years. I don't know how to make it any clearer than you are being a fucking moron.


I don't know what those acronyms are. I will look them up. I'm not going to pay out of pocket. I happily don't need to. I just have money and can afford to. Also, please be respectful. There is no need to use foul language or call me a moron. I didn't do anything to warrant that behavior. Its okay and much easier to make and keep it all smiles.

Blueberrypie
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby Blueberrypie » Wed May 20, 2015 8:55 pm

tortsandtiaras wrote:I agree. Its unnecessary to phrase your response in such a rude and disrespectful manner.

With that being said, I am attending a school slightly out of the top 20 with a nice scholarship. I am pretty happy about my decision, but obviously I cannot comment further until after 1L.

That being said, a lot of the folks here on TLS have this superiority complex. If you don't attend a top 14 school, then you basically don't deserve to go to law school. I agree with a lot of the people on here that certain schools should not be attended no matter what. However, there is a RESPECTFUL way to relay this information.


With how rude some people are here, you would think there was someone lacking at home to teach them how to respect others and be respectful to others.

I hope all these people who are uppity have the money and accomplishments to back it up, but reality makes it more likely that they are in a sucky situation and focus their anger and frustration at others.

I just wanted this to be a thread where people spoke about how they felt attending a school outside of T20, if that doesn't apply to them and they have nothing constructive to say, what is the point?

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NoLieAbility
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby NoLieAbility » Wed May 20, 2015 8:56 pm

tortsandtiaras wrote:If you don't attend a top 14 school, then you basically don't deserve to go to law school.


Should not != does not deserve to.

The prevailing wisdom is T3 sticker (sometimes), T13 with substantial $, Georgetown if your only alternative is becoming a farmer in Sudan, and T1 with full ride. Now, that's some pretty risk-averse stuff right there, but consider the source. TLS users are usually the applicants who did well on the LSAT, the students who were once those applicants, or the attorneys who were once those students. You're talking to a group of people who spent roughly six months on a test so that they could go to law school without feeling like they were crushing their junk with a toilet seat.

And OP, your post implies significant confirmation bias on your part. You're not going to get the responses you want, but I'd wager you'll pluck those which support your position out and consider them reassuring evidence of your sound reasoning. So... yeah, there are circumstances under which attending any* law school is defensible.

* - I might still go farm in Sudan.

nerd1
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby nerd1 » Wed May 20, 2015 8:59 pm

POTUSorSCOTUS wrote:asking dumb people whether they are happy is futile


I wonder how you will cope with working for partners who went to TT or TTT. There are several of them at major firms.

Blueberrypie
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby Blueberrypie » Wed May 20, 2015 9:07 pm

NoLieAbility wrote:
tortsandtiaras wrote:If you don't attend a top 14 school, then you basically don't deserve to go to law school.


Should not != does not deserve to.

The prevailing wisdom is T3 sticker (sometimes), T13 with substantial $, Georgetown if your only alternative is becoming a farmer in Sudan, and T1 with full ride. Now, that's some pretty risk-averse stuff right there, but consider the source. TLS users are usually the applicants who did well on the LSAT, the students who were once those applicants, or the attorneys who were once those students. You're talking to a group of people who spent roughly six months on a test so that they could go to law school without feeling like they were crushing their junk with a toilet seat.

And OP, your post implies significant confirmation bias on your part. You're not going to get the responses you want, but I'd wager you'll pluck those which support your position out and consider them reassuring evidence of your sound reasoning. So... yeah, there are circumstances under which attending any* law school is defensible.

* - I might still go farm in Sudan.


No, I would much prefer you'd ask me. I never once lashed out or rejected someone's opinion on her, because I didn't agree. IT isn't about hearing what I want. IT is about not being disrespected. IT is about people knowing how to have a discussion without insulting someone, if you can't do that, well something is lacking.

I wanted opinions from people who attended schools under T20s. I received insults and useless comments, for the most part.

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tortsandtiaras
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby tortsandtiaras » Wed May 20, 2015 9:08 pm

NoLieAbility wrote:
tortsandtiaras wrote:If you don't attend a top 14 school, then you basically don't deserve to go to law school.


Should not != does not deserve to.

The prevailing wisdom is T3 sticker (sometimes), T13 with substantial $, Georgetown if your only alternative is becoming a farmer in Sudan, and T1 with full ride. Now, that's some pretty risk-averse stuff right there, but consider the source. TLS users are usually the applicants who did well on the LSAT, the students who were once those applicants, or the attorneys who were once those students. You're talking to a group of people who spent roughly six months on a test so that they could go to law school without feeling like they were crushing their junk with a toilet seat.

And OP, your post implies significant confirmation bias on your part. You're not going to get the responses you want, but I'd wager you'll pluck those which support your position out and consider them reassuring evidence of your sound reasoning. So... yeah, there are circumstances under which attending any* law school is defensible.

* - I might still go farm in Sudan.


I don't disagree with you there; I actually completely agree with that. I think my main frustration was on the way things were being said rather than what was being said. I completely understand those who are genuinely trying to help others out and warn them about poor law school choices. However, there are users on here who abuse that and will come across as simply saying things to only justify themselves rather than actually being helpful. But I am getting off topic on this (my apologies).

I hope the OP gets some useful advice on this thread. OP, I think one is confident in his decision outside of the top 20 if he or she has significant scholarship/financial support. Otherwise, the stress & anxiety of having to do well 1L is probably at an all time high right now...

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haus
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby haus » Wed May 20, 2015 11:02 pm

OP,

It is unlikely that you are going to get many responses from your target audience. But I will bite, I am a student at a school well outside the top 20. All told I am happy with my choice.

Although, I would not necessarily recommend my course of action for everyone, for that matter, it may well be that most would be better of not doing what I am doing. I am not looking for a complete career change, instead I am hoping to use the JD to build upon my current career path (InfoSec in a highly regulated industry, which creates a some interesting JD preferred opportunities).

The school I have selected has offered me a large scholarship, which greatly reduces my cost, and being a part-time program it allows me to continue my current career (still earning and income, supporting my family, funding my retirement, and getting benefits, including some education reimbursement to offset some of my remaining expenses).

I have no expectation of working for a traditional law firm. The work I want to do is a bit unusual, and should it not work out as I hope, I am likely to be able to continue on with my current career path.

While it is fairly common on this site for people considering lower ranked schools to get fairly abrupt responses. I can understand how it this can be off-putting, but it is not without its merits. Anyone considering the investment in both time and money for a JD should take the time to consider how likely it is that their investment will payoff. In recent years, the data available to review has become much better (thanks in large part to groups such as Law School Transparency), and people should understand that there are many schools which large portions of the graduating students do not land the type of jobs that most people entering into law school hope to land. Learning about this now is far better than finding out three to four years from now.

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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby FluidMosaic » Wed May 20, 2015 11:14 pm

I go to a T25 and I came to law school with no intention of practicing law and I'm happy. I'm not practicing law this summer, but I was hired because of my school and the fact I was getting a JD. Long term who knows what I'll do but as of now I'm happy with my choice. My next best option was probably dead end corporate (2.4 undergrad).


I also have $$$ from my school so that plays a big factor in my happiness.

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KD35
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby KD35 » Wed May 20, 2015 11:44 pm

Yes I am happy but I'm not a normal result at what most people would call a t2 school. Without giving too much away, good job prospects and post grad potential but that's not the normal situation at my school. Pm me for details.

Long story short: big risk, big reward.

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shintopig
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby shintopig » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:51 pm

My law school is non-T20.

It was T50 but dropped off. Who cares though about that particular metric anyway. No one

Got the dream job with ~$75k in student loans. My law school ranking didn't really matter for my particular job app.

So I'm pretty happy given many people are worse off in both categories (job & loans).

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BmoreOrLess
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby BmoreOrLess » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:34 pm

I go to GULC, am somewhere slightly above median, and not confident in my future. Generally happy (at least after 1L) with my decision tho.

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chuckbass
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby chuckbass » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:44 pm

BmoreOrLess wrote:I go to GULC, am somewhere slightly above median, and not confident in my future. Generally happy (at least after 1L) with my decision tho.

Lol I think you misread the title bb.

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pancakes3
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby pancakes3 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:47 pm

Blueberrypie wrote:I hope all these people who are uppity have the money and accomplishments to back it up, but reality makes it more likely that they are in a sucky situation and focus their anger and frustration at others.


I just wanted this to be a thread where people spoke about how they felt attending a school outside of T20, if that doesn't apply to them and they have nothing constructive to say, what is the point?


Sounds like you asked people how they felt and received answers filled with anger and frustration, or are we not supposed to count those ballots?

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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby jchiles » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:02 pm

I go to a school pretty well outside "T20's" and I am fine with this choice. But it can go wrong in so many ways, nobody should be paying money to take a chance on a school unless they are alright with living the PAYE/maybe PSLF lifestyle.

POTUSorSCOTUS wrote:asking dumb people whether they are happy is futile


Sure but they'll still be able to give you an honest answer, so idk if that makes it futile.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby ManoftheHour » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:07 pm

Rising 2L. Full ride + enough for books and a few months of rent (school decided to give me an extra $3k this year for like no reason at all...) at a school range 30-40ish in the region I want to practice.

Near the top of the class but not top 10%. Am I happy? Generally. I love my school and the people there. I had an amazing year.

However, every night, the thought of unemployment in 2 years keeps me up.

ETA: The feeling never goes away.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:12 am

Blueberrypie wrote:I know I ask a lot of questions. In part, because I'm like a kid ( I ask everything that comes to mind) and I'm at my second job where down time is great!!

I want to know all about your experience.

I'm going to a good law school, but I never been one for rankings and the like. I go where I fit in and where I want to practice, but law schools, students, firms and the world seem to be obsessed with rankings. I always read on this site people that go to relatively great institutions who just say the others are a waste of time and moeny, but I don't think so, at least not for everybody. I think a lot of it has to do with who you are as a person. So I want to hear from those who are outside of the T20 range.


The rude people here are just too lazy to spell it out constantly, so I'll do it for them.

1.) "TLS says T-14 or you suck at life and deserve to die!!!!" is an annoying strawman. People consistently recommend strong regionals with full rides or substantial scholarships over paying full fare at a T14. It's not a prestige driven community. In fact, it's the opposite. Make a thread asking if you should go to Harvard, or take a full ride at Penn, with a goal of a big law firm fancy lawyer job. The majority will say go to Penn. TLS is not focused on ranking. TLS is focused on employment prospects with respect to cost. This sometimes correlates with ranking.

2.) "T20" is a pointless designation. UT places around 45% of its grads into biglaw and federal clerkship positions. Minn does like 20%. These schools should not be considered in the same breath. Schools outisde the T20, like BC, Fordham, and even UIUC, place better than Minn, which sits at 20.

3.) Any school is a waste of time and money if you can't get the job you want from that school, or if it will cost way too much to get that job you want. Have fun paying back a 100k debt that's constantly accruing interest on a 70k salary. If you want to work at a big firm and wear fancy suits while driving around in your brand new Audi, droppin' dolla bills like it ain't no thang, going to a school where only 10% of the grads get those jobs is throwing time and money away.

4.) Like, what even is a "good", or "great", institution? Sure, Emory is a great institution. It's got a prestigious name in the South, there are fancy facilities, nice people, and educated faculty. But if you can't get the job you want and end up 200k in debt, all that is worth nothing.
Last edited by PeanutsNJam on Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:15 am

I went to a T14 with a scholarship and I'm not confident in my future or entirely happy with my decision.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:57 am

This is just a silly thread. I'm sorry, but the OP literally makes no sense. The whole "I'm not one for rankings" thing is so strange to me, since it does not matter one bit whether you care about the rankings or not. It DOES matter that firms and other employers DO care (not so much about the USNWR rankings, but about the reputation of schools, for which USNWR is a proxy). The point of trying to go to a good school has nothing to do with some artificial notion of prestige or anything else like that. It is about trying to maximize your employability (while simultaneously not incurring ruinous debt).

Also, the "T20" is a meaningless distinction.

FWIW, I didn't attend a T20 and I've had a great outcome. But I made a decision as a 0L that I wouldn't repeat now, and I would never advise anyone to follow my footsteps.

gregfootball2001
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Re: Those who do not go to T20's are you confident in your future and happy with your decision?

Postby gregfootball2001 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:21 am

I go to a school ranked in the 30s. I have a wonderful market-paying midlaw job, am less than 100k in debt, and am happy.

However: I have so many friends that aren't happy. It's a tough world out there, and if I knew then what I knew now, I'd have taken the LSAT more than once and tried to go to Vandy with money, or something similar.




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