Notre Dame alum taking questions

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andythefir
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Re: Notre Dame alum taking questions

Postby andythefir » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:59 pm

italianlover wrote:Don't know if this thread is still active. But, if it is, I have a question.

I just finished undergrad at ND this May, and I'm applying to law schools this fall. My numbers are such that I'm focused mostly on T10 schools, but ND keeps lingering in my mind, and I'm trying to decide how much weight I should give it if, say, Harvard or Chicago or Virginia is in the picture. Reasons ND remains appealing: quantity of high quality, Catholic, conservative faculty; my obvious affection for and connection to ND as an alum; siblings currently in undergrad there; potentially (hopefully) generous scholarship opportunities / relatively small debt load (as compared to a T10); the fact of being at a Catholic school. In general, I just like Notre Dame very much.

I know the answer to this depends on what / where I'd like to practice. Unfortunately, I'm not sure. Definitely not biglaw. I'd like to pursue a clerkship, and I've always been interested in fed. gov. work or public interest (maybe something in the Catholic/conservative sphere) . A small part of me is interested in academia, which of course indicates I ought to be looking at the highest ranked school possible.

I know that NDLS punches above its weight in terms of putting students in prestigious positions (especially clerkships), but I'm wondering if it does that well enough that it would be worth sacrificing higher rankings for the relative financial safety and hospitable intellectual environment it provides.

Thanks for any input you all might have.


I'm currently transitioning to big fed gov 2 years out, but I don't think that's the usual outcome. You'd be out of your gourd to turn down Harvard or Chicago to go to NDLS, no matter where you'd like to be. Those schools blow away NDLS in every relevant metric. Specifically, NDLS has a relatively generous LRAP, but it still requires you to work in public interest. Harvard will pay your loans no matter where you work. Chicago and Virginia also blow away NDLS in the best reason to go there: getting a right wing clerkship.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Notre Dame alum taking questions

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:31 am

andythefir wrote:
italianlover wrote:Don't know if this thread is still active. But, if it is, I have a question.

I just finished undergrad at ND this May, and I'm applying to law schools this fall. My numbers are such that I'm focused mostly on T10 schools, but ND keeps lingering in my mind, and I'm trying to decide how much weight I should give it if, say, Harvard or Chicago or Virginia is in the picture. Reasons ND remains appealing: quantity of high quality, Catholic, conservative faculty; my obvious affection for and connection to ND as an alum; siblings currently in undergrad there; potentially (hopefully) generous scholarship opportunities / relatively small debt load (as compared to a T10); the fact of being at a Catholic school. In general, I just like Notre Dame very much.

I know the answer to this depends on what / where I'd like to practice. Unfortunately, I'm not sure. Definitely not biglaw. I'd like to pursue a clerkship, and I've always been interested in fed. gov. work or public interest (maybe something in the Catholic/conservative sphere) . A small part of me is interested in academia, which of course indicates I ought to be looking at the highest ranked school possible.

I know that NDLS punches above its weight in terms of putting students in prestigious positions (especially clerkships), but I'm wondering if it does that well enough that it would be worth sacrificing higher rankings for the relative financial safety and hospitable intellectual environment it provides.

Thanks for any input you all might have.


I'm currently transitioning to big fed gov 2 years out, but I don't think that's the usual outcome. You'd be out of your gourd to turn down Harvard or Chicago to go to NDLS, no matter where you'd like to be. Those schools blow away NDLS in every relevant metric. Specifically, NDLS has a relatively generous LRAP, but it still requires you to work in public interest. Harvard will pay your loans no matter where you work. Chicago and Virginia also blow away NDLS in the best reason to go there: getting a right wing clerkship.


Agreed about all this. Also, congrats! Really happy for you.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Notre Dame alum taking questions

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:32 am

Bump.

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GurleyGurleyGone
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Re: Notre Dame alum taking questions

Postby GurleyGurleyGone » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:42 pm

What have you heard about students and external scholarships? The numbers have shown that NDLS is does not favor near full-tutiion scholarships so that leaves it up to external scholarships? Any scholarships that your classmates have received that are worth applying for compared to others?

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Pomeranian
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Re: Notre Dame alum taking questions

Postby Pomeranian » Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:41 pm

WUSTL offers similar employment outcomes with MUCH better scholarships. I think some ND folks say ND has better alumni connections than Wash U, but whether this results in a boost in employment for grads is debatable. The numbers on LST show there's not much difference between the two.

andythefir
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Re: Notre Dame alum taking questions

Postby andythefir » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:49 pm

Pomeranian wrote:WUSTL offers similar employment outcomes with MUCH better scholarships. I think some ND folks say ND has better alumni connections than Wash U, but whether this results in a boost in employment for grads is debatable. The numbers on LST show there's not much difference between the two.


While that may be true, I would be stunned if WUSTL's LRAP was in the same galaxy as ND's. If you're into big firms, I bet WUSTL does as well or better in St. Louis, Cleveland, and so on, but nowhere near as good in California, Texas, and other non-Midwest places.

TirantMartorell
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Re: Notre Dame alum taking questions

Postby TirantMartorell » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:03 pm

Pomeranian wrote:WUSTL offers similar employment outcomes with MUCH better scholarships. I think some ND folks say ND has better alumni connections than Wash U, but whether this results in a boost in employment for grads is debatable. The numbers on LST show there's not much difference between the two.


Outcomes are similar, although LST shows ND is marginally better at biglaw+fed clerk (40.2% vs. 33.8%). Wash U offers much better scholarships for some. I've known people with better scholarship offers at ND. It all depends on your numbers. I think these 2 schools have very different admissions strategies. If you're sitting at median GPA with a 164/165, I doubt Wash U will throw much money at you, but you could get a good deal at ND.

Wash U offers great deals to splitters and that's probably their main advantage. If you have a 3.1 and a 168, Wash U is probably where you'll get the most money. Essentially, Wash you is now attracting a bunch of students with T14 LSAT numbers who perhaps have turned down T14 schools to attend Wash U for free.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Notre Dame alum taking questions

Postby ndirish2010 » Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:54 pm

I've seen the number of people getting substantial scholarships to NDLS go up in recent years. But still, probably true that WashU gives more. I think NDLS has maybe a very slight advantage over WashU, but it depends upon the market and what you want to do. For example, WashU has a terrible clerkship placement record and several students and former students on here have told me, both on the board and PMs, that it caused them to significantly underperform. That won't happen at NDLS, especially if you're conservative.

andythefir
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Re: Notre Dame alum taking questions

Postby andythefir » Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:01 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:I've seen the number of people getting substantial scholarships to NDLS go up in recent years. But still, probably true that WashU gives more. I think NDLS has maybe a very slight advantage over WashU, but it depends upon the market and what you want to do. For example, WashU has a terrible clerkship placement record and several students and former students on here have told me, both on the board and PMs, that it caused them to significantly underperform. That won't happen at NDLS, especially if you're conservative.


I'm frustrated that NDLS hasn't taken the opportunity of the down economy to out-bid its competitors. With that endowment they should have shrunk the classes and thrown huge money at top prospects when applications went down. Instead, it's my understanding the 1L class size has actually gone up.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Notre Dame alum taking questions

Postby ndirish2010 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:15 pm

andythefir wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:I've seen the number of people getting substantial scholarships to NDLS go up in recent years. But still, probably true that WashU gives more. I think NDLS has maybe a very slight advantage over WashU, but it depends upon the market and what you want to do. For example, WashU has a terrible clerkship placement record and several students and former students on here have told me, both on the board and PMs, that it caused them to significantly underperform. That won't happen at NDLS, especially if you're conservative.


I'm frustrated that NDLS hasn't taken the opportunity of the down economy to out-bid its competitors. With that endowment they should have shrunk the classes and thrown huge money at top prospects when applications went down. Instead, it's my understanding the 1L class size has actually gone up.


Yeah, this. It's frustrating. We should not have class sizes approaching 200. Wouldn't have to spread that money around if we just kept a smaller class size.

andythefir
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Re: Notre Dame alum taking questions

Postby andythefir » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:58 pm

You'd take a hit in revenue from the 50 or so full-tuition-paying students you'd cut, but you could get some very high quality prospects by dipping into the endowment when peer schools are hurting.




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