What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity? Forum
- djbatista
- Posts: 87
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
Hey fair enough it's not like I'm trying to stop you from putting your opinion out there or anything...
- Johann
- Posts: 19704
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:25 pm
Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
Nobody becomes flithy rich making 70k a year. Most every law job has terrible benefits because you are working for small partnerships and they are very expensive for the firm. It looks like you're a real authority on these issues.djbatista wrote: A person who goes into law school and comes out with debt but finds a nice law job that pays even around 70K with benefits is far better situated than a person with no debt who is making 40-60K as a standard office worker. There's more potential for growth and success, a better lifestyle with more money in the bank, and opportunities lateraling to different types of firms and connecting with other people, as well as the specialized knowledge of beginning one's own practice in the future. Many attorneys become filthy rich this way.
- bjsesq
- Posts: 13320
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
You just lack the DRIVE and STICK TO IT-TIVENESS to get bro's point.JohannDeMann wrote:Nobody becomes flithy rich making 70k a year. Most every law job has terrible benefits because you are working for small partnerships and they are very expensive for the firm. It looks like you're a real authority on these issues.djbatista wrote: A person who goes into law school and comes out with debt but finds a nice law job that pays even around 70K with benefits is far better situated than a person with no debt who is making 40-60K as a standard office worker. There's more potential for growth and success, a better lifestyle with more money in the bank, and opportunities lateraling to different types of firms and connecting with other people, as well as the specialized knowledge of beginning one's own practice in the future. Many attorneys become filthy rich this way.
- djbatista
- Posts: 87
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
Interesting, is this (the benefits part) true for big law as well? No need to be so confrontational btw if you disagree or I'm wrong about something, saying so will suffice.JohannDeMann wrote:Nobody becomes flithy rich making 70k a year. Most every law job has terrible benefits because you are working for small partnerships and they are very expensive for the firm. It looks like you're a real authority on these issues.djbatista wrote: A person who goes into law school and comes out with debt but finds a nice law job that pays even around 70K with benefits is far better situated than a person with no debt who is making 40-60K as a standard office worker. There's more potential for growth and success, a better lifestyle with more money in the bank, and opportunities lateraling to different types of firms and connecting with other people, as well as the specialized knowledge of beginning one's own practice in the future. Many attorneys become filthy rich this way.
- Johann
- Posts: 19704
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:25 pm
Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
My benefits are fine in biglaw. They cover what I need - health insurance. They aren't great by any means though - no 401k matching or anything like that.
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- djbatista
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:21 pm
Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
Gotcha. Well still worth it the salary makes up for that. Roth IRA all the wayJohannDeMann wrote:My benefits are fine in biglaw. They cover what I need - health insurance. They aren't great by any means though - no 401k matching or anything like that.
- smaug
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
boo, I love you, but you're arguing with a potato
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
you've never worked a day in the legal industry, have you?djbatista wrote: A person who goes into law school and comes out with debt but finds a nice law job that pays even around 70K with benefits is far better situated than a person with no debt who is making 40-60K as a standard office worker. There's more potential for growth and success, a better lifestyle with more money in the bank, and opportunities lateraling to different types of firms and connecting with other people, as well as the specialized knowledge of beginning one's own practice in the future. Many attorneys become filthy rich this way.
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
When has that ever stopped you?Jason Taverner wrote:boo, I love you, but you're arguing with a potato
- OhBoyOhBortles
- Posts: 2473
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:01 am
Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
Tbf, i think his primary concern is the lurkers who may believe that there is a shred of truth in the potato's argument. Potato's gonna pay sticker to go to UF and have a coin flip's chance at becoming an attorney. The lurkers can likely still be saved.Jason Taverner wrote:boo, I love you, but you're arguing with a potato
- smaug
- Posts: 13972
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
I'm turning a new leaf.ymmv wrote:When has that ever stopped you?Jason Taverner wrote:boo, I love you, but you're arguing with a potato
- djbatista
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:21 pm
Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
Actually I'm a paralegal at an employment discrimination firm. I may come back here to work after graduating.Cogburn87 wrote:you've never worked a day in the legal industry, have you?djbatista wrote: A person who goes into law school and comes out with debt but finds a nice law job that pays even around 70K with benefits is far better situated than a person with no debt who is making 40-60K as a standard office worker. There's more potential for growth and success, a better lifestyle with more money in the bank, and opportunities lateraling to different types of firms and connecting with other people, as well as the specialized knowledge of beginning one's own practice in the future. Many attorneys become filthy rich this way.
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- starry eyed
- Posts: 2046
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
well then why don't you go to shitty law school for free, and come back and work there?djbatista wrote:Actually I'm a paralegal at an employment discrimination firm. I may come back here to work after graduating.Cogburn87 wrote:you've never worked a day in the legal industry, have you?djbatista wrote: A person who goes into law school and comes out with debt but finds a nice law job that pays even around 70K with benefits is far better situated than a person with no debt who is making 40-60K as a standard office worker. There's more potential for growth and success, a better lifestyle with more money in the bank, and opportunities lateraling to different types of firms and connecting with other people, as well as the specialized knowledge of beginning one's own practice in the future. Many attorneys become filthy rich this way.
risk/reward is higher IMO
- djbatista
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:21 pm
Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
You have a point but over the long-term UF degree is worth far more here in FL. Also in state tuition is 60k which is pretty reasonable.starry eyed wrote:well then why don't you go to shitty law school for free, and come back and work there?djbatista wrote:Actually I'm a paralegal at an employment discrimination firm. I may come back here to work after graduating.Cogburn87 wrote:you've never worked a day in the legal industry, have you?djbatista wrote: A person who goes into law school and comes out with debt but finds a nice law job that pays even around 70K with benefits is far better situated than a person with no debt who is making 40-60K as a standard office worker. There's more potential for growth and success, a better lifestyle with more money in the bank, and opportunities lateraling to different types of firms and connecting with other people, as well as the specialized knowledge of beginning one's own practice in the future. Many attorneys become filthy rich this way.
risk/reward is higher IMO
Not sure I understand where you're coming from here. Problem with employment law?Cogburn87 wrote:Yikes
- bjsesq
- Posts: 13320
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:02 am
Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
This. Absolutely this.OhBoyOhBortles wrote:Tbf, i think his primary concern is the lurkers who may believe that there is a shred of truth in the potato's argument. Potato's gonna pay sticker to go to UF and have a coin flip's chance at becoming an attorney. The lurkers can likely still be saved.Jason Taverner wrote:boo, I love you, but you're arguing with a potato
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
Problem with the advice you're giving based on your (lack of) knowledge of the current state of the legal profession.djbatista wrote:Not sure I understand where you're coming from here. Problem with employment law?
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- LA Spring
- Posts: 194
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
I wish. I’m just not totally on board with “it’s mostly about luck.” Certainly luck may play a part, i.e., choosing (or being chosen) by the right fit law firm.Cogburn87 wrote:would u say ur the Tom Brady of ur law firm?LA Spring wrote:I don’t chalk it all up to luck. I suppose it’s possible that Tom Brady and LeBron James are really lucky or perhaps they are on the first string because they are talented. After 3 months as an SA and 8 months as an associate what I’ve continually seen is that certain people continually receive better assignments. There are first years handling bigger cases than 3rd years, I don’t believe that this is necessarily attributed to luck.
- 84651846190
- Posts: 2198
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm
Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
Not sucking at your job is obviously a prerequisite to being successful, so you're not really making any groundbreaking points with this post.LA Spring wrote:I don’t chalk it all up to luck. I suppose it’s possible that Tom Brady and LeBron James are really lucky or perhaps they are on the first string because they are talented. After 3 months as an SA and 8 months as an associate what I’ve continually seen is that certain people continually receive better assignments. There are first years handling bigger cases than 3rd years, I don’t believe that this is necessarily attributed to luck.
You must work at a shitty firm if some of the associates are bad enough to not be trusted with certain kinds of work. The vast majority of what you do as a junior is just not that difficult and most associates at my V20 were fungible.
- Johann
- Posts: 19704
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
I'll agree to a certain extent here. But the point you are missing is the luck that put that 1st year and 3rd year in their respective positions and one was set up to fail and the other thrive. You would be a fool to believe that if you put those same 2 people in 50 other practice groups, the same person comes out ahead in even 30-35 of them. Just as your skills and whether or not you are good at an exam was up to perception in law school, the same applies for practice. So much of law just comes down to partner preference. Certain people work well with others - your flaws can be covered by other on the team, certain projects require certain skills so maybe you just get lucky and people think you're an all star year 1 but you really haven't been exposed to your weakness yet, maybe your midlevels can cover for you, maybe you work the same schedule as a certain partner so everytime he calls you are in your office and he thinks you're really diligent and always working like him because he works 9-9 and you are there at 8:30 pm when he calls but the partner that works 5-5 would think you are a bum sleeping in everyday, maybe you and your partner are both procrastinators so he doesn't realize that as a weakness, maybe you are just calm and chill all the time and they like that, maybe you are always worried about every detail and they like that, etc. The point is partner preference is going to range and vary by a lot. Yeah some people generally suck, but for the most part - everybody's working on a similar plane of intelligence and in the same sort of world here.LA Spring wrote:I wish. I’m just not totally on board with “it’s mostly about luck.” Certainly luck may play a part, i.e., choosing (or being chosen) by the right fit law firm.Cogburn87 wrote:would u say ur the Tom Brady of ur law firm?LA Spring wrote:I don’t chalk it all up to luck. I suppose it’s possible that Tom Brady and LeBron James are really lucky or perhaps they are on the first string because they are talented. After 3 months as an SA and 8 months as an associate what I’ve continually seen is that certain people continually receive better assignments. There are first years handling bigger cases than 3rd years, I don’t believe that this is necessarily attributed to luck.
As far as your basketball analogy a more appropriate analogy would be Josh Smith - The Detroit Pistons one of the worst teams in the league cut Josh Smith and many thought he would be done in the NBA. He went to the Houston Rockets and was the most important player in the most important game of the Western Conference semifinals. That's the same with law. That 3rd year that will get forced out by your firm may go on to another firm and become partner. The amount of delusion on this website of people who think they are prodigy paper pushers is astounding.
- 84651846190
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
I don't think anyone here has argued that "it's mostly luck" in the way you are suggesting we have.LA Spring wrote:I wish. I’m just not totally on board with “it’s mostly about luck.” Certainly luck may play a part, i.e., choosing (or being chosen) by the right fit law firm.Cogburn87 wrote:would u say ur the Tom Brady of ur law firm?LA Spring wrote:I don’t chalk it all up to luck. I suppose it’s possible that Tom Brady and LeBron James are really lucky or perhaps they are on the first string because they are talented. After 3 months as an SA and 8 months as an associate what I’ve continually seen is that certain people continually receive better assignments. There are first years handling bigger cases than 3rd years, I don’t believe that this is necessarily attributed to luck.
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
There's a difference between the commonly found overestimation of one's own potential relative to others' and "luck."
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
u can bring a gubbermint to its knee if you have a J.D.
- A. Nony Mouse
- Posts: 29293
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
I sure didn't. I just said people don't realize how much of a role luck plays. Maybe I should say people don't realize how many factors come into play over which they have no control. Johann's post is a good example of how it can work.Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:I don't think anyone here has argued that "it's mostly luck" in the way you are suggesting we have.LA Spring wrote:I wish. I’m just not totally on board with “it’s mostly about luck.” Certainly luck may play a part, i.e., choosing (or being chosen) by the right fit law firm.Cogburn87 wrote:would u say ur the Tom Brady of ur law firm?LA Spring wrote:I don’t chalk it all up to luck. I suppose it’s possible that Tom Brady and LeBron James are really lucky or perhaps they are on the first string because they are talented. After 3 months as an SA and 8 months as an associate what I’ve continually seen is that certain people continually receive better assignments. There are first years handling bigger cases than 3rd years, I don’t believe that this is necessarily attributed to luck.
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Re: What encourages you to attend law school among all the negativity?
I think on the previous point made about some 2Ls usually receiving better assignments than 3Ls, this points to a source of optimism for some entering/current law students (perhaps including myself). That is, the path from law school to becoming a successful practitioner cannot always it seems be predicted by what year or what school or what grades you have. Some of these externalities may be perceived as "luck" in a general sense, but I think that is mainly because they work differently for different people in different markets. Browsing through biglaw partners at firms in my hometown (a major market) reveals very few JDs from the schools one might expect. That is to say, "luck" may be the label that we attach to the broader range of subtle personal affinities, frats, school connection, the unique arrangement and order of people one encounters, etc. that permits, say, a JD with an average CV to succeed nonetheless. If this is true, which I think it is, it serves as a source of cautious optimism for entering/current students. Or maybe..
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