1L Contemplating Dropping Out

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
lost0L
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:34 am

1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby lost0L » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:29 pm

Hi, I'm at CCN and considering dropping out of law school. My best grade is a B, and the rest are a B- or C. I plan on sticking it out the rest of the semester to see what happens for my last set of grades, but I'm not feeling too confident. Assuming the rest of my grades aren't higher than a B, is it worth it to continue? Goal is big law or government. K-JD, white, male. Thanks.

User avatar
ManoftheHour
Posts: 3398
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:03 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby ManoftheHour » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:31 pm

As others have told me, it's halftime.

Contemplating dropping out is for after you get your grades.

Nomo
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:06 am

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby Nomo » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:34 pm

Depends on what your goals/interests are and how much money the next two years will cost you.

k5220
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby k5220 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:43 pm

I'm at a CCN and I know a couple people with first semester grades that bad (no C's but all B-'s) who ended up fine. Do you still want to practice law? If you do, you should figure out what went wrong first semester and work really hard to fix it. Speak with professors, pay attention to the way good exam answers from previous years were structured, take different practice exams and see if you can structure your answer in a similar way, make your own outlines. There's still plenty of time to get on track if you want to.

AReasonableMan
Posts: 1504
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby AReasonableMan » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:45 pm

Writing this now is a natural reaction to stress. You're stressed over exams, and if you decide to drop out then your stress goes away. However, at this point you've already sunk the cost of the semester. Therefore, the only logical course of action is to try as hard as you can. If you assume you current lot is unacceptable then you can only improve your lot over the next few weeks.

User avatar
Clearly
Posts: 4165
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby Clearly » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:39 pm

Even if you decide to drop out, waiting till after OCI (which you're 95% of the way to) is obviously the credited response.

User avatar
fisheatbananas
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:26 am

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby fisheatbananas » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:58 pm

AReasonableMan wrote:Writing this now is a natural reaction to stress. You're stressed over exams, and if you decide to drop out then your stress goes away. However, at this point you've already sunk the cost of the semester. Therefore, the only logical course of action is to try as hard as you can. If you assume you current lot is unacceptable then you can only improve your lot over the next few weeks.

User avatar
MCFC
Posts: 8479
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:46 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby MCFC » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:01 pm

I honestly don't know the answer to this question, but what are the costs of at least giving OCi a try in August?

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 9635
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:31 pm

if this is CLS (seems very unlikely), yes I'd probably drop out if there's no improvement with spring finals.

if it's NYU -- which I'm assuming it is -- the real concern is the C grade. Figure out what happened there and don't let it happen again in this round of exams.

k5220
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby k5220 » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:16 pm

jbagelboy wrote:if this is CLS (seems very unlikely), yes I'd probably drop out if there's no improvement with spring finals.

if it's NYU -- which I'm assuming it is -- the real concern is the C grade. Figure out what happened there and don't let it happen again in this round of exams.

Why would you advise dropping out of Columbia but not NYU? (I think OP's at Columbia)

User avatar
rpupkin
Posts: 3864
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby rpupkin » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:24 pm

k5220 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:if this is CLS (seems very unlikely), yes I'd probably drop out if there's no improvement with spring finals.

if it's NYU -- which I'm assuming it is -- the real concern is the C grade. Figure out what happened there and don't let it happen again in this round of exams.

Why would you advise dropping out of Columbia but not NYU? (I think OP's at Columbia)

I'm assuming it's because NYU professors will give out the occasional C, whereas at CLS a C is so rare that it's more of a mark of shame.

k5220
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby k5220 » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:28 pm

rpupkin wrote:
k5220 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:if this is CLS (seems very unlikely), yes I'd probably drop out if there's no improvement with spring finals.

if it's NYU -- which I'm assuming it is -- the real concern is the C grade. Figure out what happened there and don't let it happen again in this round of exams.

Why would you advise dropping out of Columbia but not NYU? (I think OP's at Columbia)

I'm assuming it's because NYU professors will give out the occasional C, whereas at CLS a C is so rare that it's more of a mark of shame.

NYU professors don't give out C's either. Zero were given out in my section 1L year, and no professor gave out more than 4% B-'s.

User avatar
rpupkin
Posts: 3864
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby rpupkin » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:35 pm

k5220 wrote:NYU professors don't give out C's either. Zero were given out in my section 1L year, and no professor gave out more than 4% B-'s.

Then I'm not sure what Jbagel meant. I'll let him explain.

I suspect that the OP is at Chicago and got a grade that he/she believes is the equivalent of a C. OP: I'm not trying to out you, but the fact that you go to Chicago really matters here. Trust me, some employers won't realize that your 172 (or whatever) is a C. And even though I know that (I see a fair number of U of C transcripts), I just don't find that the number has the same visceral effect as a C or a LP. It's stupid but I really do think that Chicago's wacky numeric grading system helps its bottom-of-the-class students a bit.

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 9635
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:13 pm

Rpupkin described my thinking right. At NYU professors will give a B- to a student who performs near the bottom of the class, and a C to a student who really shits the bed on an exam. At CLS, bottom of the class gets a B; a handful of profs give discretionary B- for really, really shitting the bed. You won't get a C unless you basically don't sit for the exam. Jody Kraus gave a student a C last year and that student dropped out; that's the only C I've heard of since 2013 (other professors used to give them more frequently before the revised grading structure.

Since more B- and C are given out at NYU, it's presumably more survivable. You could obviously argue the other side but those are my thoughts.

User avatar
Mack.Hambleton
Posts: 5417
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:09 am

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:46 am

jbagelboy wrote:Rpupkin described my thinking right. At NYU professors will give a B- to a student who performs near the bottom of the class, and a C to a student who really shits the bed on an exam. At CLS, bottom of the class gets a B; a handful of profs give discretionary B- for really, really shitting the bed. You won't get a C unless you basically don't sit for the exam. Jody Kraus gave a student a C last year and that student dropped out; that's the only C I've heard of since 2013 (other professors used to give them more frequently before the revised grading structure.

Since more B- and C are given out at NYU, it's presumably more survivable. You could obviously argue the other side but those are my thoughts.


holy shit lol, any more to that story?

User avatar
eriedoctrine
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 1:00 am

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby eriedoctrine » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:32 am

What do you call someone at CLS last in his class?
biglaw associate

the few people I know that attending CLS/NYU who couldn't get an SA were fine with grades. They were just awkward as fk. Also a bit chubby.

03152016
Posts: 9189
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:14 am

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby 03152016 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:27 am

yea B- is not that uncommon at nyu
the guideline is 4-11%, with a target of 7-8% of each class

if one gets straight Bs, they'll have a 3.0 gpa
if one gets below a 3.0, they received at least one B- or below
oci success rate last year for sub-3.0 was close to 70%
so a B- or two is certainly no death knell

the C is a little scarier
the guideline is 2-5%, but only around 10-15% of profs actually give Cs
and for fall 2014, only one 1L prof gave Cs, and to only 3 students
so that will certainly stand out

also, the highest your gpa could be right now (if your B was civpro) is 2.59
that, unfortunately, has to be in the bottom 10% of the class
talk to ocs over the summer, but right now, go talk to arthur fama
tell him about your grades predicament. tutoring sign-up is over but maybe he can make an exception

User avatar
MCFC
Posts: 8479
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:46 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby MCFC » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:34 am

rpupkin wrote:.

I suspect that the OP is at Chicago and got a grade that he/she believes is the equivalent of a C. OP: I'm not trying to out you, but the fact that you go to Chicago really matters here. Trust me, some employers won't realize that your 172 (or whatever) is a C. And even though I know that (I see a fair number of U of C transcripts), I just don't find that the number has the same visceral effect as a C or a LP. It's stupid but I really do think that Chicago's wacky numeric grading system helps its bottom-of-the-class students a bit.

Still think this might be right.

03152016
Posts: 9189
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:14 am

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby 03152016 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:36 am

op maybe just say what school you're at

User avatar
nothingtosee
Posts: 865
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 12:08 am

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby nothingtosee » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:38 am

Brut wrote:yea B- is not that uncommon at nyu
the guideline is 4-11%, with a target of 7-8% of each class

if one gets straight Bs, they'll have a 3.0 gpa
if one gets below a 3.0, they received at least one B- or below
oci success rate last year for sub-3.0 was close to 70%
so a B- or two is certainly no death knell

the C is a little scarier
the guideline is 2-5%, but only around 10-15% of profs actually give Cs
and for fall 2014, only one 1L prof gave Cs, and to only 3 students
so that will certainly stand out

also, the highest your gpa could be right now (if your B was civpro) is 2.59
that, unfortunately, has to be in the bottom 10% of the class
talk to ocs over the summer, but right now, go talk to arthur fama
tell him about your grades predicament. tutoring sign-up is over but maybe he can make an exception


Do they make that guideline info public? If so, that's great

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 9635
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:17 am

eriedoctrine wrote:What do you call someone at CLS last in his class?
biglaw associate

the few people I know that attending CLS/NYU who couldn't get an SA were fine with grades. They were just awkward as fk. Also a bit chubby.


Oci protip: hit das gym.

It's actually kind of true.

User avatar
pancakes3
Posts: 3891
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:49 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby pancakes3 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:51 am

jbagelboy wrote:
eriedoctrine wrote:What do you call someone at CLS last in his class?
biglaw associate

the few people I know that attending CLS/NYU who couldn't get an SA were fine with grades. They were just awkward as fk. Also a bit chubby.


Oci protip: hit das gym.

It's actually kind of true.


And what about my lazy eye?

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 9635
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:03 pm

pancakes3 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
eriedoctrine wrote:What do you call someone at CLS last in his class?
biglaw associate

the few people I know that attending CLS/NYU who couldn't get an SA were fine with grades. They were just awkward as fk. Also a bit chubby.


Oci protip: hit das gym.

It's actually kind of true.


And what about my lazy eye?


Keep yo shades on

Kanye does it

User avatar
BizBro
Posts: 705
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:21 am

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby BizBro » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:57 pm

OP, don't think about dropping out until you do OCI, or at the very least, get back your 1L spring grades. I didn't know N gave out C's but I would listen to Brut. Still a close to 70% OCI success rate at N for those below 3.0.

olive16
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:13 pm

Re: 1L Contemplating Dropping Out

Postby olive16 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:55 pm

Stop thinking about dropping out and study for exams; take your exams. Go do OCI.

If you strike out at OCI, cut your losses and drop out.




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: shineoncrazydiamond and 5 guests