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A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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NoBladesNoBows
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Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:25 pm

Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Desert Fox
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby Desert Fox » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:26 pm

Electrical Engineer.

This thread is exactly you trying to shade people who hate it as lazy people who have never been real adults. I thought the same way and then reality Penn State'd me real hard.

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:59 pm

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Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kcdc1
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby kcdc1 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:14 pm

If it's about work culture comparison, why limit the survey sample to people that hate biglaw? Wouldn't the opinions of people who find biglaw tolerable or enjoyable be just as informative for that purpose?

$$$$$$
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby $$$$$$ » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:15 pm

Consultant.

Hours were typically 8:30 - 5:30 with work done at night in my hotel room if needed. On the road 4 days a week, sometimes 5 if necessary. Co-workers were mostly MBAs (I was only lawyer on any team I worked on). Hours were significantly better, and I could work from home on Fridays. Work environment was pretty positive, but there was always a strange tension between the consultants and the clients until your teams meshed (which may never happen), big law work environment is way more stressful because of the people and the type of work.

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DELG
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby DELG » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:15 pm

NoBladesNoBows wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Electrical Engineer.

This thread is exactly you trying to shade people who hate it as lazy people who have never been real adults. I thought the same way and then reality Penn State'd me real hard.


This is not the case at all and please don't presume to know my intentions. I clearly explained in the first post why I am asking this question (culture comparison) and it seriously has nothing to do with work ethic.

I had exactly the job you did and worked the exact same hours at it and got the exact same reviews HTH

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seizmaar
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby seizmaar » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:18 pm

Image

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DELG
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby DELG » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:21 pm

Instead let's make a list of people we know who are happy and what they did

I will start, I know a happy former receptionist, and know no unhappy former receptionists.

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:40 pm

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Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dood
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby dood » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:45 pm

i was a pirate

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:51 pm

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Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Desert Fox
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby Desert Fox » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:53 pm

NoBladesNoBows wrote:Jesus I had no idea the can of worms that I was opening with this question. Please tone down the defensiveness, or if the question is really that unbearably offensive just move along. Hopefully I can get more useful answers by clarifying a few things.

1. I'm not some 0L that is convinced that biglaw is the be-all and end-all of law school. It soaks you in preftige and wealth and really the people that don't like it just can't handle the hours and are lazy, whiny KJDs. Please. I'm not that naive.

In reality I'm some 0L that is seriously considering law school and attorney career options. Biglaw is one of the most obvious considerations, and as of now if I have any feelings toward the idea of it they are hesitant skepticism. I'm not trying to "throw shade" on anyone that doesn't like biglaw because I personally have no positive feelings toward biglaw. I'm trying to understand the reasons that you don't like it from a frame of reference that allows me to better understand.

2. No, people that love their biglaw jobs do not have equally useful experiences. Jobs are jobs. Unless you're in a lucky 1% (that I'm not convinced even exists) you're not going to find something that you absolutely love and fulfills and makes you happy every day. Therefore I find the conglomeration of little reasons that makes a job satisfying much less useful than those horrible reasons that make you wake up and hate your life every morning. The negative feelings are much more intense, and therefore much more important to consider on an individual basis.

3. Trying to point out flaws in my logic is pointless and misguided if you do not understand what my logic is. I'm not looking for some statistically sound sample size from which to draw a conclusion about whether I think people that hate biglaw should be taken seriously or not. I am actively seeking anecdotal evidence about why people hate biglaw. The reason that prior work experience is relevant is because it makes it easier to compare to my own experiences.

Simple example: You say you hate biglaw because your career feels unstable as an associate. I think, "That's definitely not good, but at the same time anyone can get fired". Then I find out that your former work experience is at a tech startup and I think, "Wow that's already a very unstable work environment, so now I understand that being a biglaw associate is even more unstable than that".

This doesn't mean that I don't take you seriously if you don't have anything to compare it to, it just means that having something to evaluate it against makes it even more informative.

Seriously guys, defensiveness. Chill.


HOW DARE YOU PRESUME TO UNDERSTAND MY MOTIVES

(two beats later)

(does exactly what we accuse you of)

kaiser
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby kaiser » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:54 pm

NoBladesNoBows wrote:
dood wrote:i was a pirate


How did the culture compare to that of biglaw?


Pretty similar in that people have the urge to drink on the job

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dood
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby dood » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:55 pm

NoBladesNoBows wrote:
dood wrote:i was a pirate


How did the culture compare to that of biglaw?


pretty much the same. eat what you kill. raping and pillaging highly encouraged.

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:58 pm

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Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:58 pm

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Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Desert Fox
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby Desert Fox » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:00 pm

NoBladesNoBows wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
NoBladesNoBows wrote:Jesus I had no idea the can of worms that I was opening with this question. Please tone down the defensiveness, or if the question is really that unbearably offensive just move along. Hopefully I can get more useful answers by clarifying a few things.

1. I'm not some 0L that is convinced that biglaw is the be-all and end-all of law school. It soaks you in preftige and wealth and really the people that don't like it just can't handle the hours and are lazy, whiny KJDs. Please. I'm not that naive.

In reality I'm some 0L that is seriously considering law school and attorney career options. Biglaw is one of the most obvious considerations, and as of now if I have any feelings toward the idea of it they are hesitant skepticism. I'm not trying to "throw shade" on anyone that doesn't like biglaw because I personally have no positive feelings toward biglaw. I'm trying to understand the reasons that you don't like it from a frame of reference that allows me to better understand.

2. No, people that love their biglaw jobs do not have equally useful experiences. Jobs are jobs. Unless you're in a lucky 1% (that I'm not convinced even exists) you're not going to find something that you absolutely love and fulfills and makes you happy every day. Therefore I find the conglomeration of little reasons that makes a job satisfying much less useful than those horrible reasons that make you wake up and hate your life every morning. The negative feelings are much more intense, and therefore much more important to consider on an individual basis.

3. Trying to point out flaws in my logic is pointless and misguided if you do not understand what my logic is. I'm not looking for some statistically sound sample size from which to draw a conclusion about whether I think people that hate biglaw should be taken seriously or not. I am actively seeking anecdotal evidence about why people hate biglaw. The reason that prior work experience is relevant is because it makes it easier to compare to my own experiences.

Simple example: You say you hate biglaw because your career feels unstable as an associate. I think, "That's definitely not good, but at the same time anyone can get fired". Then I find out that your former work experience is at a tech startup and I think, "Wow that's already a very unstable work environment, so now I understand that being a biglaw associate is even more unstable than that".

This doesn't mean that I don't take you seriously if you don't have anything to compare it to, it just means that having something to evaluate it against makes it even more informative.

Seriously guys, defensiveness. Chill.


HOW DARE YOU PRESUME TO UNDERSTAND MY MOTIVES

(two beats later)

(does exactly what we accuse you of)


Ok great thanks for your commentary.

Moving on, how did your life as an electrical engineer compare to that of a biglaw associate?


Way way way better. the difference between 9-5 and 9-9 isn't just 4 hours it's like all of your free time.

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:06 pm

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Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:15 pm

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Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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seizmaar
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby seizmaar » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:17 pm

NoBladesNoBows wrote:Some days I feel like I'm in kindergarten.


don't go to law school

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:18 pm

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Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rpupkin
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby rpupkin » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:24 pm

NoBladesNoBows wrote:People are incapable of not using the word "leverage" in a sentence. We name process management strategies after Brazilian restaurants. There's something that is legitimately called a treasure chest. Some days I feel like I'm in kindergarten.

You realize that big law lawyers work with business clients, right? And you'll have to correspond with those clients and, even worse, review thousands of their documents for hours on end. Those clients will use the word "leverage" in every sentence and have goofy names for projects.

Also, lawyers at your law firm will use the word "leverage" and have goofy names for things.

In conclusion, you should drop out of society and move to a cabin in Montana.

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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby notgreat » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:25 pm

NoBladesNoBows wrote:Also, what are the little things that just drive you crazy? For example, I'm currently a Business Analyst in a Fortune 500. Pay is good and I like some of the work, but I have other major problems with it (obviously if I'm considering law school). But one little thing that just drives me fucking insane is all the jargon. Seriously some of the shit is so stupid. People are incapable of not using the word "leverage" in a sentence. We name process management strategies after Brazilian restaurants. There's something that is legitimately called a treasure chest. Some days I feel like I'm in kindergarten.


Dude this seems like a really flippant reason not to like your job. It seems like the big law bros and broettes here have more serious reasons for hating their jobs.

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DELG
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby DELG » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:32 pm

Things that suck: nothing is ever done "well" it was just either flawless and error free or something was wrong.

You're never not on call.

There isn't much inconsequential, mindless work, and you have to track all your hours, so you don't get to have "off" days. Hope you work well with hangovers.

There is no work gatekeeper. No one wonders if it's possible for you to do all the work you have.

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Desert Fox
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Re: People That Hate Biglaw: What Is Your Pre-Biglaw WE?

Postby Desert Fox » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:36 pm

DELG wrote:Things that suck: nothing is ever done "well" it was just either flawless and error free or something was wrong.

You're never not on call.

There isn't much inconsequential, mindless work, and you have to track all your hours, so you don't get to have "off" days. Hope you work well with hangovers.

There is no work gatekeeper. No one wonders if it's possible for you to do all the work you have.



This part is really awful. I had a slow week last week. Partners were gone, nothing really urgent, I was told to lay off billing to one client who was pissed at the last bill. I think I probably billed about 15 hours. Well that 25 hours I didn't bill has to be done some other time now.
Last edited by Desert Fox on Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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