Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:47 pm

literally 90% of those are shitpoasts in study/waiter threads, so no, my posts are worse.

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beepboopbeep
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby beepboopbeep » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:51 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:literally 90% of those are shitpoasts in study/waiter threads, so no, my posts are worse.


I kind of like you OP, in spite of (or because of?) your density. The resistance you are putting up in this thread will only make your eventual absorption into the TLS hivemind sweeter.

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ymmv
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby ymmv » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:54 pm

beepboopbeep wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:literally 90% of those are shitpoasts in study/waiter threads, so no, my posts are worse.


I kind of like you OP, in spite of (or because of?) your density. The resistance you are putting up in this thread will only make your eventual absorption into the TLS hivemind sweeter.


He will have permanently switched to an alt by then so it's not like we'll ever know anyway.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:54 pm

beepboopbeep wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:literally 90% of those are shitpoasts in study/waiter threads, so no, my posts are worse.


I kind of like you OP, in spite of (or because of?) your density. The resistance you are putting up in this thread will only make your eventual absorption into the TLS hivemind sweeter.


You missed this:

PeanutsNJam wrote:I get it. My fate is in the hands of a higher power and there isn't much I can do but roll with it.


And there really isn't anything dense about resistance towards taking internet strangers at their word. Specifically internet strangers that shit on you without provocation.

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ymmv
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby ymmv » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:58 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:I get it. My fate is in the hands of a higher power and there isn't much I can do but roll with it.


And there really isn't anything dense about resistance towards taking internet strangers at their word. Specifically internet strangers that shit on you without provocation.


You've been an arrogant, incorrigible ass from your first post in this thread, and if you can't understand how antagonistic half the shit you've said about other law students is then you're as socially idiotic as you are stubborn.

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runinthefront
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby runinthefront » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:59 pm

your entire thread was asking internet strangers for advice/clarification...

...to resist that advice/clarification in return?

dude you're a weirdo for sure

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby Ron Don Volante » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:04 pm

beepboopbeep wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:literally 90% of those are shitpoasts in study/waiter threads, so no, my posts are worse.


I kind of like you OP, in spite of (or because of?) your density. The resistance you are putting up in this thread will only make your eventual absorption into the TLS hivemind sweeter.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:05 pm

ymmv wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:I get it. My fate is in the hands of a higher power and there isn't much I can do but roll with it.


And there really isn't anything dense about resistance towards taking internet strangers at their word. Specifically internet strangers that shit on you without provocation.


You've been an arrogant, incorrigible ass from your first post in this thread, and if you can't understand how antagonistic half the shit you've said about other law students is then you're as socially idiotic as you are stubborn.


I'm questioning the discrepancy between what I read in TLS articles on succeeding in law school and the general rhetoric, as well as the counter-intuitive statement that "law school grades are largely not a result of hard work or talent".

Even if it's not the case, I'm an arrogant, incorrigible ass for assuming that law school grading is merit-based, and being unwilling to readily accept:

ymmv wrote:Please no. We literally just had this fucking thread, and your hopeless 0L naïveté in no way adds to all the hopeless 0L naïveté already on display.


?

Quote for me where I have been arrogant. Please.

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romothesavior
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:09 pm

I think people have answered your question in about a dozen different ways.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:10 pm

Of course grades aren't literally random. Studying hard will (probably) at least keep you from being at the bottom of the class. Being well prepared is just one factor out of many, and most are completely outside of your control.

Just as an anecdote, the exam I walked out of thinking I bombed I got an A- on, and the exam I thought I crushed came back with a B. No idea.
Last edited by TheSpanishMain on Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rehbands
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby rehbands » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:10 pm

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Last edited by rehbands on Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:11 pm

If only I would have THOUGHT about the material.

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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby AReasonableMan » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:14 pm

There's a scene in Zero Dark 30 where the CIA Director seeks the opinion of one of his agents, Jeremy on whether the Jessica Chastain character is right about bin Laden's location:

CIA Director: What do you think of the girl?
Jeremy: I think she's fucking smart.
CIA Director: We're all smart, Jeremy.

This is why law school grades are unpredictable. The average American college grad really isn't very bright, which is why it's relatively easy to score well above average on standardized tests. But once you're at a tier one school most people are pretty bright.

Yes, there are many people at lower ranked schools who aren't really very difficult competition, but in any class of 300 people there are always going to be some who the LSAT and UGPA don't properly measure which is why you can't assume you'll be at the top of the class. In addition, law school isn't all IQ. You need a modicum of creativity, ability to see things as multifaceted and and a pretty strong ability to thrive under stress to do well. Everyone thinks they're good at all this intangible stuff, but everyone also thinks they're very good at logic before the LSAT.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:14 pm

The problem people are having is that there have been innumerable discussions here about how it's impossible to predict how well you'll do on 1L exams, because LSAT/GPA/amount of work put in correlate only weakly with law school success, so showing up and saying, "but I don't get why it's unpredictable" comes across as saying all those discussions are wrong/meaningless.

And no one's saying that law school grades have nothing to do with talent or merit. It's just that the talent is a talent for taking law school exams, not for getting a good UGPA or succeeding on the LSAT, and merit is only exactly what you write down during 3 hours of an exam compared to what your classmates wrote, not raw intelligence or work ethic or the like. You don't have enough info to assess your talent or merit before you start taking law school exams at a specific school. (For instance, see the transfers who were top 1% at their 1L school who end up top 30% at their new school. Their ability to take exams hasn't changed; who they're compared to has.)

(Also, someone who's posting about getting H's and P's is at a school where everyone is brilliant, grades don't really matter, and I'd be willing to bet the difference between an H and a P is razor thin. That post seems like the living embodiment of confirmation bias.)

kaiser
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby kaiser » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:15 pm

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romothesavior
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:15 pm

Lol dude if you really think most people didn't THINK enough about the material to get in the top 10%, you need to spend more time amongst your classmates.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:16 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
ymmv wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:I get it. My fate is in the hands of a higher power and there isn't much I can do but roll with it.


And there really isn't anything dense about resistance towards taking internet strangers at their word. Specifically internet strangers that shit on you without provocation.


You've been an arrogant, incorrigible ass from your first post in this thread, and if you can't understand how antagonistic half the shit you've said about other law students is then you're as socially idiotic as you are stubborn.


I'm questioning the discrepancy between what I read in TLS articles on succeeding in law school and the general rhetoric, as well as the counter-intuitive statement that "law school grades are largely not a result of hard work or talent".

Even if it's not the case, I'm an arrogant, incorrigible ass for assuming that law school grading is merit-based, and being unwilling to readily accept:

ymmv wrote:Please no. We literally just had this fucking thread, and your hopeless 0L naïveté in no way adds to all the hopeless 0L naïveté already on display.


?

Quote for me where I have been arrogant. Please.


Making this thread

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby Ron Don Volante » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:17 pm

this is one of the worst on-topic threads TLS has had in a long while

rehbands
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby rehbands » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:18 pm

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Mal Reynolds
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:19 pm

rehbands wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:If only I would have THOUGHT about the material.


I mean, there's a reason some people get straight As/all Hs.

I spent a few years in management consulting before law school. My firm hired only top grads from top schools- all "smart" people who worked extremely hard. But some people were just better than others- and from what I could tell, it was because they were more thoughtful and got to the "next level shit" that impresses clients. Call it being smarter, or more thoughtful, or more creative, or a better ability to conceptualize problems if you will, but there's something that separates the cream - I don't think that's random at all.


How can I know whether I have the ability to get to next level shit before enrolling in law school?

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jbagelboy
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:20 pm

rehbands wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:If only I would have THOUGHT about the material.


I mean, there's a reason some people get straight As/all Hs.

I spent a few years in management consulting before law school. My firm hired only top grads from top schools- all "smart" people who worked extremely hard. But some people were just better than others- and from what I could tell, it was because they were more thoughtful and got to the "next level shit" that impresses clients. Call it being smarter, or more thoughtful, or more creative, or a better ability to conceptualize problems if you will, but there's something that separates the cream - I don't think that's random at all.


Not relevant or comparable

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:21 pm

rehbands wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:If only I would have THOUGHT about the material.


I mean, there's a reason some people get straight As/all Hs.

I spent a few years in management consulting before law school. My firm hired only top grads from top schools- all "smart" people who worked extremely hard. But some people were just better than others- and from what I could tell, it was because they were more thoughtful and got to the "next level shit" that impresses clients. Call it being smarter, or more thoughtful, or more creative, or a better ability to conceptualize problems if you will, but there's something that separates the cream - I don't think that's random at all.

What does performance in management consulting have to do with someone's ability to take a law school exam? Of course some people are smarter than others, or do a better job at "next level shit" than others, but no one has demonstrated that this correlates to all As on law school exams. What happens when your entire law school class is made up of the cream and they're graded on a curve?

Edited to add: your crim law example is fine, but what about a professor who doesn't care at all about policy and only wants strict application of law to facts? Who cares who "thinks" more deeply in that context?

rehbands
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby rehbands » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:22 pm

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Last edited by rehbands on Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hdunlop
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby hdunlop » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:22 pm

AReasonableMan wrote:There's a scene in Zero Dark 30 where the CIA Director seeks the opinion of one of his agents, Jeremy on whether the Jessica Chastain character is right about bin Laden's location:

CIA Director: What do you think of the girl?
Jeremy: I think she's fucking smart.
CIA Director: We're all smart, Jeremy.


It's worth noting that she was also the only one who figured it out so maybe Jeremy was on to something.

That said lol at everyone arguing you can tell how you'll do on law exams before taking them

edit re above post: yeah of course people who present both sides of an issue are going to do better than people who don't at law school, doing that meaningfully is probably enough to keep you out of the bottom 10% for sure even at top schools. Of course the people who have the most confidence in their ability to do that tend to be the people who are actually worst at it in practice
Last edited by hdunlop on Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Why do people say 1L performance is unpredictable?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:23 pm

rehbands wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Lol dude if you really think most people didn't THINK enough about the material to get in the top 10%, you need to spend more time amongst your classmates.


From the grades we have back so far, the most thoughtful, insightful people that did the best. Some of these people worked very hard, some only worked marginally hard, but they all head a certain depth of thinking that made them different. The most headstrong/blinded by their own views people who refused to listen to other's opinions almost without doubt were unsatisfied with grades.

So basically you're saying that dumb people did worse on exams? That doesn't seem especially controversial.




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