What causes people to strike out at OCI?

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Desert Fox
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby Desert Fox » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:35 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I'm pretty sure DF was dead serious when he said that. There's probably a more professional way to say "fucking weirdo" but the message isn't wrong.


Someone has to tell women that they can't be lawyers if they ugly or fat.

FlamingDragon
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby FlamingDragon » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:43 pm

A number of things, but the most important is fit / personality and personability. A shocking number of people in T14 or even Top 5 schools just cannot carry on basic human conversations and make it painfully apparent to interviewers that they can never be client-facing in any capacity. With other options to hire (for top positions like biglaw), why take a chance on someone so awkward?

People seem surprised when they find out biglaw is a client-facing, interpersonal career. If you are not comfortable or fit for this, then you should self-select out up front rather than wasting the time and capital and then having interviewers do it for you.

Second, OCI at GULC is a very different proposition than at Columbia, Chicago, Harvard, etc.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:42 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Being fat or an ugly woman


I'm curious about this looks thing. Is it statistically relevant?

Is a 6'+, fit man with a disarming smile and a well-fitted suit going to fare better than a shorter, unkempt man who comes from a higher ranked school and has better grades?

Can an attractive blonde who's below median at a T20 school get biglaw?

Any anecdotes?

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hoos89
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby hoos89 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:47 pm

You're kind of straw manning it a bit. I think it's fair to say that, all else being equal, attractive people fare significantly better at OCI. It really shouldn't be that surprising.
Last edited by hoos89 on Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Desert Fox
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:48 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Being fat or an ugly woman


I'm curious about this looks thing. Is it statistically relevant?

Is a 6'+, fit man with a disarming smile and a well-fitted suit going to fare better than a shorter, unkempt man who comes from a higher ranked school and has better grades?

Can an attractive blonde who's below median at a T20 school get biglaw?

Any anecdotes?


I think ugly hurts more than good looks help. Being hot isn't going to magically get you biglaw when you shouldn't otherwise.

But a lot of the people who strike out with good grades are fat and/or ugly.

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sublime
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby sublime » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:48 pm

..

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hoos89
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby hoos89 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:49 pm

sublime wrote:
hoos89 wrote:You're kind of straw manning it a bit. I think it's fair to say that, all else being equal, attractive people fare better at OCI. It really shouldn't be that surprising.



Would agree with this. Seems to be more pronounced with females, however.


Yeah I'd agree with that as well. But then again maybe I'm just not as good at parsing out attractive dudes.

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minnbills
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby minnbills » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:55 pm

withoutapaddle wrote:I see a lot of threads where people say they struck out at T-20 schools and were top 10-15% in their class.What factors cause people to strike out? Are the interviews that difficult?


Most people in that band don't get biglaw jobs, FYI.

For most people it's just the numbers are against them.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:03 pm

minnbills wrote:
withoutapaddle wrote:I see a lot of threads where people say they struck out at T-20 schools and were top 10-15% in their class.What factors cause people to strike out? Are the interviews that difficult?


Most people in that band don't get biglaw jobs, FYI.


Most top 10-15% at T20's don't get biglaw? How do you know.

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sublime
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby sublime » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:13 pm

..

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minnbills
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby minnbills » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:17 pm

sublime wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
minnbills wrote:
withoutapaddle wrote:I see a lot of threads where people say they struck out at T-20 schools and were top 10-15% in their class.What factors cause people to strike out? Are the interviews that difficult?


Most people in that band don't get biglaw jobs, FYI.


Most top 10-15% at T20's don't get biglaw? How do you know.


Most/almost all at mine who wanted it did.


I know because I went to a T20 and only a handful of people in each class get biglaw jobs.

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fats provolone
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby fats provolone » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:19 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:Is a 6'+, fit man with a disarming smile and a well-fitted suit going to fare better

yea i did pretty well even from a non-T14 and my smile is extremely disarming

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sublime
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby sublime » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:20 pm

..

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Desert Fox
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:21 pm

minnbills wrote:
sublime wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
minnbills wrote:
Most people in that band don't get biglaw jobs, FYI.


Most top 10-15% at T20's don't get biglaw? How do you know.


Most/almost all at mine who wanted it did.


I know because I went to a T20 and only a handful of people in each class get biglaw jobs.


unintentional Minnesota shouldn't be T20 trolling

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minnbills
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby minnbills » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:21 pm

sublime wrote:Big differences within the T20. Umn isn't nearly the same as UT, etc.

And iirc you have graduated, I guess this year was better than it has been.


Yeah the current 2L class seems to be doing a lot better. I only know a few 3Ls who have jobs (and I don't know any outside the top 25% who have jobs)

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hoos89
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby hoos89 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:32 pm

sublime wrote:Big differences within the T20. Umn isn't nearly the same as UT, etc.

And iirc you have graduated, I guess this year was better than it has been.


Do you have knowledge of how UMN has done since c/o 2013? Because their last ABA disclosure supports the idea that most people in the 10-15% band wouldn't have biglaw.

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sublime
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby sublime » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:39 pm

..

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star fox
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby star fox » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:53 pm

T20 is flame. It's T14 then UT and Vandy to round out the "T16". After that highest Big Law + Fed Clerk for class of 2013 was UCLA, Fordham, BC, and Notre Dame. It's really more like after "T16" you move to "strong regional" territory.

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Clearly
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby Clearly » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:00 pm

minnbills wrote:
withoutapaddle wrote:I see a lot of threads where people say they struck out at T-20 schools and were top 10-15% in their class.What factors cause people to strike out? Are the interviews that difficult?


Most people in that band don't get biglaw jobs, FYI.

For most people it's just the numbers are against them.

Lol oh

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Cicero76
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby Cicero76 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:47 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
But a lot of the people who strike out with good grades are fat and/or ugly.


Counterpoint: DF got biglaw

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Desert Fox
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:48 pm

Cicero76 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
But a lot of the people who strike out with good grades are fat and/or ugly.


Counterpoint: DF got biglaw


I didn't do so hot for a bro with EE & top 25%.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:53 am

star fox wrote:T20 is flame. It's T14 then UT and Vandy to round out the "T16". After that highest Big Law + Fed Clerk for class of 2013 was UCLA, Fordham, BC, and Notre Dame. It's really more like after "T16" you move to "strong regional" territory.


I thought after UT and Vandy were already in "strong regional" territory. T20 is just to differentiate UCLA from "T1". And there's a difference.

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withoutapaddle
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby withoutapaddle » Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:47 am

I never realized how hard it would be to get a job out of the T-14 until I started looking at B school. Outside the top 10 business schools you better have almost a full ride or you shouldn't go.

So looking at it like this. I would never attened the 30th ranked MBA program, which means I should probably never attend the 30th ranked law school for job prospects. The scariest thing to me is signing a note for $175,000 for a 15% chance at big law (Paying back my debt, saving for retirement, paying bills).

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:44 am

withoutapaddle wrote:I never realized how hard it would be to get a job out of the T-14 until I started looking at B school. Outside the top 10 business schools you better have almost a full ride or you shouldn't go.

So looking at it like this. I would never attened the 30th ranked MBA program, which means I should probably never attend the 30th ranked law school for job prospects. The scariest thing to me is signing a note for $175,000 for a 15% chance at big law (Paying back my debt, saving for retirement, paying bills).


Are there even MBA-required jobs? Aren't a vast majority of b-school students people whose companies said "go get an MBA so we can justify your promotion to our shareholders, don't worry, we'll pay for it"

Do people go K-MBA planning on landing big-corp? I don't think law school and business school are comparable.

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Re: What causes people to strike out at OCI?

Postby FSK » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:47 am

I go to GW, and I saw a LOT of luck involved. Saw a number of 4.0/IP kids under perform, and just top 15% way over perform. But we're not even a strong regional (that crown goes to the Flaw Center), so take it for what you will.




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