Do not pay 300k to have my life

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loomy78
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby loomy78 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:02 am

JohannDeMann wrote:What do you do to pass your days now?


apply for jobs that i haven't had any luck with. hustle to pay rent.

i need a plan for a different career but i have no skills and/or direction. i've thought of learning how to code or commercial real estate, but i can't see it. i was always set on going to law school before i found this site and before i realized how much being a lawyer supposedly sucks.

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Desert Fox
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby Desert Fox » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:09 am

Join the Clinton campaign. Not flame. With the Masters in Enviro + connects you'll actually have a shot at getting a job somewhere.

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LeDique
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby LeDique » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:12 am

Total Litigator wrote:
LeDique wrote:How many times can I get federal loans disbursed, but drop out before tuition has to be paid before the federal government stops giving me money?


No need to drop out. There's actually no limit to how much money the government will give you. Personally, I have 2 law degrees, 3 masters, two PhD's, and I've never worked a day in my life. And those summer abroads and semesters at sea just too much fun.


Yea there is. If I drop out, all of that tuition money can go straight into my pocket. We're talking like an extra $40k/semester by dropping out.

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loomy78
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby loomy78 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:15 am

Desert Fox wrote:Join the Clinton campaign. Not flame. With the Masters in Enviro + connects you'll actually have a shot at getting a job somewhere.


good idea. i will look into it if i continue no jerb pwned

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby JohannDeMann » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:19 am

I know nothing about your field but I imagine most of the jobs are in dc. Do you live there?

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loomy78
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby loomy78 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:20 am

yes

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby JohannDeMann » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:42 am

Have you tried networking with people that technically aren't hiring but do the shit you'd want to do? Like are there people who do what you want to do but they just never hire or does what you want to do not exist at all. Anyways - it's really basic and dumb advice but I would try reaching out to people that have jobs you like and just ask them what they would do if they were you or if they have any tips for getting to where you want to be/ any agencies you can volunteer for dumb shit like that. Sorry I can't be more helpful but that's all I got.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:00 am

I don't understand how you can struggle to get a job with a 4.0. Just go find a job consulting for something. You don't need to know anything for those jobs, and I hear they pay well with decent hours.

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twenty
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby twenty » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:05 am

LeDique wrote:Yea there is. If I drop out, all of that tuition money can go straight into my pocket. We're talking like an extra $40k/semester by dropping out.


Don't you have to immediately pay that back? I'd imagine that's a super easy way to get busted for fraud.

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loomy78
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby loomy78 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:46 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:I don't understand how you can struggle to get a job with a 4.0. Just go find a job consulting for something. You don't need to know anything for those jobs, and I hear they pay well with decent hours.


what kind of consulting? my UG is in "international studies" no econ

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:59 am

loomy78 wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:I don't understand how you can struggle to get a job with a 4.0. Just go find a job consulting for something. You don't need to know anything for those jobs, and I hear they pay well with decent hours.


what kind of consulting? my UG is in "international studies" no econ


Any consulting that will take you. Often times they don't require the relevant major. Management consulting comes to mind. I don't know if they require a specific major, but you throw a 4.0 and 'em and they'll very likely shoot you an interview. Bonus pointsi f your UG is preftigious.

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180asBreath
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby 180asBreath » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:11 am

10 years after deciding to go to Law School:

Years 1-3: Amass $150k in debt (assuming good scholly)
Years 4-10: Amass ~$2 million in earnings (assuming biglaw)

10 years after not going to Law School:

Years 1-3: Work $40k job
Years 4-6: Work $60k job
Years 7-10: Work $80k job
Years 1-10: Amass $620k in earnings

Oh, in biglaw you average 60 hours of high stress work a week compared to 40-50 "leisurely" hours of your non-law job? But you made 3x as much while working 3 fewer years?

Sometimes we need perspective...
Last edited by 180asBreath on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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loomy78
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby loomy78 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:14 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:
loomy78 wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:I don't understand how you can struggle to get a job with a 4.0. Just go find a job consulting for something. You don't need to know anything for those jobs, and I hear they pay well with decent hours.


what kind of consulting? my UG is in "international studies" no econ


Any consulting that will take you. Often times they don't require the relevant major. Management consulting comes to mind. I don't know if they require a specific major, but you throw a 4.0 and 'em and they'll very likely shoot you an interview. Bonus pointsi f your UG is preftigious.


i think this is very hard to get when not attending on campus career events with consulting companies.

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UnicornHunter
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby UnicornHunter » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:28 am

180asBreath wrote:10 years after deciding to go to Law School:

Years 1-3: Amass $150k in debt (assuming good scholly)
Years 4-10: Amass ~$2 million in earnings (assuming biglaw)

10 years after not going to Law School:

Years 1-3: Work $40k job
Years 4-6: Work $60k job
Years 7-10: Work $80k job
Years 1-10: Amass $640k in earnings

Oh, in biglaw you average 60 hours of high stress work a week compared to 40-50 "leisurely" hours of your non-law job? But you made 3x as much while working 3 fewer years?

Sometimes we need perspective...


Yea, if we ignore taxes, interest, uncertainty, and the fact that the average associate lasts 3 years in biglaw it seems like a pretty sweet gig.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:47 pm

180asBreath wrote:10 years after deciding to go to Law School:

Years 1-3: Amass $150k in debt (assuming good scholly)
Years 4-10: Amass ~$2 million in earnings (assuming biglaw)

10 years after not going to Law School:

Years 1-3: Work $40k job
Years 4-6: Work $60k job
Years 7-10: Work $80k job
Years 1-10: Amass $640k in earnings

Oh, in biglaw you average 60 hours of high stress work a week compared to 40-50 "leisurely" hours of your non-law job? But you made 3x as much while working 3 fewer years?

Sometimes we need perspective...


Image

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180asBreath
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby 180asBreath » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:51 pm

TheUnicornHunter wrote:
180asBreath wrote:10 years after deciding to go to Law School:

Years 1-3: Amass $150k in debt (assuming good scholly)
Years 4-10: Amass ~$2 million in earnings (assuming biglaw)

10 years after not going to Law School:

Years 1-3: Work $40k job
Years 4-6: Work $60k job
Years 7-10: Work $80k job
Years 1-10: Amass $640k in earnings

Oh, in biglaw you average 60 hours of high stress work a week compared to 40-50 "leisurely" hours of your non-law job? But you made 3x as much while working 3 fewer years?

Sometimes we need perspective...


Yea, if we ignore taxes, interest, uncertainty, and the fact that the average associate lasts 3 years in biglaw it seems like a pretty sweet gig.


Oh, you don't have to pay taxes on your earnings from $40k/$60k/$80k jobs?
There's no uncertainty in non-biglaw jobs?

Most last 3 years because they want to leave after 3 years. Let's not act like there is a employee review at the three-year mark that over half of associates get fired after.

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ymmv
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby ymmv » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:52 pm

180asBreath wrote:
TheUnicornHunter wrote:
180asBreath wrote:10 years after deciding to go to Law School:

Years 1-3: Amass $150k in debt (assuming good scholly)
Years 4-10: Amass ~$2 million in earnings (assuming biglaw)

10 years after not going to Law School:

Years 1-3: Work $40k job
Years 4-6: Work $60k job
Years 7-10: Work $80k job
Years 1-10: Amass $640k in earnings

Oh, in biglaw you average 60 hours of high stress work a week compared to 40-50 "leisurely" hours of your non-law job? But you made 3x as much while working 3 fewer years?

Sometimes we need perspective...


Yea, if we ignore taxes, interest, uncertainty, and the fact that the average associate lasts 3 years in biglaw it seems like a pretty sweet gig.


Oh, you don't have to pay taxes on your earnings from $40k/$60k/$80k jobs?
There's no uncertainty in non-biglaw jobs?

Most last 3 years because they want to leave after 3 years. Let's not act like there is a employee review at the three-year mark that over half of associates get fired after.


Thanks for your insightful contributions to this thread.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:54 pm

180asBreath wrote:
TheUnicornHunter wrote:Yea, if we ignore taxes, interest, uncertainty, and the fact that the average associate lasts 3 years in biglaw it seems like a pretty sweet gig.


Oh, you don't have to pay taxes on your earnings from $40k/$60k/$80k jobs?
There's no uncertainty in non-biglaw jobs?

Most last 3 years because they want to leave after 3 years. Let's not act like there is a employee review at the three-year mark that over half of associates get fired after.


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Cogburn87
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby Cogburn87 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:21 pm

180asBreath wrote:
Oh, you don't have to pay taxes on your earnings from $40k/$60k/$80k jobs?
There's no uncertainty in non-biglaw jobs?

Most last 3 years because they want to leave after 3 years. Let's not act like there is a employee review at the three-year mark that over half of associates get fired after.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby JohannDeMann » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:49 am

180asBreath wrote:
TheUnicornHunter wrote:
180asBreath wrote:10 years after deciding to go to Law School:

Years 1-3: Amass $150k in debt (assuming good scholly)
Years 4-10: Amass ~$2 million in earnings (assuming biglaw)

10 years after not going to Law School:

Years 1-3: Work $40k job
Years 4-6: Work $60k job
Years 7-10: Work $80k job
Years 1-10: Amass $640k in earnings

Oh, in biglaw you average 60 hours of high stress work a week compared to 40-50 "leisurely" hours of your non-law job? But you made 3x as much while working 3 fewer years?

Sometimes we need perspective...


Yea, if we ignore taxes, interest, uncertainty, and the fact that the average associate lasts 3 years in biglaw it seems like a pretty sweet gig.


Oh, you don't have to pay taxes on your earnings from $40k/$60k/$80k jobs?
There's no uncertainty in non-biglaw jobs?

Most last 3 years because they want to leave after 3 years. Let's not act like there is a employee review at the three-year mark that over half of associates get fired after.


How many days in biglaw have you worked?

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EvergreenStateLady
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby EvergreenStateLady » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:19 am

sublime wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:If you don't think of or know a better way to make six figures than law school, you are most likely dumb, unoriginal, and no fun to be around. Fuck this law business.



I would love to hear all the ways a 26 yo can make that


I doubt any of them make six figures at age 26 but Software Developer is one job people in my home town of Seattle usually go for because the hours are usually great and the work environment can be a ton of fun or at least not terrible depending on where you work. Also it seems like the job market hasn't been over saturated yet. The average pay for Software Developer II is around 82,000 but for someone three years out of college it's probably closer to 70,000.

http://www1.salary.com/WA/Seattle/Softw ... alary.html

My father is a senior computer systems analyst and they also make good money though usually not quite as good as software developers. He didn't want to go too far up in management because he still wanted to work on projects rather than just manage. When I looked up the pay he could have been eventually making in management it was mid $200,000's. Instead he's makes more like starting BigLaw salary of 160K and hit his salary cap years ago though he has increased bonus potential. But I think his job is much less stressful than someone working BigLaw.

If anyone wants to make good money but thinks law isn't for them then software developer or computer systems analyst - which is advanced IT - are both good paths to making good money and not hating work. I hear that engineering is also a good path to earning good money not long out of undergrad. I'm certain there are other good paying jobs but I don't know what they are other than business. Don't know much about business school.

I don't feel that law is a bad choice for everyone. I've met lawyers who really love or like their jobs. But there is definitely a big risk involved with paying so much money to go to school for something you may or may not end up enjoying. That's why not paying anything or paying very little is usually the best choice.

If you get into a PhD program in an area of science they will usually pay you to go to grad school, albeit not very well. You still could end up wasting a few years of your life towards something you end up hating while being some professors bitch but at least you aren't paying a ton of money to do it. Job market sucks for anyone wanting to become a research professor but there are other good jobs available in certain PhD fields but not all.

I hear that Doctor is a job that pays well but you have to go through complete hell during medical school and take out large debts. But I hear that job prospects are generally really good for people just out of med school. But most doctors have very stressful jobs except for in a few areas of medicine. Just like law you are going to be taking out huge loans to do something that you may realize that you hate. It's definitely a big risk.

rubberplant2020
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby rubberplant2020 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:26 am

Most of you guys are assuming that people have actual skills. Most kids graduating now-a-days have never worked and have a liberal arts degree with a shit GPA <3.0. So starting job prospects are more on a temporary basis or working at a car place.

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UnicornHunter
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby UnicornHunter » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:45 am

rubberplant2020 wrote:Most of you guys are assuming that people have actual skills. Most kids graduating now-a-days have never worked and have a liberal arts degree with a shit GPA <3.0. So starting job prospects are more on a temporary basis or working at a car place.


Law school isn't going to save the vast majority of these people either, so there's no point going into a debt chasing a ship that's (probably) already sailed.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:47 am

Finding a job with a <3.0 GPA is nigh impossible via regular channels (cold calling, sending resumes, attending career fairs), but it's not impossible to find a job.

Case in point, I have a low low low low GPA. Managed to get a job in a boutique PE firm (not high pay, but it looks fancy on a resume, and there's room for upward mobility) by literally meeting a guy in a bar, and asking to meet him over lunch. Got offered an associate gig by the end of lunch. Granted, my circumstances are very unique, but scour your network.

Company execs still go to the gym, hit up bars, play pick up basketball, etc. Keep your mind open, be friendly and courteous to everybody you meet, and maybe the next dude you hit it off with is in the position to offer you a job. Agree to work for him below market value, with a raise conditional upon your performance.

AReasonableMan
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Re: Do not pay 300k to have my life

Postby AReasonableMan » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:36 pm

re: income and debt - you also have to consider that lawyers are really ethical on taxes compared to the general population. i knew a lot of people growing up who were busted by the irs, no lawyers. also earning a higher income and having higher debt is more stressful (constant need to make a lot of money, much higher chances of being audited, people thinking you're rich and botherimg you, snake oil salesmen pestering you), etc. There are also many more things that need to fall into place for the legal plan to work. The big assumption is you'd assemble 620k in savings without it unless you're leaving a stable job.




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