What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

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mrshibis
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What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby mrshibis » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:10 am

What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:14 am

What do you want to do with the PhD (and/or JD)?

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby TheSpanishMain » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:41 am

Costs: you're in school until you're 40

Benefits: ?

Jchance
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby Jchance » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:50 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:Benefits: ?


You'll prob have more ideas (and authority?) to write about the interdisciplinary stuff

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bjsesq
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby bjsesq » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:52 am

mrshibis wrote:What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

You can get rid of that pesky money you hate so much.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby TheSpanishMain » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:57 am

Jchance wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:Benefits: ?


You'll prob have more ideas (and authority?) to write about the interdisciplinary stuff


I mean, if you want to be an academic you should probably just forget about the jd.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:01 pm

Very few situations where this makes sense

If you have a HYS JD or are order of the coif from a T14, then a Phd in a relevant field (econ/poly sci) from a good program (ivy league + few others) will give you a shot at academia.

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nothingtosee
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby nothingtosee » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:06 pm

Benefit: Not having to leave the world of being a student for over half your life

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:16 pm

Yeah, the only reason to get a PhD (in most fields) is if you want to enter academia in the subject area of the PhD. If you want to teach law school it can be a leg up, though I think mostly because it gives you time to publish (if you can publish without getting the PhD, do that).

The problem with getting a PhD is that getting an academic job is extremely difficult, but spending 6+ years (again, in most fields) getting a PhD means most non-academic employers are going to be very leery of hiring you.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby TheSpanishMain » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:38 pm

Based on post history I think OP is just trying to collect degrees like so many Pokemon

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Br3v
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby Br3v » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:53 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Yeah, the only reason to get a PhD (in most fields) is if you want to enter academia in the subject area of the PhD. If you want to teach law school it can be a leg up, though I think mostly because it gives you time to publish (if you can publish without getting the PhD, do that).

The problem with getting a PhD is that getting an academic job is extremely difficult, but spending 6+ years (again, in most fields) getting a PhD means most non-academic employers are going to be very leery of hiring you.


+1 though in some legal fields (econ and history, most notably) it's becoming much more common to have the JD/PhD (I know A. Nony Mouse knows this, just clarifying for OP)

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:If you have a HYS JD or are order of the coif from a T14, then a Phd in a relevant field (econ/poly sci) from a good program (ivy league + few others) will give you a shot at academia.


This is marginally irrelevant. Having the bolded will help of course, but the benefit of the PhD would have the same marginal effect regardless. Unless your point is that only if you have both (HYS/Coif + PhD) do you have a good shot, then you are closer to being correct.

NEdelton1987
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby NEdelton1987 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:06 pm

Br3v wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Yeah, the only reason to get a PhD (in most fields) is if you want to enter academia in the subject area of the PhD. If you want to teach law school it can be a leg up, though I think mostly because it gives you time to publish (if you can publish without getting the PhD, do that).

The problem with getting a PhD is that getting an academic job is extremely difficult, but spending 6+ years (again, in most fields) getting a PhD means most non-academic employers are going to be very leery of hiring you.


+1 though in some legal fields (econ and history, most notably) it's becoming much more common to have the JD/PhD (I know A. Nony Mouse knows this, just clarifying for OP)

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:If you have a HYS JD or are order of the coif from a T14, then a Phd in a relevant field (econ/poly sci) from a good program (ivy league + few others) will give you a shot at academia.


This is marginally irrelevant. Having the bolded will help of course, but the benefit of the PhD would have the same marginal effect regardless. Unless your point is that only if you have both (HYS/Coif + PhD) do you have a good shot, then you are closer to being correct.


An econ PhD adds the most value for someone with a JD. If you want to become a law school professor, a PhD in many disciplines can help you break into legal academia. A PhD would also allow you to enter academia in the academic discipline of your PhD program, but the JD adds little or no value for such a pursuit. A JD/econ PhD provides a special boost for someone looking to become a business school professor, especially if the econ PhD is from a top program such as MIT, Stanford, Harvard, etc.

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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:17 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:Based on post history I think OP is just trying to collect degrees like so many Pokemon


I like how the masters thread wasn't enough and the OP had to take it up a notch

I don't understand why the OP wants a JD. Seems like a pointless stop on the journey from MA to PhD

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Hand
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby Hand » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:30 pm

Life is a path -- never stop learning, OP!

But, seriously: if you want to become an academic, get a PhD. If you want to become a lawyer, get a JD. If you can't decide, you could consider getting a joint degree. But planning to get a PhD after a JD is stupid -- although it might make sense later, for unforeseen reasons, e.g.:

3:AM: What made you become a philosopher?

Ruth Chang: I was working as a lawyer and I decided I wanted a 75% pay cut and to make my own copies.

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Attax
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby Attax » Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:47 pm

I see one benefit - patent prosecution in a bio field, or even a chem field.

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ballcaps
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby ballcaps » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:47 pm

this is lol.

the costs of a phd can be expressed in US dollars, and, in sum, commonly extend into the hundred-thousands place.

the benefits of a phd are precisely the benefits of a phd, likewise for a jd. are you imagining some sort of synergy? jd + phd = jphd? no.

now, of course, in a very limited set of circumstances, employers may prefer that you have both a jd and a phd. however, in this case, too, the benefits of each degree are discrete. both degrees just happen to be valued by the employer for a particular role. obvious example is patent law.

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nothingtosee
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby nothingtosee » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:08 pm

ballcaps wrote: however, in this case, too, the benefits of each degree are discrete.


not sure why u torture ur syntax like that but cant capitalize ur sentences

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UnicornHunter
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby UnicornHunter » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:11 pm

I have a prof that did JD>>>clerkship>>>BigLaw>>>Econ PHD>>>Law Prof

That seems like a pretty reasonable path if you're an academic all-star.

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ballcaps
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby ballcaps » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:22 pm

nothingtosee wrote:
ballcaps wrote: however, in this case, too, the benefits of each degree are discrete.


not sure why u torture ur syntax like that but cant capitalize ur sentences


notwithstanding the off-topic nature of your comment, i want to say, with no irony at all:

Thanks for the feedback.

P.S. Generally letters, not sentences, are capitalized.

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twenty
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby twenty » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:44 am

Attax wrote:I see one benefit - patent prosecution in a bio field, or even a chem field.


Yeah - and I don't know about what PhD/JD hiring looks like at that level, but it seems VERY unlikely given the state of the legal field that an employer would be super down with the fact you had been not practicing for the 4-6 years it took to get your PhD.

hdunlop
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby hdunlop » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:02 am

ballcaps wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:
ballcaps wrote: however, in this case, too, the benefits of each degree are discrete.


not sure why u torture ur syntax like that but cant capitalize ur sentences


notwithstanding the off-topic nature of your comment, i want to say, with no irony at all:

Thanks for the feedback.

P.S. Generally letters, not sentences, are capitalized.



I love this so much. All of the elitism that makes people shy from academia but without the veneer of competence

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SemperLegal
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby SemperLegal » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:51 am

TheUnicornHunter wrote:I have a prof that did JD>>>clerkship>>>BigLaw>>>Econ PHD>>>Law Prof

That seems like a pretty reasonable path if you're an academic all-star.



Or if you find out that you hate being a lawyer too late in life.

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UnicornHunter
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby UnicornHunter » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:56 am

SemperLegal wrote:
TheUnicornHunter wrote:I have a prof that did JD>>>clerkship>>>BigLaw>>>Econ PHD>>>Law Prof

That seems like a pretty reasonable path if you're an academic all-star.



Or if you find out that you hate being a lawyer too late in life.


Well, yeah, but I just took that as a given. Way more people will hate being a lawyer than will have the grades to replicate the guy's path.

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SemperLegal
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby SemperLegal » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:20 am

I could definitely see a reason to do a PHD after a JD, but it would be a few decades down the road, an only for passion (but I would probably do a Master's cause PHD sounds hard). I know a few MDs who went to law school late in life, and two vice versa. Its a very different experience for them, but none regretted it. However, none any any illusions about doing a career afterwards. Its really only one step above those weird Sr citizens who audit UG classes

After the law kills my soul, I would go back and study history, but only because I have some GI bill left and a spouse who could support me. It would be nice to learn something I like, NGAF, and undo some of my regrets from UG (i.e. not taking more "hard" classes that actually teach skills)

None of this is helpful for OP, but I don't think I care.

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UnicornHunter
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Re: What are the costs and benefits of obtaining a PHD after JD

Postby UnicornHunter » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:16 pm

SemperLegal wrote:I could definitely see a reason to do a PHD after a JD, but it would be a few decades down the road, an only for passion (but I would probably do a Master's cause PHD sounds hard). I know a few MDs who went to law school late in life, and two vice versa. Its a very different experience for them, but none regretted it. However, none any any illusions about doing a career afterwards. Its really only one step above those weird Sr citizens who audit UG classes

After the law kills my soul, I would go back and study history, but only because I have some GI bill left and a spouse who could support me. It would be nice to learn something I like, NGAF, and undo some of my regrets from UG (i.e. not taking more "hard" classes that actually teach skills)

None of this is helpful for OP, but I don't think I care.


Yea, OP should just go visit more national parks as far as I'm concerned. Shitty thing about the GI Bill is that it expires 10 years after your last day of active, doesn't it? Or is there some way you can keep the clock running on it?




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