Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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HankBashir
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby HankBashir » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:04 am

Sls17 wrote:
HankBashir wrote:
Disclaimer: I utterly despise SLS's grading system.


Why?



Our binary grading system with the hard cap discourages actually giving a shit. After all, what's the point? Work your ass off and be one outside of the top third. Might as well not have done shit at all. Probably gonna wind up with the same grade. Shit, this follows even if you get a H.

If we had an internal/external system where there were two sets of a grades, an internal that only you and the professor knows, and a different one that showed on your transcript, I'd be more cool with it, but we don't.

rehbands
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby rehbands » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:37 am

Yukos wrote:I mean, a few people every year get a couple book prizes during 1L fall, so it wouldn't be that crazy. Exam taking is a skill, and it makes sense that if you're good enough at it to get a book prize in one class you might be good enough to get it in multiple classes (not to take anything away from these people, who are obviously incredibly smart in addition to being good exam takers).


I came across this guy's CV when doing a google search: https://s3.amazonaws.com/production.sch ... 1344812198

17 total book prizes by graduation, 4 in 1L Autumn. Obviously, he's a tremendous outlier, but I bet there are several people with 4 or 5 Hs and multiple book prizes. Grades tend to cluster.

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koalacity
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby koalacity » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:15 pm

rehbands wrote:
Yukos wrote:I mean, a few people every year get a couple book prizes during 1L fall, so it wouldn't be that crazy. Exam taking is a skill, and it makes sense that if you're good enough at it to get a book prize in one class you might be good enough to get it in multiple classes (not to take anything away from these people, who are obviously incredibly smart in addition to being good exam takers).


I came across this guy's CV when doing a google search: https://s3.amazonaws.com/production.sch ... 1344812198

17 total book prizes by graduation, 4 in 1L Autumn. Obviously, he's a tremendous outlier, but I bet there are several people with 4 or 5 Hs and multiple book prizes. Grades tend to cluster.

:shock:

Instinctive
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby Instinctive » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:04 pm

rehbands wrote:
Yukos wrote:I mean, a few people every year get a couple book prizes during 1L fall, so it wouldn't be that crazy. Exam taking is a skill, and it makes sense that if you're good enough at it to get a book prize in one class you might be good enough to get it in multiple classes (not to take anything away from these people, who are obviously incredibly smart in addition to being good exam takers).


I came across this guy's CV when doing a google search: https://s3.amazonaws.com/production.sch ... 1344812198

17 total book prizes by graduation, 4 in 1L Autumn. Obviously, he's a tremendous outlier, but I bet there are several people with 4 or 5 Hs and multiple book prizes. Grades tend to cluster.


1. There are definitely people with 4 or 5 Hs.

2. There are definitely people with multiple book prizes.

I don't know of anyone yet with both 1 and 2. Which is interesting.

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Sls17
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby Sls17 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:14 pm

Instinctive wrote:
rehbands wrote:
Yukos wrote:I mean, a few people every year get a couple book prizes during 1L fall, so it wouldn't be that crazy. Exam taking is a skill, and it makes sense that if you're good enough at it to get a book prize in one class you might be good enough to get it in multiple classes (not to take anything away from these people, who are obviously incredibly smart in addition to being good exam takers).


I came across this guy's CV when doing a google search: https://s3.amazonaws.com/production.sch ... 1344812198

17 total book prizes by graduation, 4 in 1L Autumn. Obviously, he's a tremendous outlier, but I bet there are several people with 4 or 5 Hs and multiple book prizes. Grades tend to cluster.


1. There are definitely people with 4 or 5 Hs.

2. There are definitely people with multiple book prizes.

I don't know of anyone yet with both 1 and 2. Which is interesting.


Starting to casually panic about my fall grades.

Instinctive
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby Instinctive » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:29 pm

Sls17 wrote:
Instinctive wrote:
rehbands wrote:
Yukos wrote:I mean, a few people every year get a couple book prizes during 1L fall, so it wouldn't be that crazy. Exam taking is a skill, and it makes sense that if you're good enough at it to get a book prize in one class you might be good enough to get it in multiple classes (not to take anything away from these people, who are obviously incredibly smart in addition to being good exam takers).


I came across this guy's CV when doing a google search: https://s3.amazonaws.com/production.sch ... 1344812198

17 total book prizes by graduation, 4 in 1L Autumn. Obviously, he's a tremendous outlier, but I bet there are several people with 4 or 5 Hs and multiple book prizes. Grades tend to cluster.


1. There are definitely people with 4 or 5 Hs.

2. There are definitely people with multiple book prizes.

I don't know of anyone yet with both 1 and 2. Which is interesting.


Starting to casually panic about my fall grades.


There are also a lot of people with no Hs. There are also quite a few with only 1. There aren't that many people with book prizes overall (per section, there should be about 10 total).


Also, we all go to Stanford. So unless you're gunning hard for SCOTUS feeder clerkship or Bristow or whatever, you're gonna be fine and you can chill out a bit.

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Yukos
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby Yukos » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Don't compare yourself to people with multiple book prizes first quarter. Aaron Tang clerked for the Supreme Court, as will quite a few people who got multiple book prizes fall 1L. Unless you really had your heart set on a SCOTUS clerkship, lack of those kinds of other-worldly grades will not hurt you in the slightest (and I'm sure there are people every year who stumble upfront and end up SCOTUS anyway).

If you are disappointed with your grades, talk to your professors about what you could've done better. They'll be honest. Also I think it gets easier as you go because people burn out (especially if you're competing with 2Ls and 3Ls), so if you stay hungry you'll have a big advantage.

And always remember you're at Stanford--you're gonna get a job, and it's probably going to be a great one.

Varooom
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby Varooom » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:20 pm

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Last edited by Varooom on Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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WashingtonIrving
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby WashingtonIrving » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:15 pm

Instinctive wrote:1. There are definitely people with 4 or 5 Hs.

2. There are definitely people with multiple book prizes.

I don't know of anyone yet with both 1 and 2. Which is interesting.


4/5 H without multiple book prizes is unsurprising. Multiple book prizes without 4/5 H sounds a little strange. Seems like a sign of poor time management/over-studying for a few classes and neglecting other ones. Or maybe it's just an indication that grades, even book prizes, really are somewhat arbitrary.

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WashingtonIrving
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby WashingtonIrving » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:17 pm

Varooom wrote:Off-topic question: Where might one purchase an SLS shirt or sweatshirt or something of that nature?


SLA (the Stanford Law Association) has apparel sales a couple times per quarter. As far as I know, there isn't anywhere that sells SLS gear on a regular basis. The bookstore definitely has nothing. The student store might, I haven't checked.

Instinctive
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby Instinctive » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:52 pm

WashingtonIrving wrote:
Instinctive wrote:1. There are definitely people with 4 or 5 Hs.

2. There are definitely people with multiple book prizes.

I don't know of anyone yet with both 1 and 2. Which is interesting.


4/5 H without multiple book prizes is unsurprising. Multiple book prizes without 4/5 H sounds a little strange. Seems like a sign of poor time management/over-studying for a few classes and neglecting other ones. Or maybe it's just an indication that grades, even book prizes, really are somewhat arbitrary.


I'd posit the latter is a result of incredibly intelligent people simply not studying very hard. Then they excel at the subjects they liked and/or have a previous affinity for and get by in the other ones. I'm actually less surprised by 2 book prizes and then all Ps than I am by all Hs with no books.

There are a number of people who chose Stanford because you don't have to study a ton and care only about grades. It's not really the least bit surprising that those people do really well at what they like and blow off the rest. :shrug: Just one theory.

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HankBashir
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby HankBashir » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:59 pm

WashingtonIrving wrote:
Varooom wrote:Off-topic question: Where might one purchase an SLS shirt or sweatshirt or something of that nature?


SLA (the Stanford Law Association) has apparel sales a couple times per quarter. As far as I know, there isn't anywhere that sells SLS gear on a regular basis. The bookstore definitely has nothing. The student store might, I haven't checked.


There is some law school gear here: http://store.stanford.edu/collections/grad

stttanford
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby stttanford » Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:30 am

yo what do you all think of the Fed Lit grading scheme that makes the cut and quality of your suit/firmness of your handshake equal to a 5 credit doctrinal?

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Sls17
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby Sls17 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:33 pm

stttanford wrote:yo what do you all think of the Fed Lit grading scheme that makes the cut and quality of your suit/firmness of your handshake equal to a 5 credit doctrinal?


Yeah actually can someone explain what is up with Fed Lit grading because I don't get it

hdunlop
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby hdunlop » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:20 pm

My understanding is

One 2-credit grade for both written briefs (four really, 2x draft and re-write)
One 1-credit grade for both oral arguments
One 1-credit grade for the rest (attendance, participation, research assignments, brief outlines, handshake and spit-polished shoes)

Putting a curve on the last one works seems pretty lol but I'm not as worried as the above poster about a dead fish handshake so might as well gun hard for it

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koalacity
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby koalacity » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:10 pm

hdunlop wrote:My understanding is

One 2-credit grade for both written briefs (four really, 2x draft and re-write)
One 1-credit grade for both oral arguments
One 1-credit grade for the rest (attendance, participation, research assignments, brief outlines, handshake and spit-polished shoes)

Putting a curve on the last one works seems pretty lol but I'm not as worried as the above poster about a dead fish handshake so might as well gun hard for it

So we don't get any grades for FedLit at the end of winter quarter?

I miss LRW (relative to FedLit, that is).

hdunlop
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby hdunlop » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:45 pm

Yeah, my understanding is the two-credit Fed Lit Coursework spot chills empty on our transcript until June and fills in at that time with a grade for both terms' papers. The two one-credit spots are in the spring and are hilariously named, "Methods" (oral) and "Practice" (handshake).

Kimikho
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby Kimikho » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:50 pm

Good thing judges and firms count Hs in terms of credit hours, not just the raw number of Hs you have!

(sarcasm)

hdunlop
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby hdunlop » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:15 pm

I think the goal is to actually give us more opportunities to get them, which is why I'm working on what I like to call my "class prize handshake."

Julius
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby Julius » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:37 pm

hdunlop wrote:My understanding is

One 2-credit grade for both written briefs (four really, 2x draft and re-write)
One 1-credit grade for both oral arguments
One 1-credit grade for the rest (attendance, participation, research assignments, brief outlines, handshake and spit-polished shoes)

Putting a curve on the last one works seems pretty lol but I'm not as worried as the above poster about a dead fish handshake so might as well gun hard for it


Is this new this year?

I took it a few years back and it was 2 + 2 but you either got 2 Hs or 2Ps. Which meant FedLit was effectively worth double any other course you took. Seems like they changed a bad system for the worse, though it might be a way to spread out some Hs.

Kimikho
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby Kimikho » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:15 pm

hdunlop wrote:I think the goal is to actually give us more opportunities to get them, which is why I'm working on what I like to call my "class prize handshake."


Still makes fed lit (4 credits) worth 3x more than evidence (5 credits)

I'd be comfortable with this if they provided like "total credit hours of H" and "total credit hours" at the bottom of our transcripts or something.

Kimikho
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby Kimikho » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:13 pm


Instinctive
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby Instinctive » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:31 pm

Kimikho wrote:
hdunlop wrote:I think the goal is to actually give us more opportunities to get them, which is why I'm working on what I like to call my "class prize handshake."


Still makes fed lit (4 credits) worth 3x more than evidence (5 credits)

I'd be comfortable with this if they provided like "total credit hours of H" and "total credit hours" at the bottom of our transcripts or something.


If we had a weighted GPA, sure. But what really happens is employers count H's, and now we have a shot at two more.

Even if it did count for more...shouldn't it? FedLit seems like one of the few things we do that lawyers would actually do.

Kimikho
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby Kimikho » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:39 pm

It seems weird to curve professionalism, especially considering professionalism is something that can come out through references and interviewing better. It seems more strange that it should be equal to evidence. And it seems more strange that it isn't mandatory pass--it isn't mandatory that we pass professionalism. What does that say about SLS?

Given that 70% of students will have a P in it, what does that say about their ability to interview and work? Especially for people with less WE, I think it could be more damaging than helpful. I would give up the chance for another H to avoid having to explain a P in professionalism on my transcript.

Instinctive
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Re: Stanford c/o 2017ers taking Questions!

Postby Instinctive » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:56 pm

Kimikho wrote:It seems weird to curve professionalism, especially considering professionalism is something that can come out through references and interviewing better. It seems more strange that it should be equal to evidence. And it seems more strange that it isn't mandatory pass--it isn't mandatory that we pass professionalism. What does that say about SLS?

Given that 70% of students will have a P in it, what does that say about their ability to interview and work? Especially for people with less WE, I think it could be more damaging than helpful. I would give up the chance for another H to avoid having to explain a P in professionalism on my transcript.


I disagree again. Some people here are absolutely not professional. Also, have we confirmed the professionalism part is curved? Would be interesting if it was not.

I'm K-JD, and I don't buy the less WE issue. You should still know how to act professionally. That means not being on your phone or laptop in meetings. It means dressing professionally for oral arguments. Meeting all deadlines. Participating appropriately but not being the office asshole who dominates a conversation and nobody wants to work with.

It also assumes employers do more than five transcripts a cursory glance to see certain classes are there and then count H's. Not sure it's accurate to assume they do more than that.




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