Exam- forgot to take a stance Forum

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iliketurtles123

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Exam- forgot to take a stance

Post by iliketurtles123 » Fri May 16, 2014 4:15 pm

My exam was basically "what claims can arise and how likely are they to succeed?"

I think I did a great job showing both sides. However, I was out of time and didn't take a stance. I did, throughout, say things like "this is not a strong argument" or whatever but didn't include that for every argument and didn't conclude anything.


How much will this hurt?

kaiser

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Re: Exam- forgot to take a stance

Post by kaiser » Fri May 16, 2014 4:22 pm

Likely not much if you really fleshed out the analysis well. The actual conclusion you reach is by far the least important thing

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SemperLegal

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Re: Exam- forgot to take a stance

Post by SemperLegal » Fri May 16, 2014 4:25 pm

In 1l classes I never really reach a stance unless I am 100% sure I know what the professor wants me to say. They all just assume that its plainly obvious which side is right and that I was agreeing with them.

Never hurt me any.

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jumpin munkey

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Re: Exam- forgot to take a stance

Post by jumpin munkey » Fri May 16, 2014 6:05 pm

Could hurt, but it likely won't. You should normally try to take a stance (just ending with "P will say x, D will say y" is lame) but even professors who specifically say that they want a conclusion aren't giving a lot of points for it.

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First Offense

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Re: Exam- forgot to take a stance

Post by First Offense » Fri May 16, 2014 6:37 pm

If you try, you can spend the entire ~month waiting for grades thinking about shit you could and couldn't have done, and wondering how it will hurt/help your grade. Just play it cool, bro/sis.

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hichvichwoh

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Re: Exam- forgot to take a stance

Post by hichvichwoh » Fri May 16, 2014 8:12 pm

anecdote: I made the same mistake, got caught up in analysis and never reached any conclusions on any issues across multiple issue spotters. Still got an A

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jbagelboy

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Re: Exam- forgot to take a stance

Post by jbagelboy » Fri May 16, 2014 8:37 pm

Unless your professor said prior to the exam, "you have to take a side," it won't matter at all. Professors want to see how you think and reflect on both sides, not how well you can advance one side. Law school exams are typically more like memos than briefs. Generally, taking a strong stance for one side or the other may even be a negative - you aren't supposed to "want" one side to win, you are supposed to be sharply analytical.

Constitutional law is the only class where I think "Taking a side" can be important, because there is usually one position that as a matter of "positive law" is objectively better. Also the questions are usually phrased like, both A and B have filed for summary judgment, who do you grant it to and why? That's the only class where I made sure to "take a stance."

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beepboopbeep

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Re: Exam- forgot to take a stance

Post by beepboopbeep » Fri May 16, 2014 8:54 pm

jbagelboy wrote:Unless your professor said prior to the exam, "you have to take a side," it won't matter at all. Professors want to see how you think and reflect on both sides, not how well you can advance one side. Law school exams are typically more like memos than briefs. Generally, taking a strong stance for one side or the other may even be a negative - you aren't supposed to "want" one side to win, you are supposed to be sharply analytical.

Constitutional law is the only class where I think "Taking a side" can be important, because there is usually one position that as a matter of "positive law" is objectively better. Also the questions are usually phrased like, both A and B have filed for summary judgment, who do you grant it to and why? That's the only class where I made sure to "take a stance."
Property definitely has right answers as well. Either you correctly identified the future interest or you didn't.

But yea, OP, I wouldn't worry about it at all. People sweat the formulaic stuff way too much. Someone in legal writing this quarter was freaking out because they didn't IRAC one minor section of their brief... I haven't used that shit a single time since the first week of the year. Hasn't hurt one bit.

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jbagelboy

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Re: Exam- forgot to take a stance

Post by jbagelboy » Fri May 16, 2014 8:59 pm

beepboopbeep wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Unless your professor said prior to the exam, "you have to take a side," it won't matter at all. Professors want to see how you think and reflect on both sides, not how well you can advance one side. Law school exams are typically more like memos than briefs. Generally, taking a strong stance for one side or the other may even be a negative - you aren't supposed to "want" one side to win, you are supposed to be sharply analytical.

Constitutional law is the only class where I think "Taking a side" can be important, because there is usually one position that as a matter of "positive law" is objectively better. Also the questions are usually phrased like, both A and B have filed for summary judgment, who do you grant it to and why? That's the only class where I made sure to "take a stance."
Property definitely has right answers as well. Either you correctly identified the future interest or you didn't.

But yea, OP, I wouldn't worry about it at all. People sweat the formulaic stuff way too much. Someone in legal writing this quarter was freaking out because they didn't IRAC one minor section of their brief... I haven't used that shit a single time since the first week of the year. Hasn't hurt one bit.
if the answer to your property exam could be determined by identifying a future interest, then you have a pretty TTT class lol. usually the first step is applying the elemental rules, be they common law tests for possession, running covenants, AP, ect., or the estates stuff, or takings doctrine, to the fact pattern, and then the ultimate analysis turns on some policy dribble because the holding splits across jurisdictions

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hichvichwoh

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Re: Exam- forgot to take a stance

Post by hichvichwoh » Fri May 16, 2014 9:01 pm

Tax is another class where exam questions will often have one exact, correct answer

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beepboopbeep

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Re: Exam- forgot to take a stance

Post by beepboopbeep » Fri May 16, 2014 9:09 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
beepboopbeep wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Unless your professor said prior to the exam, "you have to take a side," it won't matter at all. Professors want to see how you think and reflect on both sides, not how well you can advance one side. Law school exams are typically more like memos than briefs. Generally, taking a strong stance for one side or the other may even be a negative - you aren't supposed to "want" one side to win, you are supposed to be sharply analytical.

Constitutional law is the only class where I think "Taking a side" can be important, because there is usually one position that as a matter of "positive law" is objectively better. Also the questions are usually phrased like, both A and B have filed for summary judgment, who do you grant it to and why? That's the only class where I made sure to "take a stance."
Property definitely has right answers as well. Either you correctly identified the future interest or you didn't.

But yea, OP, I wouldn't worry about it at all. People sweat the formulaic stuff way too much. Someone in legal writing this quarter was freaking out because they didn't IRAC one minor section of their brief... I haven't used that shit a single time since the first week of the year. Hasn't hurt one bit.
if the answer to your property exam could be determined by identifying a future interest, then you have a pretty TTT class lol. usually the first step is applying the elemental rules, be they common law tests for possession, running covenants, AP, ect., or the estates stuff, or takings doctrine, to the fact pattern, and then the ultimate analysis turns on some policy dribble because the holding splits across jurisdictions
Spittin' fire, bagel. Don't you dare insult the majesty of Lior Strahilevitz.

That part of the fact pattern was in New York and we had New York cases for the relevant portion, so there was a definite correct answer. But it was also just one part of the exam, and other parts were pure policy. That's not to say there's no room for policy shit after the outcome analysis, but there's a difference between property where you apply the rules then debate whether the correct outcome is good policy, and torts where you can just debate what the outcome will be. I'm oversimplifying but you know what I mean.

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jbagelboy

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Re: Exam- forgot to take a stance

Post by jbagelboy » Fri May 16, 2014 9:13 pm

beepboopbeep wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
beepboopbeep wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Unless your professor said prior to the exam, "you have to take a side," it won't matter at all. Professors want to see how you think and reflect on both sides, not how well you can advance one side. Law school exams are typically more like memos than briefs. Generally, taking a strong stance for one side or the other may even be a negative - you aren't supposed to "want" one side to win, you are supposed to be sharply analytical.

Constitutional law is the only class where I think "Taking a side" can be important, because there is usually one position that as a matter of "positive law" is objectively better. Also the questions are usually phrased like, both A and B have filed for summary judgment, who do you grant it to and why? That's the only class where I made sure to "take a stance."
Property definitely has right answers as well. Either you correctly identified the future interest or you didn't.

But yea, OP, I wouldn't worry about it at all. People sweat the formulaic stuff way too much. Someone in legal writing this quarter was freaking out because they didn't IRAC one minor section of their brief... I haven't used that shit a single time since the first week of the year. Hasn't hurt one bit.
if the answer to your property exam could be determined by identifying a future interest, then you have a pretty TTT class lol. usually the first step is applying the elemental rules, be they common law tests for possession, running covenants, AP, ect., or the estates stuff, or takings doctrine, to the fact pattern, and then the ultimate analysis turns on some policy dribble because the holding splits across jurisdictions
Spittin' fire, bagel. Don't you dare insult the majesty of Lior Strahilevitz.

That part of the fact pattern was in New York and we had New York cases for the relevant portion, so there was a definite correct answer. Other parts of the exam were pure policy. That's not to say there's no room for policy shit after the outcome analysis, but there's a difference between property where you apply the rules then debate whether the correct outcome is good policy, and torts where you can just debate what the outcome will be. I'm oversimplifying but you know what I mean.
Yea, I know what you mean. You're right, it definitely depends. Obviously if your exam is targeted to a particular jurisdiction then that's a pretty big hint you should be dropping case law/rules from that jurisdiction. We had that in Crim. Whereas my property prof sets every problem in the wonderful common law state of "New Columbia" :).

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Re: Exam- forgot to take a stance

Post by middlemarch » Fri May 16, 2014 9:28 pm

First Offense wrote:If you try, you can spend the entire ~month waiting for grades thinking about shit you could and couldn't have done, and wondering how it will hurt/help your grade. Just play it cool, bro/sis.

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