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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
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Last edited by Wiggly on Fri May 23, 2014 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
I'm pretty sure I hate you.JSWright101 wrote: True. My current expectations of BigLaw are pretty much 80 hours of work per week/7days a week for 365 days a year for 3 to 5 years (if I'm lucky) whereupon I will be unceremoniously drop-kicked and forced to find a much lower paying job while I live off of cat food to assist in servicing my loans. When I get my one date night per six month window with my bf I will be on the phone the entire time. I will be fat/have lost all of my fitness gains (I'm a gym fanatic) from a very irregular sleeping/working out schedule too. I will strangely have time to post on TLS tho but that is from mysterious minutes between the soul crushing monotony. Everyone will talk down to me constantly/be generally rude individuals and all passions/hobbies I have will quickly be extinguished as my personality and habits are irreversibly altered. That's about it.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
I'm not sure why people think TLS posting is a huge time commitment.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
Everything I read sounds spot-on. People respect vacationers and while there may be a call or two, it’s pretty limited. I receive 3 weeks. Also the hours are more like 50 hours and weekend hours are often negligible (often doesn’t mean always).
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
Frankly, it sounds pretty spot-on. It captures everything practicing attorneys are telling us 0L's about Biglaw. long hours, inconsistent work and job insecurity, no time for family or friends, tedious work, getting talked down to constantly, no time to sleep. etc.SeriousLehigh wrote:I'm pretty sure I hate you.JSWright101 wrote: True. My current expectations of BigLaw are pretty much 80 hours of work per week/7days a week for 365 days a year for 3 to 5 years (if I'm lucky) whereupon I will be unceremoniously drop-kicked and forced to find a much lower paying job while I live off of cat food to assist in servicing my loans. When I get my one date night per six month window with my bf I will be on the phone the entire time. I will be fat/have lost all of my fitness gains (I'm a gym fanatic) from a very irregular sleeping/working out schedule too. I will strangely have time to post on TLS tho but that is from mysterious minutes between the soul crushing monotony. Everyone will talk down to me constantly/be generally rude individuals and all passions/hobbies I have will quickly be extinguished as my personality and habits are irreversibly altered. That's about it.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
What is your point? Be prepared what to expect before you take on massive debt expecting a great career and models and bottles. Not everyone is rude or miserable, I work with great people, but we are all under pressure to get out timely, perfect work. People will yell if they lose their patience. Not getting regular sleep is an issue. Working out is possible if you plan, but you can't always do it. You will be canceling plans all the time, it is just the nature of the work.JSWright101 wrote:True. My current expectations of BigLaw are pretty much 80 hours of work per week/7days a week for 365 days a year for 3 to 5 years (if I'm lucky) whereupon I will be unceremoniously drop-kicked and forced to find a much lower paying job while I live off of cat food to assist in servicing my loans. When I get my one date night per six month window with my bf I will be on the phone the entire time. I will be fat/have lost all of my fitness gains (I'm a gym fanatic) from a very irregular sleeping/working out schedule too. I will strangely have time to post on TLS tho but that is from mysterious minutes between the soul crushing monotony. Everyone will talk down to me constantly/be generally rude individuals and all passions/hobbies I have will quickly be extinguished as my personality and habits are irreversibly altered. That's about it.dwil770 wrote:thesealocust wrote:2nd year biglaw associate here: I take 4 weeks per year, and I've never been contacted while on vacation for any reason or seen anybody reschedule a vacation.
The only people I know who don't take 4 weeks per year are the people who take 5 because that's a perk after a certain level of seniority.
Don't know what you're on about.
Come on man if you've been following the recent big law threads it is no surprise that 0Ls think you can't take any vacays whatsoever
I wouldn't count on getting or keeping biglaw either. Not everyone who wants or needs biglaw gets it. Counting on it before you even walk into a class or have an exam is risky for everyone. I would never had taken on the debt for school that other people have done.
Be sarcastic and don't listen if you want. I had similar conversations with Rayiner when he was a student and he argued in favor of debt and biglaw. Now that he was in biglaw, he has a different perspective. Just know what to expect.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
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Last edited by Wiggly on Fri May 23, 2014 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
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Last edited by Wiggly on Fri May 23, 2014 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
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Last edited by Wiggly on Fri May 23, 2014 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- KatyMarie
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
Yeah, not sure where that sarcastic comment came from. Most 0L's I've talked to expect that out of Big Law (if they've spent any time on TLS that is). If anyone I've talked to expects it to be some joy ride, or even "not that bad," they're keeping quiet about it.JSWright101 wrote:I'm not being sarcastic. I sincerely expect that.NYSprague wrote:Be sarcastic and don't listen if you want. I had similar conversations with Rayiner when he was a student and he argued in favor of debt and biglaw. Now that he was in biglaw, he has a different perspective. Just know what to expect.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
At my firm it varies how/when people take vacation. It's generally expected that you'll take some vacation, but as a junior you don't have much control over when. I have a big case that ends in a week, so I'm taking a week's vacation after that, but I've only taken one day since I started in September (including working Christmas Eve and NYE). Some people are nuts and don't take any vacation ever, but if you're not gunning for partner (or even if you are), there's no reason to do that to yourself. When we're on vacation we're generally left alone to the extent possible.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
How far in advance did you know that the week you're planning on would be a good time to take vacation? Is it at all feasible to plan something a few months in advance, or is it more like "Hey, the week after next is looking pretty slack, guess I'll take some time off"?Lincoln wrote:At my firm it varies how/when people take vacation. It's generally expected that you'll take some vacation, but as a junior you don't have much control over when. I have a big case that ends in a week, so I'm taking a week's vacation after that, but I've only taken one day since I started in September (including working Christmas Eve and NYE). Some people are nuts and don't take any vacation ever, but if you're not gunning for partner (or even if you are), there's no reason to do that to yourself. When we're on vacation we're generally left alone to the extent possible.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
I planned my most recent vacation 3 or 4 months in advance, which was probably early but not like, super early. It's definitely not something people plan 6+ months in advance, but at least at my firm it's not a spur of the moment thing either (if anything, I'd say spur of the moment vacationing is frowned upon)
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
I know this isn't about vacation, more to the statement about what OP thought biglaw life was like generally. Maybe this will help explain the reactions. The OP's perspective is not very nuanced (e.g. "never" taking vacation -- I can't imagine many, if any firms, have the workload or pressure to preclude all vacation). It also takes sentiments about biglaw at its worst, combining them into a single image of what biglaw is. Hopefully, this thread helps OP and others get a fuller picture of what it is like.KatyMarie wrote:Yeah, not sure where that sarcastic comment came from. Most 0L's I've talked to expect that out of Big Law (if they've spent any time on TLS that is). If anyone I've talked to expects it to be some joy ride, or even "not that bad," they're keeping quiet about it.JSWright101 wrote:I'm not being sarcastic. I sincerely expect that.NYSprague wrote:Be sarcastic and don't listen if you want. I had similar conversations with Rayiner when he was a student and he argued in favor of debt and biglaw. Now that he was in biglaw, he has a different perspective. Just know what to expect.
Yes, there are 80 hour weeks. Yes, you will cancel plans. Yes, you will go through periods where you don't have time to work out. But none of these things is consistent throughout the duration of your biglaw experience. You learn to adapt. The one thing that is consistent, IMO, is that lawyers tend to be consistently tied to my phone (but then again, so is society these days).
So, just for an example of adapting for my priorities on the workout front, I noticed there is a natural down time at lunch (and another at dinner). I started using that time to play basketball. I play 3x a week at lunch and another sport or lift on the other days. I generally only miss 1 day a week, if that, and I could probably have made that day work if I really wanted to. Other people prioritize other things (e.g., leaving every day at the same time to see a child before bed, eating dinner with a spouse, or going to HH every Thursday and/or Friday). Generally, if you are regular about these things, you can make them work without terrible difficulty.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
A case ending would be a more expected time to take off, and would require less notice to your co-workers. This is especially true if it is a really big case that consumes most of your time (which as you become more senior is less likely). People generally understand that you may take time off at that juncture, at least at my firm, though not everyone necessarily wants to or does. It usually depends on burnout. Of course, if you were on other cases, you would still have to let people on your other cases know you were heading out.ScottRiqui wrote:How far in advance did you know that the week you're planning on would be a good time to take vacation? Is it at all feasible to plan something a few months in advance, or is it more like "Hey, the week after next is looking pretty slack, guess I'll take some time off"?Lincoln wrote:At my firm it varies how/when people take vacation. It's generally expected that you'll take some vacation, but as a junior you don't have much control over when. I have a big case that ends in a week, so I'm taking a week's vacation after that, but I've only taken one day since I started in September (including working Christmas Eve and NYE). Some people are nuts and don't take any vacation ever, but if you're not gunning for partner (or even if you are), there's no reason to do that to yourself. When we're on vacation we're generally left alone to the extent possible.
Obviously, there are ranges for everything. But busy partners tend to give at most a month. Some give no notice to the associates. Most associates tend to give 2-3 months notice, or more (around 6) for something like a honeymoon.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
You expect to work long hours every day with no breaks for three years, lose your health, personality and your friends and then be eating cat food to survive, and you are still going to law school? I have no response to that level of idiocy.KatyMarie wrote:Yeah, not sure where that sarcastic comment came from. Most 0L's I've talked to expect that out of Big Law (if they've spent any time on TLS that is). If anyone I've talked to expects it to be some joy ride, or even "not that bad," they're keeping quiet about it.JSWright101 wrote:I'm not being sarcastic. I sincerely expect that.NYSprague wrote:Be sarcastic and don't listen if you want. I had similar conversations with Rayiner when he was a student and he argued in favor of debt and biglaw. Now that he was in biglaw, he has a different perspective. Just know what to expect.
I bet you are debt financing this education too.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
When I was a summer associate I had a long telephone call with a senior partner to discuss a memo I had written. On the 4th of July. While the partner was ostensibly on "vacation" in a foreign country. The partner's kids occasionally interrupted the call to ask questions.thesealocust wrote:Major holidays are more of a grab bag. On the one hand, nearly everything stops for Christmas, New Years, 4th of July, etc.
That was the moment I found out that I was probably not "partner material."
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
People can and do take their vacations, since its sort of necessary to keep your sanity. Sure, you may get emails, or may have to make a phone call in rare instances, but usually undisturbed if you give enough notice. Most people I know take most if not all vacations, and no one gets guff for doing so. Heard of one partner who discouraged first years from taking vacations, but most people just lol'ed at that sentiment. If there actually is a firm out there where people don't take vacations, or taking your vacation time is discouraged, I pity that firm and feel bad for those who work there.
I started in September, and have only taken 2 days vacation thus far around Christmas time, but I plan to take a week off this summer for a trip, and a week off later in the year for another, with a few three-day weekends thrown in. Don't expect there will be any problem, so long as the people you work with are kept aware of your schedule.
I started in September, and have only taken 2 days vacation thus far around Christmas time, but I plan to take a week off this summer for a trip, and a week off later in the year for another, with a few three-day weekends thrown in. Don't expect there will be any problem, so long as the people you work with are kept aware of your schedule.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
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Last edited by Wiggly on Fri May 23, 2014 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
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Last edited by Wiggly on Fri May 23, 2014 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
It took a very unnuanced reading of other posters threads to conclude what you did. And NYS is one of the most thoughtful and least snarky posters on here, so if he thinks it...JSWright101 wrote: I haven't committed to anything yet (in fact I'm reapplying next year in hopes of big $$$ or HYS with big grants) and it's not like I'm heading towards much atm anyway. This would be worst case scenario and was a bit dramatic but BigLaw does sound like this based on what most people on these forums say.
But it's fine. Call me an idiot. If it boosts your ego today from the pathetic place it must rest then I'm ok with that. I'm sure you have a miserable life as it is so you need to crush others to feel better about yourself and I pity you - so go ahead.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
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Last edited by Wiggly on Fri May 23, 2014 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
During my SA I noticed that a fair number of associates took a vacation. Some overseas, others to the tropics. Vacations at large firms are not scarce. Have to do something with your $$...might as well take a trip.
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
+1JSWright101 wrote:0Ls are idiotic welps that need intellectual beatings from high and mighty TLSers
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Re: So do you NEVER take vacay in BigLaw?
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Last edited by Wiggly on Fri May 23, 2014 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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