Page 1 of 2

Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:34 pm
by GULCsect7
A little about me:


28 years old.

Master's degree in unrelated field.

1st year evening (part time) student.

I have a full time job and go to class four nights a week.

I'm happy to help answer any questions you might have!

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:36 pm
by haus
Given the time pressure that face evening PT students, especially those that are working, how much interaction do you find you have with your classmates?

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:46 pm
by GULCsect7
haus wrote:Given the time pressure that face evening PT students, especially those that are working, how much interaction do you find you have with your classmates?



I would probably have much more time with my classmates if I was a day student, but I feel like I spend a good amount of time with my classmates. We have school-associated social gatherings (SBA happy hours, professor-organized dinners, etc.) maybe 4-5 times a semester, generally after class on nights when classes end at 8:00. In addition to those my classmates are pretty good about inviting the other 1E students to house parties, events with non-law school friends, etc. I also try to get together with classmates in small groups or one-on-one when I can, but that is pretty limited due to the lack of free time. There is also a lot of "bonding" time in the lead up to exams when you get together on weekends for study groups. And we all chat and commiserate before class and during breaks.

There are probably people in the section who hang out with other students a lot more than I do, and there are probably those who don't hang out with other students at all. I know it is challenging for some who are married and have children.

I LOVE my classmates (seriously, there is not a single one I don't enjoy spending time with). They're a very interesting group from very diverse work and personal backgrounds. I think we all get along well due to a kind of esprit de corps that comes from going through a challenging process together. Everyone is very friendly and willing to help each other out. I have been told that this is not the case with the day students, but I don't have any personal experience on which to base that.

By the way, pretty much everyone has a job in addition to law school. Most are full time I think, and some are part time, but I don't think anyone is not working at all.

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:12 pm
by haus
A quick glance at PT programs in the DC area seems to show that the entering classes at several including Georgetown are considerably smaller now than they were 4 years ago. In your experience at Georgetown, do you think this is a healthy size for the program? Specifically, large enough to ensure that the PT students are not overlooked by the school for resources, and class options in later years.

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:41 pm
by helfer snooterbagon
Class of 2011 (Not GULC) evening student grad myself. Keep at it, the lower loan payments are worth all the extra hours.

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:43 pm
by GULCsect7
haus wrote:A quick glance at PT programs in the DC area seems to show that the entering classes at several including Georgetown are considerably smaller now than they were 4 years ago. In your experience at Georgetown, do you think this is a healthy size for the program? Specifically, large enough to ensure that the PT students are not overlooked by the school for resources, and class options in later years.



Good question. I think we were told that we are about half the size of 1E classes in past years. We are at 46 or around there. I was told that one reason for the smaller class size is that they pushed applicants to the evening program who are not working into the full time program rather than put them in the part time program. There was concern that students who do not work were entering the part time program to "game" the system by taking a reduced course load in order to boost their GPA. GULC really wanted to make the part time program for working students only. That's the story they told us, anyway. As part of that change they also made it a lot harder for part time students to switch to the full time program.

Having only been in the program at the current size I can't really compare it to what it might have otherwise been, but I don't see any drawbacks to the current size. If anything it provides more attention from professors since there are fewer students.

I (and my classmates) worry that the reduced number of evening students could lead to fewer evening courses, but I haven't heard of that happening at this point. We are definitely watching it though. As of now GULC has a solid evening class selection, many of which are taught by adjuncts (though, as a 1E, I have not had the chance to take them yet). I assume the adjuncts would not be able to teach during the day so the offerings from adjuncts probably couldn't change. A lot of senior full time students take evening classes, I should note. It would definitely be a major problem if the "core" classes that aren't taught by adjuncts weren't offered at night.

As for resources outside of the classroom they seem to bend over backwards to make them available to us. All of the support offices (career services, registrar, academic advising, etc.) tell us that they are willing to make appointments after hours for evening students. I can generally slip out of the office from time-to-time to meet with administrators on campus during regular hours, so on the rare occasions I have needed to have that kind of meeting I haven't had to make special appointments.

The deans and administrators also come give us the same presentations they give to the day students, just at night after our classes.

Some senior evenings students are involved in the whole range of school activities like journals, moot court, etc. When evening students are involved in those activities they work around their schedules. Being able to do those depends on your workload outside of law school though.

I hope that answers your question. Let me know if not.

Fun historical fact: GULC actually was founded as a night law school.

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:44 pm
by moonman157
When do you find time to study?

What is your course load like? (Can you maybe estimate the number of hours you spend reading outside of class each week)?

How many part-time students switch to full-time?

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:45 pm
by GULCsect7
helfer snooterbagon wrote:Class of 2011 (Not GULC) evening student grad myself. Keep at it, the lower loan payments are worth all the extra hours.


Thanks!

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:52 pm
by GULCsect7
moonman157 wrote:When do you find time to study?

What is your course load like? (Can you maybe estimate the number of hours you spend reading outside of class each week)?

How many part-time students switch to full-time?



I do most of my reading and studying on the weekends. That is the only time I have normally, since I am busy at work during the day and I'm pretty tired after class. (The reason I'm posting now at 11:50 PM on a Saturday instead of at a party or something is that I am nominally doing my contracts reading... but procrastination is getting the better of me at the moment).

The courseload is pretty intense. This year I have had three classes a semester. That means class four nights a week. How many hours I spend reading a week varies on the material, and sometimes I just don't get to all of it. If I had to estimate I would say I read and write for school about 8-12 hours a week split between Saturday and Sunday.

They made it very difficult to switch from part time to full time at GULC, so I am guessing there will be very few from my cohort. In the past there have been quite a few, I've heard.

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:53 pm
by haus
GULCsect7 wrote:I hope that answers your question. Let me know if not.

Fun historical fact: GULC actually was founded as a night law school.

It did, thanks.

I like this historical nugget.

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:11 am
by twenty
Currently on the waitlist for GULC PT after EDing -- If I eventually get in, I'd ideally like to live off campus and take a car to work/class. I understand DC is kind of a rough commute in general, but what is the commute from Virginia -> DC like at 5:30 or so when classes start?

A lot of PT students at GULC I've talked to in the past have mentioned that working full time + part time law school is absurdly difficult and effectively unmanageable. Have you found this to be the case as well, at least for 1E?

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:39 am
by haus
twenty wrote:Currently on the waitlist for GULC PT after EDing -- If I eventually get in, I'd ideally like to live off campus and take a car to work/class. I understand DC is kind of a rough commute in general, but what is the commute from Virginia -> DC like at 5:30 or so when classes start?

For what it is worth, I work in Arlington, and have worked in DC in the past. The start of classes for any of the DC area PT programs are not will situated given the realties of rush hour traffic in the greater DC area. Getting into the city is generally easier than getting out, but I can tell you that on many occasions I have seen 66 inbound towards DC at a standstill in the 4 & 5 o'clock hours.

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:56 am
by GULCsect7
twenty wrote:Currently on the waitlist for GULC PT after EDing -- If I eventually get in, I'd ideally like to live off campus and take a car to work/class. I understand DC is kind of a rough commute in general, but what is the commute from Virginia -> DC like at 5:30 or so when classes start?

A lot of PT students at GULC I've talked to in the past have mentioned that working full time + part time law school is absurdly difficult and effectively unmanageable. Have you found this to be the case as well, at least for 1E?



Evening classes start at 5:45. Driving in downtown DC at that time is really tough because its rush hour. If there is any way for you to take the Metro I would highly recommend that over driving. On the bright side, GULC has a parking garage and I think it is free for students in the evening.

Do you know why the PT GULC students feel it is unmanageable? Is there a particular aspect that has made it unmanageable for them? I have definitely found it to be challenging (occasionally extremely challenging), but I would not say overall unmanageable. There are a lot of pieces to the puzzle of making it work.

And good luck with the admission process. If you want to do PT you're really lucky to be in the DC area. Even if you don't end up going to GULC there are a lot of solid evening programs in the DC area.

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:53 pm
by nagy1
hello! just got accepted to GULC part time! Extremely excited. For people with fulltime jobs, how do they get legal experience during the summers?

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:59 pm
by GULCsect7
nagy1 wrote:hello! just got accepted to GULC part time! Extremely excited. For people with fulltime jobs, how do they get legal experience during the summers?



First of all, congratulations! You must be psyched. I'm obviously biased, but I think the evening students are the best, most helpful group on campus.

So that is a great question, and personally I don't think they do a good enough job of explaining it to applicants. I suppose it depends on what you plan to do after law school, but if you want to go to the firm route (and maybe it is also true of gov't and public interest jobs, too), I think you need to find a way to get some type of legal experience. I'm only in my second semester, but as I see it here are your options:

1) You get enough legal experience at your current job that you stick with it for all four years.
2) You can pick up assignments at your work that would be considered legal in nature.
3) You get permission from your job to take some time off in the summer to do a legal internship/summer associate gig
4) You quit your job at some point in the four years and start doing legal internships/summer associate gigs

Personally I am in the first bucket, but a lot of my classmates are in other situations.

Keep in mind that, depending on what you want to do after law school, there are some ways to spin what you do now to make it legal-related enough. What counts as "legal experience" can vary depending on what you want to do as a lawyer. Also, in DC there are a lot of lawyers who aren't "lawyer lawyers". I'm assuming you live/work in DC now so you probably know what I'm talking about.

There are also some resources on campus you can use to figure out what's the right option for you... career services, advisers, etc.

I might be able to give you some better advice if I knew what you are doing now and what you want to do afterward. Feel free to post more on here. I also think there is some way to send private messages to people on this TLS message board but I'm not exactly sure how (I really only come on here to answer questions on this thread). Feel free to send me a private message if you don't want to post your details on a public message board.

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:02 pm
by GULCsect7
GULCsect7 wrote:
nagy1 wrote:hello! just got accepted to GULC part time! Extremely excited. For people with fulltime jobs, how do they get legal experience during the summers?



First of all, congratulations! You must be psyched. I'm obviously biased, but I think the evening students are the best, most helpful group on campus.

So that is a great question, and personally I don't think they do a good enough job of explaining it to applicants. I suppose it depends on what you plan to do after law school, but if you want to go to the firm route (and maybe it is also true of gov't and public interest jobs, too), I think you need to find a way to get some type of legal experience. I'm only in my second semester, but as I see it here are your options:

1) You get enough legal experience at your current job that you stick with it for all four years.
2) You can pick up assignments at your work that would be considered legal in nature.
3) You get permission from your job to take some time off in the summer to do a legal internship/summer associate gig
4) You quit your job at some point in the four years and start doing legal internships/summer associate gigs

Personally I am in the first bucket, but a lot of my classmates are in other situations.

Keep in mind that, depending on what you want to do after law school, there are some ways to spin what you do now to make it legal-related enough. What counts as "legal experience" can vary depending on what you want to do as a lawyer. Also, in DC there are a lot of lawyers who aren't "lawyer lawyers". I'm assuming you live/work in DC now so you probably know what I'm talking about.

There are also some resources on campus you can use to figure out what's the right option for you... career services, advisers, etc.

I might be able to give you some better advice if I knew what you are doing now and what you want to do afterward. Feel free to post more on here. I also think there is some way to send private messages to people on this TLS message board but I'm not exactly sure how (I really only come on here to answer questions on this thread). Feel free to send me a private message if you don't want to post your details on a public message board.



OK just remembered another thing... They also have some clinics (very few though) which evening students can do in the evenings during the summer. They are geared toward non-profit type work, which is great if you want to do that kind of work but not so great if you don't.

Also, some of my classmates and more senior evenings students have really flexible full time jobs and they can do legal internships in addition to their full time job (they're animals like that). Or they work part time and do internships the remainder of the time.

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 2:45 pm
by j-select
pr

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 2:49 pm
by dowu
How much is this costing you?

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 2:52 pm
by GULCsect7
j-select wrote:thanks for taking questions! does anyone use an ipad with a keyboard dock for taking notes in the part-time division? i will be attending part-time this fall and i am looking for something light that i can take notes on, while using a desktop for more rigorous writing/research. i have looked around tls for in for on this, but most replies seem to be from a few years ago - the ipad has come a long way since then. the ipad mini with a keyboard seems to be a cheaper/lighter option than the mac air.

also, how many students take fewer than three classes their first semester? i am thinking of easing into the fist semester by taking a light load. or, is the course load pretty predetermined?

thanks again for taking the time to share your experience!


I don't see why you couldn't use the iPad with a keyboard. There aren't any rules on how you can take notes so whatever you feel comfortable with is probably your best option. I don't specifically recall people going that route.

Your course schedule first year is set for you, so I do not think you could only take two of the three classes in a semester of your 1E year.

Congrats on joining Section 7!


EDIT: FYI, some (few) professors do not permit electronic devices (including laptops), even for taking notes.

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 2:56 pm
by GULCsect7
dowu wrote:How much is this costing you?



Hi- all of the tuition info is available here:

http://www.law.georgetown.edu/campus-se ... d_Fees.pdf

First year was 10 credits a semester at $1,800 per credit.

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 3:59 pm
by dowu
GULCsect7 wrote:
dowu wrote:How much is this costing you?



Hi- all of the tuition info is available here:

http://www.law.georgetown.edu/campus-se ... d_Fees.pdf

First year was 10 credits a semester at $1,800 per credit.

Gt doesn't give pt schollies?

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 4:16 pm
by mraemorris
First off - thanks for doing this! All the FT students that I've talked to have been great, but it's really nice of you to go out of your way to provide this additional insight to us.

I know transferring to FT is really difficult now, and I'm not planning to do so, but do you know what it would take now? As a contractor I like to always have a backup plan ;)

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 5:49 pm
by haus
dowu wrote:Gt doesn't give pt schollies?

According to their 509, they are not generous with the part time students.

http://law.georgetown.edu/admissions-fi ... Report.pdf

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 6:55 pm
by GULCsect7
mraemorris wrote:First off - thanks for doing this! All the FT students that I've talked to have been great, but it's really nice of you to go out of your way to provide this additional insight to us.

I know transferring to FT is really difficult now, and I'm not planning to do so, but do you know what it would take now? As a contractor I like to always have a backup plan ;)


Always happy to help if I can, but unfortunately on this one I'm not sure how much help I can be. We were told that they are going to be really strict about switching to the FT program now, and nobody from my section has switched or tried to switch (that I am aware of, at least). I was initially admitted to the FT program but switched to PT before classes started. I was worried I would have "buyer's remorse" (I have not), so I probed a bit with administrators about what it would take, but since it is a new policy they really didn't know.

Re: Georgetown Law evening (part time) student taking questions

Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 5:37 pm
by Bull_Moose
Thank you very much for taking questions. Any insight on how PT students fare at OCI compared to FT'ers? Also, do many PT'ers participate on journals or in clinics? Do the journals/clinics cater to PT schedules?