Why you shouldn't go to law school

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
NYstate
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby NYstate » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:51 am

patogordo wrote:lol @ 120k debt. sticker at Harvard is closer to 300 with interest

Yes, his savings from his two years of work before law school went into this enterprise.

User avatar
cinephile
Posts: 3469
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:50 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby cinephile » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:08 am

patogordo wrote:lol @ 120k debt. sticker at Harvard is closer to 300 with interest


No one takes out 300k in debt at Harvard. If you're poor enough to have to borrow, you'll get need based aid.

User avatar
haus
Posts: 2845
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:07 am

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby haus » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:02 am

sublime wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
sublime wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Oh, boo hoo. You graduated from Harvard and got a job paying $160,000 and you can't take it. Bitch, please. You worked in management consulting. What were you expecting? You have the job that most law students dream of. You make 3x the average American worker. You are the reason why people should go to law school. If you want to quit, quit. But you are in the gig that we all want.



That's the point. Is the "prize" worth it in most circumstances?


Yes it is.



I understand that is your position, but that is the underlying question that OP was positing.

Isn't this a function of the market? If enough people feel that it is not worth it, then the going wages for positions like these would go up until there is enough people (maybe not this specific person, but someone) decides that it is worth it to put themselves through the stupidity/discomfort/pain of the job.

It seems that the wage structure has been static for a number of years now, which would lead me to believe that for the last few years it is worth it for enough people to meet the demand, but who knows what the future may bring.

ElliotNessquire
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby ElliotNessquire » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:58 am

0P --


There are firms here in Kansas that would pay an associate with a jd from harvard $110k+ out of school if you have any interest in that - feel free to PM me! You'd still be expected to bill 2,500+ hours, but probably much more low key

echooo23
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:29 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby echooo23 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:44 pm

ElliotNessquire wrote:0P --


There are firms here in Kansas that would pay an associate with a jd from harvard $110k+ out of school if you have any interest in that - feel free to PM me! You'd still be expected to bill 2,500+ hours, but probably much more low key


Is this for real? Why would anyone take a $50,000 pay cut to work the same (or more) hours? Even if the COL is lower, it's not $50,000 lower, as OP said he lives frugally with several roommates.

User avatar
sublime
Posts: 15419
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby sublime » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:46 pm

..

echooo23
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:29 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby echooo23 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:49 pm

sublime wrote:
echooo23 wrote:
ElliotNessquire wrote:0P --


There are firms here in Kansas that would pay an associate with a jd from harvard $110k+ out of school if you have any interest in that - feel free to PM me! You'd still be expected to bill 2,500+ hours, but probably much more low key


Is this for real? Why would anyone take a $50,000 pay cut to work the same (or more) hours? Even if the COL is lower, it's not $50,000 lower, as OP said he lives frugally with several roommates.


Idk. In a nearby secondary (StL), the biglaw firms I have looked at have a starting billables req. of 1800-1900.


That's my understanding too. Which is why I'm wondering if it's serious. 2500 hours for $110,000?!

LRGhost
Posts: 1869
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:49 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby LRGhost » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:52 pm

sparty99 wrote:
sublime wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Oh, boo hoo. You graduated from Harvard and got a job paying $160,000 and you can't take it. Bitch, please. You worked in management consulting. What were you expecting? You have the job that most law students dream of. You make 3x the average American worker. You are the reason why people should go to law school. If you want to quit, quit. But you are in the gig that we all want.



That's the point. Is the "prize" worth it in most circumstances?


Yes it is.


I would tell you to kill yourself but you'll take care of that on your own.

User has been banned for this post.

Cogburn87
Posts: 467
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:26 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby Cogburn87 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:45 pm

PepperJack wrote:Some people are willing to endure far more to make 200k+ a year. That type of money buys protection for you and people you love. Your spouse, children and you can go to the doctor when you want to go to the doctor. You can go to the supermarket, and know that you guys can have meat/fish whenever you want. If your kid ever needs help with a school subject, instead of just saying "let biology play out and they'll fail", you can get a tutor. These are privileges most people don't have. Some people would be willing to kill to be able to provide this to the people they love. You get this, and don't realize how lucky you are. The ones who are in bad shape are the ones who have creditors calling every day, no prospects, etc.


Yeah, OP.

If you believe you are about to be overwhelmed by the alienation and psychological brutality of Biglaw, just quietly remind yourself that you can have fish whenever you want. That should help you soldier on.

User avatar
beachbum
Posts: 2766
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby beachbum » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:24 am

Cogburn87 wrote:
PepperJack wrote:Some people are willing to endure far more to make 200k+ a year. That type of money buys protection for you and people you love. Your spouse, children and you can go to the doctor when you want to go to the doctor. You can go to the supermarket, and know that you guys can have meat/fish whenever you want. If your kid ever needs help with a school subject, instead of just saying "let biology play out and they'll fail", you can get a tutor. These are privileges most people don't have. Some people would be willing to kill to be able to provide this to the people they love. You get this, and don't realize how lucky you are. The ones who are in bad shape are the ones who have creditors calling every day, no prospects, etc.


Yeah, OP.

If you believe you are about to be overwhelmed by the alienation and psychological brutality of Biglaw, just quietly remind yourself that you can have fish whenever you want. That should help you soldier on.


Spoken like someone who has never tried the sesame teriyaki mahi from Whole Foods.

ElliotNessquire
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby ElliotNessquire » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:16 pm

sublime wrote:
echooo23 wrote:
ElliotNessquire wrote:0P --


There are firms here in Kansas that would pay an associate with a jd from harvard $110k+ out of school if you have any interest in that - feel free to PM me! You'd still be expected to bill 2,500+ hours, but probably much more low key


Is this for real? Why would anyone take a $50,000 pay cut to work the same (or more) hours? Even if the COL is lower, it's not $50,000 lower, as OP said he lives frugally with several roommates.


Idk. In a nearby secondary (StL), the biglaw firms I have looked at have a starting billables req. of 1800-1900.



I should have clarified. Firms would want to work an associate up to that 2,500 figure probably by year 3.

JusticeJackson
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:26 am

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby JusticeJackson » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:01 pm

.
Last edited by JusticeJackson on Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ElliotNessquire
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby ElliotNessquire » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:24 pm

Not to get off topic, but I don't think you're correct here. I considered moving to firms in Kansas and also to Kansas City, and their whole sell to me was that, unlike biglaw, they only required 1800-1900 billables for their attorneys. I interviewed with the biggest firms in Kansas and Kansas City. I searched your posts, and it looks like you haven't started law school yet. Are you sure your 2500 hour mark is right?[/quote]

****

I would hate to give bad info, but that's exactly what a good friend of mine who is at the second largest firm in Wichita told me. I haven't known him to exaggerate but maybe he is here.

User avatar
Dr. Filth
Posts: 1158
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:22 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby Dr. Filth » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:56 pm

LRGhost wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
sublime wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Oh, boo hoo. You graduated from Harvard and got a job paying $160,000 and you can't take it. Bitch, please. You worked in management consulting. What were you expecting? You have the job that most law students dream of. You make 3x the average American worker. You are the reason why people should go to law school. If you want to quit, quit. But you are in the gig that we all want.



That's the point. Is the "prize" worth it in most circumstances?


Yes it is.


I would tell you to kill yourself but you'll take care of that on your own.

User has been banned for this post.

would this be ok with the word probably in front of you'll ?

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22888
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:04 pm

No. There are plenty of good ways to respond to posts you think are crappy that don't involve the words "kill self."

User avatar
beachbum
Posts: 2766
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby beachbum » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:24 pm

ElliotNessquire wrote:I would hate to give bad info, but that's exactly what a good friend of mine who is at the second largest firm in Wichita told me. I haven't known him to exaggerate but maybe he is here.


It seems likely that your friend is exaggerating. Or that he chose the wrong firm. In either case, this is bad info.

User avatar
luuma
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:04 am

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby luuma » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:56 am

NeedAnExit wrote:
Considering my school, grades, and firm, most people would characterize me as having "won" the law school game. But if winning has the potential to make you this miserable, why bother?


Thank you so much for your candid and heartfelt advice to others. I really appreciate this sort of honesty. I currently work in one of the big law firms known for having crappy cutthroat vibes, and I felt this way (AS AN ASSISTANT, so I can only imagine as an attorney) for months. I slowly garnered a helmet-like mentality and began to let the little things bounce off, started understanding the dry corporate humor, and even developed zombie auto pilot response to particular situations. Every now and then a Partner or supervisor will call me down to "talk". My heart will race, I'll sweat, I'll think of all the ways I could have messed up, and I cause myself an ulcer as I walk over. I've become so desensitized to the hierarchical pressure that I either come out of the meetings so angry I could cry or feeling like a million bucks because I walked away unscratched... It's always an extreme, and rather than think of ways to fight back or get out I have accepted this.

BUT, I think because I've had some exposure to this world and grown a thicker skin, it might not hit me as such a shocker when I join the field. Can you tell me a little about your work experience prior to law school (and during the summers)?

Thanks!
Last edited by luuma on Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
luuma
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:04 am

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby luuma » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:57 am

kalvano wrote:Paying off $30K in debt in less than a year. What a tough life.


I gotta admit, when I read this I thought "damn... this just solidified all my reasons to go to law school and do big law"

User avatar
patogordo
Posts: 4827
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:33 am

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby patogordo » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:59 am

luuma wrote:
kalvano wrote:Paying off $30K in debt in less than a year. What a tough life.


I gotta admit, when I read this I thought "damn... this just solidified all my reasons to go to law school and do big law"

you could pay off $250k of debt instantly by not going to law school

User avatar
luuma
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:04 am

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby luuma » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:10 pm

patogordo wrote:
luuma wrote:
kalvano wrote:Paying off $30K in debt in less than a year. What a tough life.


I gotta admit, when I read this I thought "damn... this just solidified all my reasons to go to law school and do big law"

you could pay off $250k of debt instantly by not going to law school



I was being half serious.. OK 3/4th serious about that statement.

LRGhost
Posts: 1869
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:49 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby LRGhost » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:55 pm

luuma wrote:
kalvano wrote:Paying off $30K in debt in less than a year. What a tough life.


I gotta admit, when I read this I thought "damn... this just solidified all my reasons to go to law school and do big law"


Dude, that should have the exact opposite effect on you.

User avatar
ExBiglawAssociate
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:23 pm

luuma wrote:
patogordo wrote:
luuma wrote:
kalvano wrote:Paying off $30K in debt in less than a year. What a tough life.


I gotta admit, when I read this I thought "damn... this just solidified all my reasons to go to law school and do big law"

you could pay off $250k of debt instantly by not going to law school



I was being half serious.. OK 3/4th serious about that statement.


His SO is paying off his loans. I don't understand why that would give you any confidence that you'll be able to pay yours off. There are a lot better ways to waste someone else's money than going to fucking law school. Start a Quiznos franchise or something.

User avatar
EijiMiyake
Posts: 277
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:29 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby EijiMiyake » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:07 am

Some of my partners went to an out of town conference this weekend. I've had a few 250-hour months and have been walking around like a zombie. 3 of them sent me emails this morning before they left to the effect of "I know you're busy, we need to make X a priority. Send me something tonight." Avoid this shit at all costs.

User avatar
charlie.black
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:11 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby charlie.black » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:45 am

cinephile wrote:
patogordo wrote:lol @ 120k debt. sticker at Harvard is closer to 300 with interest


No one takes out 300k in debt at Harvard. If you're poor enough to have to borrow, you'll get need based aid.


False. If you have parents who disqualify you for aid, but who aren't contributing, big loans are the only option.

User avatar
cinephile
Posts: 3469
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:50 pm

Re: Why you shouldn't go to law school

Postby cinephile » Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:20 pm

charlie.black wrote:
cinephile wrote:
patogordo wrote:lol @ 120k debt. sticker at Harvard is closer to 300 with interest


No one takes out 300k in debt at Harvard. If you're poor enough to have to borrow, you'll get need based aid.


False. If you have parents who disqualify you for aid, but who aren't contributing, big loans are the only option.


Thanks for contributing misinformation, that's super-helpful.

You realize law students are older than undergrads, right? By this point, the expected family contribution of anyone 25 or older doesn't include your parents' income.




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SweetTort, Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests