Why you shouldn't go to law school Forum

[NYstate]

lol @ 120k debt. sticker at Harvard is closer to 300 with interest

Yes, his savings from his two years of work before law school went into this enterprise.

[cinephile]

lol @ 120k debt. sticker at Harvard is closer to 300 with interest

No one takes out 300k in debt at Harvard. If you're poor enough to have to borrow, you'll get need based aid.

[haus]

Oh, boo hoo. You graduated from Harvard and got a job paying $160,000 and you can't take it. Bitch, please. You worked in management consulting. What were you expecting? You have the job that most law students dream of. You make 3x the average American worker. You are the reason why people should go to law school. If you want to quit, quit. But you are in the gig that we all want.

That's the point. Is the "prize" worth it in most circumstances?

Yes it is.

I understand that is your position, but that is the underlying question that OP was positing.

Isn't this a function of the market? If enough people feel that it is not worth it, then the going wages for positions like these would go up until there is enough people (maybe not this specific person, but someone) decides that it is worth it to put themselves through the stupidity/discomfort/pain of the job.

It seems that the wage structure has been static for a number of years now, which would lead me to believe that for the last few years it is worth it for enough people to meet the demand, but who knows what the future may bring.

[ElliotNessquire]

0P --


There are firms here in Kansas that would pay an associate with a jd from harvard $110k+ out of school if you have any interest in that - feel free to PM me! You'd still be expected to bill 2,500+ hours, but probably much more low key

[echooo23]

0P --


There are firms here in Kansas that would pay an associate with a jd from harvard $110k+ out of school if you have any interest in that - feel free to PM me! You'd still be expected to bill 2,500+ hours, but probably much more low key

Is this for real? Why would anyone take a $50,000 pay cut to work the same (or more) hours? Even if the COL is lower, it's not $50,000 lower, as OP said he lives frugally with several roommates.

[sublime]

..

[echooo23]

0P --


There are firms here in Kansas that would pay an associate with a jd from harvard $110k+ out of school if you have any interest in that - feel free to PM me! You'd still be expected to bill 2,500+ hours, but probably much more low key

Is this for real? Why would anyone take a $50,000 pay cut to work the same (or more) hours? Even if the COL is lower, it's not $50,000 lower, as OP said he lives frugally with several roommates.

Idk. In a nearby secondary (StL), the biglaw firms I have looked at have a starting billables req. of 1800-1900.

That's my understanding too. Which is why I'm wondering if it's serious. 2500 hours for $110,000?!

[LRGhost]

Oh, boo hoo. You graduated from Harvard and got a job paying $160,000 and you can't take it. Bitch, please. You worked in management consulting. What were you expecting? You have the job that most law students dream of. You make 3x the average American worker. You are the reason why people should go to law school. If you want to quit, quit. But you are in the gig that we all want.

That's the point. Is the "prize" worth it in most circumstances?

Yes it is.

I would tell you to kill yourself but you'll take care of that on your own.

User has been banned for this post.

[Cogburn87]

Some people are willing to endure far more to make 200k+ a year. That type of money buys protection for you and people you love. Your spouse, children and you can go to the doctor when you want to go to the doctor. You can go to the supermarket, and know that you guys can have meat/fish whenever you want. If your kid ever needs help with a school subject, instead of just saying "let biology play out and they'll fail", you can get a tutor. These are privileges most people don't have. Some people would be willing to kill to be able to provide this to the people they love. You get this, and don't realize how lucky you are. The ones who are in bad shape are the ones who have creditors calling every day, no prospects, etc.

Yeah, OP.

If you believe you are about to be overwhelmed by the alienation and psychological brutality of Biglaw, just quietly remind yourself that you can have fish whenever you want. That should help you soldier on.

[beachbum]

Some people are willing to endure far more to make 200k+ a year. That type of money buys protection for you and people you love. Your spouse, children and you can go to the doctor when you want to go to the doctor. You can go to the supermarket, and know that you guys can have meat/fish whenever you want. If your kid ever needs help with a school subject, instead of just saying "let biology play out and they'll fail", you can get a tutor. These are privileges most people don't have. Some people would be willing to kill to be able to provide this to the people they love. You get this, and don't realize how lucky you are. The ones who are in bad shape are the ones who have creditors calling every day, no prospects, etc.

Yeah, OP.

If you believe you are about to be overwhelmed by the alienation and psychological brutality of Biglaw, just quietly remind yourself that you can have fish whenever you want. That should help you soldier on.

Spoken like someone who has never tried the sesame teriyaki mahi from Whole Foods.

[ElliotNessquire]

0P --


There are firms here in Kansas that would pay an associate with a jd from harvard $110k+ out of school if you have any interest in that - feel free to PM me! You'd still be expected to bill 2,500+ hours, but probably much more low key

Is this for real? Why would anyone take a $50,000 pay cut to work the same (or more) hours? Even if the COL is lower, it's not $50,000 lower, as OP said he lives frugally with several roommates.

Idk. In a nearby secondary (StL), the biglaw firms I have looked at have a starting billables req. of 1800-1900.

I should have clarified. Firms would want to work an associate up to that 2,500 figure probably by year 3.

[JusticeJackson]

.

[ElliotNessquire]

Not to get off topic, but I don't think you're correct here. I considered moving to firms in Kansas and also to Kansas City, and their whole sell to me was that, unlike biglaw, they only required 1800-1900 billables for their attorneys. I interviewed with the biggest firms in Kansas and Kansas City. I searched your posts, and it looks like you haven't started law school yet. Are you sure your 2500 hour mark is right?[/quote]

****

I would hate to give bad info, but that's exactly what a good friend of mine who is at the second largest firm in Wichita told me. I haven't known him to exaggerate but maybe he is here.

[Dr. Filth]

Oh, boo hoo. You graduated from Harvard and got a job paying $160,000 and you can't take it. Bitch, please. You worked in management consulting. What were you expecting? You have the job that most law students dream of. You make 3x the average American worker. You are the reason why people should go to law school. If you want to quit, quit. But you are in the gig that we all want.

That's the point. Is the "prize" worth it in most circumstances?

Yes it is.

I would tell you to kill yourself but you'll take care of that on your own.

User has been banned for this post.

would this be ok with the word probably in front of you'll ?

[A. Nony Mouse]

No. There are plenty of good ways to respond to posts you think are crappy that don't involve the words "kill self."

[beachbum]

I would hate to give bad info, but that's exactly what a good friend of mine who is at the second largest firm in Wichita told me. I haven't known him to exaggerate but maybe he is here.

It seems likely that your friend is exaggerating. Or that he chose the wrong firm. In either case, this is bad info.

[luuma]

Considering my school, grades, and firm, most people would characterize me as having "won" the law school game. But if winning has the potential to make you this miserable, why bother?

Thank you so much for your candid and heartfelt advice to others. I really appreciate this sort of honesty. I currently work in one of the big law firms known for having crappy cutthroat vibes, and I felt this way (AS AN ASSISTANT, so I can only imagine as an attorney) for months. I slowly garnered a helmet-like mentality and began to let the little things bounce off, started understanding the dry corporate humor, and even developed zombie auto pilot response to particular situations. Every now and then a Partner or supervisor will call me down to "talk". My heart will race, I'll sweat, I'll think of all the ways I could have messed up, and I cause myself an ulcer as I walk over. I've become so desensitized to the hierarchical pressure that I either come out of the meetings so angry I could cry or feeling like a million bucks because I walked away unscratched... It's always an extreme, and rather than think of ways to fight back or get out I have accepted this.

BUT, I think because I've had some exposure to this world and grown a thicker skin, it might not hit me as such a shocker when I join the field. Can you tell me a little about your work experience prior to law school (and during the summers)?

Thanks!

[luuma]

Paying off $30K in debt in less than a year. What a tough life.

I gotta admit, when I read this I thought "damn... this just solidified all my reasons to go to law school and do big law"

[patogordo]

Paying off $30K in debt in less than a year. What a tough life.

I gotta admit, when I read this I thought "damn... this just solidified all my reasons to go to law school and do big law"

you could pay off $250k of debt instantly by not going to law school

[luuma]

Paying off $30K in debt in less than a year. What a tough life.

I gotta admit, when I read this I thought "damn... this just solidified all my reasons to go to law school and do big law"

you could pay off $250k of debt instantly by not going to law school

I was being half serious.. OK 3/4th serious about that statement.

[LRGhost]

Paying off $30K in debt in less than a year. What a tough life.

I gotta admit, when I read this I thought "damn... this just solidified all my reasons to go to law school and do big law"

Dude, that should have the exact opposite effect on you.

[84651846190]

Paying off $30K in debt in less than a year. What a tough life.

I gotta admit, when I read this I thought "damn... this just solidified all my reasons to go to law school and do big law"

you could pay off $250k of debt instantly by not going to law school

I was being half serious.. OK 3/4th serious about that statement.

His SO is paying off his loans. I don't understand why that would give you any confidence that you'll be able to pay yours off. There are a lot better ways to waste someone else's money than going to fucking law school. Start a Quiznos franchise or something.

[EijiMiyake]

Some of my partners went to an out of town conference this weekend. I've had a few 250-hour months and have been walking around like a zombie. 3 of them sent me emails this morning before they left to the effect of "I know you're busy, we need to make X a priority. Send me something tonight." Avoid this shit at all costs.

[charlie.black]

lol @ 120k debt. sticker at Harvard is closer to 300 with interest

No one takes out 300k in debt at Harvard. If you're poor enough to have to borrow, you'll get need based aid.

False. If you have parents who disqualify you for aid, but who aren't contributing, big loans are the only option.

[cinephile]

lol @ 120k debt. sticker at Harvard is closer to 300 with interest

No one takes out 300k in debt at Harvard. If you're poor enough to have to borrow, you'll get need based aid.

False. If you have parents who disqualify you for aid, but who aren't contributing, big loans are the only option.

Thanks for contributing misinformation, that's super-helpful.

You realize law students are older than undergrads, right? By this point, the expected family contribution of anyone 25 or older doesn't include your parents' income.