Immigration law- Fragomen

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Sgt Brody.
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Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby Sgt Brody. » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:19 am

Hey Guys!

I am a 0l, and my I'm really passionate about immigration law, and I am determined to work in the field, as my passion truly lies only in this field. Upon doing my research, I realized that immigration law is a niche area, so I was curious to know about what law students and graduates know about the field, and specifically about the job opportunities. How are the job opportunities in immigration relative to other areas of the law. And lastly, since I would applying to schools predominantly in the socal region, I realized that a law firm called Fragomen is the the elite immigration law firm and they have offices in LA, Irvine and San Diego. I would love to be any of these three cities. Does anybody know about job opportunities in Fragomen in these three cities, and do they usually take summer associates? as my goal would be to work in one of these three offices. I would really appreciate if anybody had any input, thank you so much in advance!

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splitsplat
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby splitsplat » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:18 am

it's a little early to be deciding what you want to do as a lawyer before starting law school.. but yeah

anyways, a couple things about fragomen, most of their offices are tiny (like 10 attorneys or less). their summer program isnt like other firms because (1) it is considerably below market in terms of pay (2) the expectation is that you will not be hired after finishing as a summer and (3) they only take summers in new york.

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Sgt Brody.
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby Sgt Brody. » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:48 pm

splitsplat wrote:it's a little early to be deciding what you want to do as a lawyer before starting law school.. but yeah

anyways, a couple things about fragomen, most of their offices are tiny (like 10 attorneys or less). their summer program isnt like other firms because (1) it is considerably below market in terms of pay (2) the expectation is that you will not be hired after finishing as a summer and (3) they only take summers in new york.


Thank you for replying!, and yea, Im aware that it is a little bit early, but I'm 99 percent sure thats is what I plan to pursue. And wow, I did not know the Fragomen offices have only like 10 attorneys. So does that make it a small law firm? Because, I was under the impression that Fragomen is what TLS calls a big law firm, as first year attorneys earn in six figures. So, should I not count on getting a job there right out of law school? Once again, Thank you for you input!

NYstate
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby NYstate » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:52 pm

frag omen mostly does employment related immigration. I wouldn't consider them biglaw because they are limited in practice area. They just recently started a summer program of sorts.

You need fluency in at least one other language to be hired.

I don't think you should count on being hired there.

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Sgt Brody.
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby Sgt Brody. » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:16 pm

Can any attorneys from Fragomen specifically from the La, Irvine, San Diego offices confirm that they dont hire grads straight out of of law school? Thank you!

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splitsplat
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby splitsplat » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:03 pm

Those are offices with 10 or less people- offices of that size rarely have summers. If you want confirmation (there is 0% chance an attorney from Fragomen will actually comment here and out themselves) go to Fragomen's website, and shoot an email to recruiting.

JLebowski
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby JLebowski » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:38 am

Fragomen is inbound business immigration, along with Berry Appleman and Leiden. Other national employment law firms like Littler Mendelson and Ogletree Deakins have dedicated immigration practice groups.

Fragomen's model is a modified version of the BigLaw pyramid, just replace the associate attorneys with paralegals. Your office will have 2 partners, 6 associates, 35 paralegals, a receptionist, an HR, and IT person. You will be a case manager, assigning cases to paralegals and signing them before they are shipped out to USCIS or DOL. This is a flat-fee, mass volume practice, you will not have billable hours, everyone will be wearing jeans and sneakers because your clients are probably not in the same city, and all work is done over the internet and phone. You will not need to bring in clients because the firm is not interested in clients with 10 Foreign National employees. You could get hired straight from LS, though you will need some immigration experience. Each office is an island, guarding their turf.

If you want to oversee mass-batch PERM cases & H-1B Cap, wear sandals, have no billable hours, and not have to worry about making partner, Fragomen is your place. If you want to do family-based, NATZ, asylum, deportations, or outbound, but also have to produce clients, quote fees and collect, you should look at a smaller firm or for a sole practitioner. If you're that set on immigration, honestly you should do both, as well as look in-house and for DHS.

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Sgt Brody.
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby Sgt Brody. » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:47 pm

JLebowski wrote:Fragomen is inbound business immigration, along with Berry Appleman and Leiden. Other national employment law firms like Littler Mendelson and Ogletree Deakins have dedicated immigration practice groups.

Fragomen's model is a modified version of the BigLaw pyramid, just replace the associate attorneys with paralegals. Your office will have 2 partners, 6 associates, 35 paralegals, a receptionist, an HR, and IT person. You will be a case manager, assigning cases to paralegals and signing them before they are shipped out to USCIS or DOL. This is a flat-fee, mass volume practice, you will not have billable hours, everyone will be wearing jeans and sneakers because your clients are probably not in the same city, and all work is done over the internet and phone. You will not need to bring in clients because the firm is not interested in clients with 10 Foreign National employees. You could get hired straight from LS, though you will need some immigration experience. Each office is an island, guarding their turf.

If you want to oversee mass-batch PERM cases & H-1B Cap, wear sandals, have no billable hours, and not have to worry about making partner, Fragomen is your place. If you want to do family-based, NATZ, asylum, deportations, or outbound, but also have to produce clients, quote fees and collect, you should look at a smaller firm or for a sole practitioner. If you're that set on immigration, honestly you should do both, as well as look in-house and for DHS.


Hey! thank you so much for your reply, you really made it clear. I was just a bit worried, because I was told that immigration law firms like Fragomen do not hire grads straight out of law school every year.

eaternation
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby eaternation » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:00 pm

How much weight is put on grades at firms like fragomen? Similar to big law or do they consider immigration experience heavily also?

californiauser
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby californiauser » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:12 pm

It appears that being an attractive female is a prerequisite to getting hired at the San Diego or Los Angeles office.

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Sgt Brody.
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby Sgt Brody. » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:17 pm

californiauser wrote:It appears that being an attractive female is a prerequisite to getting hired at the San Diego or Los Angeles office.


haha, I noticed that about the San Diego Office.

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Sgt Brody.
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby Sgt Brody. » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:21 pm

I would also love any immigration lawyers to chime in about the prospects about immigration law, and how the job market is looking. I am 99 percent sure that I want to pursue immigration law. But I have concerns, and the first one is that if big immigration law firms like Fragomen do not hire grads out of law school, that will force me to work in small law firms. And with a lot of debt, wont that be very hard. Thats why firms like fragomen seemed like a desirable option to me.

eaternation
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby eaternation » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:47 pm

Sgt Brody. wrote:
californiauser wrote:It appears that being an attractive female is a prerequisite to getting hired at the San Diego or Los Angeles office.


haha, I noticed that about the San Diego Office.


Wow. Self-selection, chance, or Older male managing partner?

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Gooner91
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby Gooner91 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:54 pm

eaternation wrote:
Sgt Brody. wrote:
californiauser wrote:It appears that being an attractive female is a prerequisite to getting hired at the San Diego or Los Angeles office.


haha, I noticed that about the San Diego Office.


Wow. Self-selection, chance, or Older male managing partner?


I looked on the website and it seems the only male attorney at the office is the partner.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:48 pm

Sgt Brody. wrote:I would also love any immigration lawyers to chime in about the prospects about immigration law, and how the job market is looking. I am 99 percent sure that I want to pursue immigration law. But I have concerns, and the first one is that if big immigration law firms like Fragomen do not hire grads out of law school, that will force me to work in small law firms. And with a lot of debt, wont that be very hard. Thats why firms like fragomen seemed like a desirable option to me.


Immigration law prospects are actually pretty decent. A lot of non-profits do immigration work, as well as small firms. The problem is most jobs don't pay really well.

Really you should think of either going to an elite school with good PI placement and doing immigration/asylum work with a non-profit or USCIS/Homeland Security, OR going to a regional school with little to no debt and going with whatever works for you. You will not likely make a big law salary. If you are at all prestige obsessed, this is also not the field for you.

Your job prospects will really depend on your language ability. Spanish fluency is almost a necessity, or fluency in another language that's high demand. For instance, in Florida Haitian Creole is in extremely high demand.

It also is probably not as exciting as you might think. You'll spend a lot of time just filling out annoying forms.

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Sgt Brody.
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby Sgt Brody. » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:01 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
Sgt Brody. wrote:I would also love any immigration lawyers to chime in about the prospects about immigration law, and how the job market is looking. I am 99 percent sure that I want to pursue immigration law. But I have concerns, and the first one is that if big immigration law firms like Fragomen do not hire grads out of law school, that will force me to work in small law firms. And with a lot of debt, wont that be very hard. Thats why firms like fragomen seemed like a desirable option to me.


Immigration law prospects are actually pretty decent. A lot of non-profits do immigration work, as well as small firms. The problem is most jobs don't pay really well.

Really you should think of either going to an elite school with good PI placement and doing immigration/asylum work with a non-profit or USCIS/Homeland Security, OR going to a regional school with little to no debt and going with whatever works for you. You will not likely make a big law salary. If you are at all prestige obsessed, this is also not the field for you.

Your job prospects will really depend on your language ability. Spanish fluency is almost a necessity, or fluency in another language that's high demand. For instance, in Florida Haitian Creole is in extremely high demand.

It also is probably not as exciting as you might think. You'll spend a lot of time just filling out annoying forms.


Do you happen to know about immigration law prospects in big firms such as Fragomen?

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worldtraveler
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Re: Immigration law- Fragomen

Postby worldtraveler » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:48 am

Sgt Brody. wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
Sgt Brody. wrote:I would also love any immigration lawyers to chime in about the prospects about immigration law, and how the job market is looking. I am 99 percent sure that I want to pursue immigration law. But I have concerns, and the first one is that if big immigration law firms like Fragomen do not hire grads out of law school, that will force me to work in small law firms. And with a lot of debt, wont that be very hard. Thats why firms like fragomen seemed like a desirable option to me.


Immigration law prospects are actually pretty decent. A lot of non-profits do immigration work, as well as small firms. The problem is most jobs don't pay really well.

Really you should think of either going to an elite school with good PI placement and doing immigration/asylum work with a non-profit or USCIS/Homeland Security, OR going to a regional school with little to no debt and going with whatever works for you. You will not likely make a big law salary. If you are at all prestige obsessed, this is also not the field for you.

Your job prospects will really depend on your language ability. Spanish fluency is almost a necessity, or fluency in another language that's high demand. For instance, in Florida Haitian Creole is in extremely high demand.

It also is probably not as exciting as you might think. You'll spend a lot of time just filling out annoying forms.


Do you happen to know about immigration law prospects in big firms such as Fragomen?


No. But I think if you really want to do immigration law, you need to focus far less on specific firms, or firms in general. That's a very small part of the market.




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