University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

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wisclaw
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University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby wisclaw » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:17 pm

I will let you know the real deal about Wisconsin Law School.

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MCFC
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby MCFC » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:48 pm

Is the "law in action" approach an actual meaningful thing?

daryldixon
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby daryldixon » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:49 pm

Do you have a job lined up for after graduation? If so, what is it?

wisclaw
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby wisclaw » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:25 pm

MCFC wrote:Is the "law in action" approach an actual meaningful thing?


No. The Law in Action approach is marketing propaganda. It has no actual meaning. In actuality, all law schools do "law in action." There is the "black letter law" then there is the "real world" approach to the law. Law in action is simply the "real world" approach. It can also include looking at the social or political context of a case. However, it has no actual real meaning.

wisclaw
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby wisclaw » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:26 pm

daryldixon wrote:Do you have a job lined up for after graduation? If so, what is it?


No. I do not have a job lined up at this time. Less then half of UW graduates secure a job by graduation.

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John Everyman
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby John Everyman » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:42 pm

Do ties to Wisconsin seem to be impacting the job search? By 50% have nothing lined up do you essentially mean the bottom 50% have nothing lined up?

At what cost would you think a UW Madison law degree is justified having attended?

How are people faring looking for jobs in the Milwaukee market?

Has there been any real reach into the Chicago market, or is that simply not in the cards these days?

Are you from the midwest/Wisconsin? (relevant because it has a large impact on the job search from such a regional school)

wisclaw
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby wisclaw » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:54 pm

John Everyman wrote:Do ties to Wisconsin seem to be impacting the job search? By 50% have nothing lined up do you essentially mean the bottom 50% have nothing lined up?

At what cost would you think a UW Madison law degree is justified having attended?

How are people faring looking for jobs in the Milwaukee market?

Has there been any real reach into the Chicago market, or is that simply not in the cards these days?

Are you from the midwest/Wisconsin? (relevant because it has a large impact on the job search from such a regional school)


I am not from Wisconsin, however, I am from the midwest. However, I don't think this matters too much. Because you go the University of Wisconsin, you will establish local times and will automatically be part of the Wisconsin legal market. Thus, ties to Wisconsin does not impact the job search. The only exception might be if you want to work in rural Wisconsin and you come from a large city outside of the state. Employers would wonder why you want to live in a small town. However, if you are from rural Minnesota, this might not be much of an issue.

UW Madison is a quality law school if you get a near or full ride scholarship. You finish in the top 20% or you are okay with graduating with a job that will pay you $30,000 to $45,000. Outside of that, I see no reason why you would pay money to go to UW-Madison.

The Milwaukee and Madison legal markets are very small. There is little opportunity in both markets. In terms of firms, we have the major MKE firms that recruit at UW. But you must be in the top 30% to get interviews at these firms. It is very selective. Outside of that, there are numerous non-profits out of MKE. There is a public interest fair with Marquette. However, many of these positions during the summers are unpaid. Post-graduation non profit is low pay. I can't say overall how people are doing in the MKE market. However, if you don't have the grades, then any market will be a challenge. However, a plus for Wisconsin students is that we don't have to take the bar. Thus, if you want a legal job in WI, this could be an advantage.

No. When I say that less than 50% have jobs at graduation, I mean all the graduates. This would include students in the Top 30%.

The Chicago market is an option. However, it is mostly an option if you are Top 20%. Chicago firms recruit UW (a small amount). You are close to the city, so you will have opportunities to attend the midwest minority career fair. We also have an annual trip where 20 or so law students take a bus ride to Chicago and visit 5 or 6 large law firms for a day. Outside of large firms, Chicago is tough. Minneapolis is also an option. However, like Chicago, you need to be looking at top 20-30%.

All in all, if you are not top 30% and you don't have a job by 3L, you will begin to wonder why you ever attended the University of Wisconsin. The 3L recruiting is a joke. Career services is not helpful. At this point in the game, you will be hoping that one of the large Wisconsin firms needs to bring a new Associate. If you are top 30%, you will probably get an interview. If you are bottom 50%, then you can forget about getting a firm job. Your next option are very small firms with less then 10 attorneys. These jobs pay $40,000 at best.

suchana
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby suchana » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:35 am

I guess the statisticts here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... anc&gid=16 might be a bit misleading then if 50% of the graduates do not have jobs yet, because the chart says the unemployment rate is only 9.9%.

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hichvichwoh
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby hichvichwoh » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:02 am

suchana wrote:I guess the statisticts here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... anc&gid=16 might be a bit misleading then if 50% of the graduates do not have jobs yet, because the chart says the unemployment rate is only 9.9%.


OP paints a more accurate picture: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=wisconsin

wisclaw
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby wisclaw » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:54 am

suchana wrote:I guess the statisticts here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... anc&gid=16 might be a bit misleading then if 50% of the graduates do not have jobs yet, because the chart says the unemployment rate is only 9.9%.


Do not believe any employment stats coming out of Wisconsin Law.

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McAvoy
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby McAvoy » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:47 am

suchana wrote:I guess the statisticts here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... anc&gid=16 might be a bit misleading then if 50% of the graduates do not have jobs yet, because the chart says the unemployment rate is only 9.9%.


They aren't necessarily misleading, as that's data from nine months after graduation. OP is a 3L with three months until graduation. Look at that graph again -- only 40ish percent are employed in firms with more than 10-20 people in it. I get the vibe most 3Ls aren't willing to settle for 10 person law firms in Tomahawk until the loan payment fear truly sets in.

OP, you wouldn't discourage people from attending if they had a full ride? The generally depressed vibe I get from UW Law makes me think T13* at sticker is a better path to happiness and a decent job, regardless of how awesome (and free) Madison is.

___
* not a Gtown dig -- paying sticker is an objectively different scenario there.

wisclaw
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby wisclaw » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:27 am

Will_McAvoy wrote:
suchana wrote:I guess the statisticts here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... anc&gid=16 might be a bit misleading then if 50% of the graduates do not have jobs yet, because the chart says the unemployment rate is only 9.9%.


They aren't necessarily misleading, as that's data from nine months after graduation. OP is a 3L with three months until graduation. Look at that graph again -- only 40ish percent are employed in firms with more than 10-20 people in it. I get the vibe most 3Ls aren't willing to settle for 10 person law firms in Tomahawk until the loan payment fear truly sets in.

OP, you wouldn't discourage people from attending if they had a full ride? The generally depressed vibe I get from UW Law makes me think T13* at sticker is a better path to happiness and a decent job, regardless of how awesome (and free) Madison is.

___
* not a Gtown dig -- paying sticker is an objectively different scenario there.


If my choice was a full ride and a T13, I would attend the T13. Or I'd consider retaking the LSAT so I can get more money at the T13. The jobs at UW are weak. And as you mentioned, come 3L and being jobless, you are looking at positions at small firms in these very small Wisconsin towns. It's not worth it.

suchana
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby suchana » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:46 pm

Isn't it possible to find jobs in Chicago?

suchana
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby suchana » Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:07 am

wisclaw wrote:
daryldixon wrote:Do you have a job lined up for after graduation? If so, what is it?


No. I do not have a job lined up at this time. Less then half of UW graduates secure a job by graduation.


Is it common for graduates to find jobs in Chicago?

wisclaw
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby wisclaw » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:42 am

suchana wrote:
wisclaw wrote:
daryldixon wrote:Do you have a job lined up for after graduation? If so, what is it?


No. I do not have a job lined up at this time. Less then half of UW graduates secure a job by graduation.


Is it common for graduates to find jobs in Chicago?


No. It is not common. Do we have graduates that land jobs in Chicago? Yes. But they are Top 20% and doing Big Law. Chicago is nearby, but unless you are Top 20%, you will most likely not land a job there unless you graduate jobless, pass the bar in Chicago, move to the city (jobless), and start networking. If you want Chicago, then you need to go to Northwestern or the University of Chicago. Loyola/Kent are probably better options then Wisconsin. But only because they are "in market." I really wouldn't go to either of those schools. If Wisconsin grads have a hard time finding jobs, I could imagine what second-tier schools in Chicago experience. Don't go to Wisconsin if your goal is to land the Chicago market.

sconnielaw13
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby sconnielaw13 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:25 pm

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Last edited by sconnielaw13 on Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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McAvoy
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby McAvoy » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:46 pm

Where is this BigLaw in Madison that you speak of?

mtn663
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby mtn663 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:38 pm

vlienj24 wrote: after 9 months about 75-85% of the class has long term legal employment that requires a law degree. I'd imagine my class, the class of 2013 has faired even better than that.


That's weird, since Wisconsin's LST score is 60.6% for c/o 2012

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John Everyman
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby John Everyman » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:47 pm

mtn663 wrote:
vlienj24 wrote: after 9 months about 75-85% of the class has long term legal employment that requires a law degree. I'd imagine my class, the class of 2013 has faired even better than that.


That's weird, since Wisconsin's LST score is 60.6% for c/o 2012


That's a metric, not an exact number of graduates employed as lawyers. JD Advantage plus bar passage required put it at around 78.5% for 2012.

sconnielaw13
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby sconnielaw13 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:54 pm

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Last edited by sconnielaw13 on Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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BuckinghamB
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby BuckinghamB » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:59 pm

Will_McAvoy wrote:Where is this BigLaw in Madison that you speak of?


There are a few satellite offices for the big Wisconsin firms (Foley, Quarles, etc.) but my understanding is that they only take 2-3 summers each year at the most.

sconnielaw13
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby sconnielaw13 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:10 pm

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Last edited by sconnielaw13 on Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BuckinghamB
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby BuckinghamB » Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:28 pm

vlienj24 wrote:
Will_McAvoy wrote:Where is this BigLaw in Madison that you speak of?


Foley, Perkins Coie, Quarles, G&K, Michael Best.... last time I checked Perkins Coie still paid 160k in Madison.



Does Perkins Coie even have a program in Madison? I thought they didn't, but maybe they do for IP.

sconnielaw13
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby sconnielaw13 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:54 am

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Last edited by sconnielaw13 on Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BuckinghamB
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Re: University of Wisconsin Madison 3L Taking Questions...

Postby BuckinghamB » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:50 am

vlienj24 wrote:I know that they participate in OCI, at least they did when I went through OCI. One of the guys from my class was hired there after summering there. I don't think he is doing IP. However, I think that the bulk of their work there is IP.


Gotcha. Damn, 160k in Madison would be awesome.




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