Entering UT, have questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
Mos10
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby Mos10 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:10 pm

Thank you for your thoughtful answer.
I don't doubt that I'll have to make the case for staying in Texas, but it doesn't discourage me. I'd be far more discouraged if I were a UC Hastings grad competing with Berkeley/Stanford grads.
As for grades, sure, I shouldn't be surprised if I end up in the median, but I want to have a positive attitude about the blank slate I have.

NYstate
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby NYstate » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:27 pm

Mos10 wrote:Well, I can't prove it, but I love Texas culture. And this is pretty irrelevant - call me naive, but I don't see how that would be an automatic rejection. This is the United States of America, people relocate all the time.
And if they're paying me, why would I leave? I would only leave the state if I lost my job, but I don't see how prospects could be better elsewhere.


It's not an automatic rejection but it is something to be aware of when making decisions.

Mos10
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby Mos10 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:30 pm

Okay, thanks.

dkb17xzx
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby dkb17xzx » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:52 pm

Mos10 wrote:Well, aside from doing as well as I possibly can academically, what should I do to put myself ahead of the pack?
I know everyone thinks they'll do better than they actually end up doing, but what's the percentile where, barring a new recession, you're all but guaranteed a decent-paying job in Texas? 25%?
Which courses should I take if I hope to represent oil corporations? Which firms should I apply to for internships?



Didn't read the whole thread but will answer this. The ONLY thing that matters are your grades - especially so if you wanna do big law for oil / gas.

I'd say your questions reflect not being sure of what you want and that is completely OK. Start law school, work your ass off, network w/ profs and other professionals, ask them for advice, learn more about the law / career objectives and kick ass 1L year. The rest will pan out. I say this b/c you are already committed to UT.

Other than that, enjoy your last semester, plan for an exciting / once in a lifetime trip somewhere for the summer, relax, and keep browsing TLS so you can soak in the law school cynicism and laugh at all the people who go "like omgg im gonna be a lawyer and save the world and like make tons of money."

Mos10
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby Mos10 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:02 am

Thanks for your balanced answer. I've always suspected that there's a middle ground between "entry-level corporate lawyers are guaranteed $150k" and "if you don't go to HSY you'll be a loser."

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patogordo
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby patogordo » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:17 am

$170k in loans for UT is a pretty risky proposition. there's a really good chance you won't end up with a job that pays enough to service that kind of debt. top 25% is probably a decent estimate, but even good grades aren't a guarantee. even if you get a 2L biglaw SA, you could get no-offered, and that's almost impossible to predict. so i'd say just go into it knowing that more likely than not you are going to graduate with a huge amount of debt that you cannot realistically repay.

that being said, only you know how risk-averse you are. i'm not saying going to UT is as objectively stupid as buying a lotto ticket (like some other law schools might be) but a lotto ticket only costs $1. just remember that in some respects you're making irreversible choices. if you're okay with a good chance of making little money and possibly not even being a lawyer and 20-25 years of IBR, then go for it, work hard, try to be at the top. i think that's all people are trying to tell you.

Mos10
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby Mos10 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:28 am

That $170k figure is one person's estimate.
So where are most recent UT grads? Are most of them earning $0-40k right now?

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patogordo
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby patogordo » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:33 am

Mos10 wrote:That $170k figure is one person's estimate.
So where are most recent UT grads? Are most of them earning $0-40k right now?

LST can answer that better than me: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=texas

that's also where the $170k figure for in-state residents comes from

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby ScottRiqui » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:40 am

Mos10 wrote:That $170k figure is one person's estimate.
So where are most recent UT grads? Are most of them earning $0-40k right now?


$170k is just as estimate, but it's probably in the ballpark. Using UT's budgeting numbers for last year, taking out loans for in-state tuition and COL for three years adds up to about $160k, plus whatever interest accrues while you're a student.

As for what UT graduates are earning, that's hard to tell. About 65% of them *aren't* doing biglaw or Article III clerkships, and there aren't a lot of low-six figure legal jobs. So while that 65% probably isn't all down around $40k, it wouldn't surprise me if they were averaging $50-60k.

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patogordo
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby patogordo » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:44 am

ScottRiqui wrote:
Mos10 wrote:That $170k figure is one person's estimate.
So where are most recent UT grads? Are most of them earning $0-40k right now?


$170k is just as estimate, but it's probably in the ballpark. Using UT's budgeting numbers for last year, taking out loans for in-state tuition and COL for three years adds up to about $160k, plus whatever interest accrues while you're a student.

As for what UT graduates are earning, that's hard to tell. About 65% of them *aren't* doing biglaw or Article III clerkships, and there aren't a lot of low-six figure legal jobs. So while that 65% probably isn't all down around $40k, it wouldn't surprise me if they were averaging $50-60k.

don't forget that about 10% are unemployed, and 25% are not in full-time legal jobs.

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Mojosodope
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby Mojosodope » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:45 am

patogordo wrote:
Mos10 wrote:That $170k figure is one person's estimate.
So where are most recent UT grads? Are most of them earning $0-40k right now?

LST can answer that better than me: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=texas

that's also where the $170k figure for in-state residents comes from


Isn't he out of state though? I assume this since he said he said he didn't have strong ties.

Mos10
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby Mos10 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:47 am

Stats for 2011-2012 are far less grim than I'd feared. My assumption, of course, is that they'll get worse.
Considering I have no aptitude for engineering (the only way to reliably make money in post-2008 America), nor prospects for making more than $20k in my present situation - I'll have to make do with this.
I'm going to assume that knowing which kind of law I want to do will help.

Mos10
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby Mos10 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:48 am

Mojosodope wrote:
patogordo wrote:
Mos10 wrote:That $170k figure is one person's estimate.
So where are most recent UT grads? Are most of them earning $0-40k right now?

LST can answer that better than me: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=texas

that's also where the $170k figure for in-state residents comes from


Isn't he out of state though? I assume this since he said he said he didn't have strong ties.


I applied ED so I got in-state tuition

timmyd
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby timmyd » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:03 am

Hey OP,
I'm a 2l at UT and would like to provide some insight. First off, congrats on your acceptance. UT is a great law school with some national recognition. Austin is also pretty cool and the professors/classmates are top notch. The big law/Fed clerk rate is I think 35%. Also, someone said earlier you had a 75% chance of becoming a lawyer from UT and I think thats false. I think that person got the number from UT's LST placement score which doesnt correlate exactly to the legal employment stat which is around 85% if I remember correctly.
Everyone talks about the bimodal distribution of legal salaries and I have no doubt that is largely the case. There are, however, many firms that start at 75-100 as well. The firm I am working at this summer starts associates at 75k with advances to 100k within the first five years. Not as glamorous as big law but still not bad depending on your debt.
With respect to not being from Texas, I think it will vary with different firms how that will affect you chances. Obviously if you have high enough grades I dont think it will matter, but if you are borderline than expect the tiebreaker to go to the Texan. Overall, UT is a really good law school that places pretty well. If you are at the bottom of the class you are fucked, but I mean...thats the case almost everywhere outside of HYSCCN. Try and negotiate for more money. Lastly, your 3.8 UG gpa means squat here. I'm not doubting your ability to succeed but you should know that it will be a result of hard work and natural legal aptitude which doesnt necessarily correlate to LSAT or gpa.

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patogordo
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby patogordo » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:07 am

i'm just reading the numbers. LST said 75% FT long-term legal. but that's beside the point -- UT is a good law school w/ pretty good employment outcomes especially compared to the other options people have w/ the same numbers. i just don't think it's generally a good bet to go to UT, Vandy, WUSTL, UCLA, etc at sticker.

timmyd
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby timmyd » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:19 am

Yea...my bad I was wrong about the 75% number. Maybe I was looking at both short term and long term JD jobs or something. Probably not the best idea at sticker but thats a personal choice.

Mos10
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby Mos10 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:22 am

timmyd wrote:Hey OP,
I'm a 2l at UT and would like to provide some insight. First off, congrats on your acceptance. UT is a great law school with some national recognition. Austin is also pretty cool and the professors/classmates are top notch. The big law/Fed clerk rate is I think 35%. Also, someone said earlier you had a 75% chance of becoming a lawyer from UT and I think thats false. I think that person got the number from UT's LST placement score which doesnt correlate exactly to the legal employment stat which is around 85% if I remember correctly.
Everyone talks about the bimodal distribution of legal salaries and I have no doubt that is largely the case. There are, however, many firms that start at 75-100 as well. The firm I am working at this summer starts associates at 75k with advances to 100k within the first five years. Not as glamorous as big law but still not bad depending on your debt.
With respect to not being from Texas, I think it will vary with different firms how that will affect you chances. Obviously if you have high enough grades I dont think it will matter, but if you are borderline than expect the tiebreaker to go to the Texan. Overall, UT is a really good law school that places pretty well. If you are at the bottom of the class you are fucked, but I mean...thats the case almost everywhere outside of HYSCCN. Try and negotiate for more money. Lastly, your 3.8 UG gpa means squat here. I'm not doubting your ability to succeed but you should know that it will be a result of hard work and natural legal aptitude which doesnt necessarily correlate to LSAT or gpa.


Thanks a lot for your insight. Considering I got into UT, love Austin, and don't really have any other options, I could do worse than stay optimistic.
And I wish you luck as well!

Mos10
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby Mos10 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:25 am

timmyd wrote:Yea...my bad I was wrong about the 75% number. Maybe I was looking at both short term and long term JD jobs or something. Probably not the best idea at sticker but thats a personal choice.


A full-ride to Golden Gate is a personal choice, too, but there's a qualifiable difference. Really, the amount of debt is irrelevant so long as my odds of getting decently paying work are reasonable.

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Mojosodope
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby Mojosodope » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:06 am

Mos10 wrote:
timmyd wrote:Yea...my bad I was wrong about the 75% number. Maybe I was looking at both short term and long term JD jobs or something. Probably not the best idea at sticker but thats a personal choice.


A full-ride to Golden Gate is a personal choice, too, but there's a qualifiable difference. Really, the amount of debt is irrelevant so long as my odds of getting decently paying work are reasonable.


The amount of debt is never irrelevant. If your loan payments are ridiculously high, you will still be living on a 50k salary if you make 100k.

Mos10
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby Mos10 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:12 am

Better than a $20k salary

Mos10
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby Mos10 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:13 am

Which, you're right, I could be making.
But again, I don't really have any better options.

cronos2546
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby cronos2546 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:13 pm

As an aside OP, have you considered land work for o&g companies? Almost anyone with a pulse and law degree in Texas can get one, if you don't mind travel. If you target land, from the beginning at law school, you might be able to pick up a lucrative 1L gig and burnish resume for o&g in houston or midland. It would also defray portions of debt.

deebanger
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby deebanger » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:45 pm

So, OP since did your undergrad in Cali, I'm curious, why did you ed UT, and say not a school like UCLA

Mos10
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby Mos10 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:49 pm

cronos2546 wrote:As an aside OP, have you considered land work for o&g companies? Almost anyone with a pulse and law degree in Texas can get one, if you don't mind travel. If you target land, from the beginning at law school, you might be able to pick up a lucrative 1L gig and burnish resume for o&g in houston or midland. It would also defray portions of debt.


Terrific suggestion - thank you so much! I do intend to go into the energy industry in TX.

Mos10
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Re: Entering UT, have questions

Postby Mos10 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:50 pm

deebanger wrote:So, OP since did your undergrad in Cali, I'm curious, why did you ed UT, and say not a school like UCLA


I love Texas. And the California market is so much more impacted.




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