Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

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oblitigate
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby oblitigate » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:28 pm

PepperJack wrote:There's this guy from the same thread pretending to be the Dean four-years ago, adding some credibility to the troll possibility (and I must admit I find him to be an excellent writer):

LawBoy wrote:
Because the ABA requires that an ABA accredited school hire a fixed percentage of full-time law professors to students (15 to 1, 12 to 1 are numbers that are thought to be current, but the actual number is a secret!), and pay a minimum salary, schools like Monterey College of Law (MCL) will ever be accredited; they hire only part-time professors, who are lawyers and judges in real life. The school operates only at night, and by my estimate carries about 130 students at any given time. Full-time professors are not an option for this school.

Because the ABA has a requirement that an accredited school carry a fixed number of volume of books in its law library, a number that is not a reality for a school of 130 students who attend school about 12 hours per week, MCL will never gain accreditation.

At an ABA school you will not likely get the personalized attention from your professors that you find at MCL. When you pass the bar and finally open a practice or join a firm you will know quite a few actual practicing local attorneys who are already familiar with you.

That first time you step into a courtroom and have to face a judge, it sure does not hurt that last summer it was this very judge who taught you courtroom procedures and practice.

Yes MCL might be for you if you plan to practice in California and not out of state. MCL might be for you if this is not your first career and you do not plan to take a job that requires 75 hours a week as a new attorney would expect. MCL might be for you if you do not want to have a student loan debt that matches the national budget of a small third world nation.

Many people who go to MCL never plan to take the bar and become an attorney; they cannot afford the pay cut from their current jobs as CEO, doctors, dentists, bankers etc.

When you read that MCL who is pushing 30 years of service to their community has “still not” gained ABA acceptance, consider this; MCL does NOT want to take that road. ABA accreditation would be the death nell for schools like MCL; it would drive the prices way up, would require a huge growth in the student population that is unrealistic for a community based law school and would take the focus off the goal of MCL; to provide a quality education at realistic prices producing lawyers who will benefit their community and not simply leave the area to work for Goldman Sachs, Exxon, or Enron.

I graduated from MCL 13 years ago, am licensed in California, and the US Supreme Court. I am a partner in a local law firm, left MCL with no debt; appear in court at over 30 hearings per month. Only once has a potential client asked me what law school I attended. I told him, and helped him with his legal issue. I am happy to say that HE will be graduating from MCL in just about a month. I made many friends at MCL who are still an important part of my life. Very often the lawyer at the other table is also a graduate of MCL, it never hurts.


Those MCL alumni tho

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MCL Law Dean
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby MCL Law Dean » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:44 am

Glad to have provided entertainment for the past several pages of bashing, but as I previously explained, it is no less than I expect from the loyal band of TLS protectors of the realm. I get it and you can have at it.

In the mean time, in collaboration with our local Superior Court and the County Bar Association, MCL has announced three new low-bono, modest means clinics (to add to our existing five free advisory legal clinics) that will be staffed by our students to serve more of the underepresented and at-risk in our community. We are also partnering with the Superior Court, a local legal services corporation, and the Veterans Transition Center to conduct a Veterans Court and provide expungement services for area homeless veterans (a significant problem for our area). 100% of our students participate in our clinical programs.

FYI, for those who haven't had corporations yet, MCL is a 501(c)3 non-profit educational institution operated under the oversight of a local fiduciary board that currently includes, among others, four Superior Court judges and the County Counsel . . . so transparency is not a problem. We have budgets and pay rent, salaries, insurance, and utilities . . . and conduct an audit every year to report to the accreditors. So yes, we are a business that balances revenue and expenses. Our biggest difference is that excess revenue is invested back into the program and not paid out to private owners or shareholders.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby Mal Reynolds » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:49 am

Always enjoyable to see the scam dean argue against the people levying the critiques of his school rather than respond substantively.

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bjsesq
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby bjsesq » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:54 am

How about you respond to some of the critiques then trot out your wannabe martyr shtick?

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Ricky-Bobby
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby Ricky-Bobby » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:20 pm

MCL Law Dean wrote:. . . so transparency is not a problem. We have budgets and pay rent, salaries, insurance, and utilities . . . and conduct an audit every year to report to the accreditors. So yes, we are a business that balances revenue and expenses.

Where can I find all of this info?

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MCL Law Dean
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby MCL Law Dean » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:52 am

Ricky-Bobby wrote:
MCL Law Dean wrote:. . . so transparency is not a problem. We have budgets and pay rent, salaries, insurance, and utilities . . . and conduct an audit every year to report to the accreditors. So yes, we are a business that balances revenue and expenses.

Where can I find all of this info?


All 501(c)3 non-profits file an annual 990 tax report with the IRS. It is public record.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby Mal Reynolds » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:35 am

It's clear that this asshole just wants to bump this thread occasionally to stay searchable. What's worse is that he's basically lying at this point. There isn't any employment information available in the 501(c)3 forms that I could find. Here is 2012 which is the most recent I could find. Even though he's gonna claim that were "drinking the traditional law school koolaid" and probably gonna say were "playing right into his hands" or some bullshit it should be our job to drown this guy out. He's a shill to a horrible law school.

Here is the relevant info I could find:

Dean's Salary: $150k
Bar Passage Rage 2008 to 2012: 66% (80 people took it and 55 passed). Only 80 people took the bar and they've enrolled over 500 students in that same time period. Less than 20% of their students even sit for the bar.

What's even more shocking about that is they don't even graduate all of their class, even though I'm sure they all pay tuition. In 2012 only 77% graduated from their fucking school. So basically most students either don't finish and even get a degree from this shit school, or they finish and don't take the bar. What a scam.

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bjsesq
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:38 am

Mal Reynolds wrote:It's clear that this asshole just wants to bump this thread occasionally to stay searchable. What's worse is that he's basically lying at this point. There isn't any employment information available in the 501(c)3 forms that I could find. Here is 2012 which is the most recent I could find. Even though he's gonna claim that were "drinking the traditional law school koolaid" and probably gonna say were "playing right into his hands" or some bullshit it should be our job to drown this guy out. He's a shill to a horrible law school.

Here is the relevant info I could find:

Dean's Salary: $150k
Bar Passage Rage 2008 to 2012: 66% (80 people took it and 55 passed). Only 80 people took the bar and they've enrolled over 500 students in that same time period. Less than 20% of their students even sit for the bar.

What's even more shocking about that is they don't even graduate all of their class, even though I'm sure they all pay tuition. In 2012 only 77% graduated from their fucking school. So basically most students either don't finish and even get a degree from this shit school, or they finish and don't take the bar. What a scam.

He won't respond to these real criticisms because he is a turd.

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Ricky-Bobby
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby Ricky-Bobby » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:41 am

Damn Mal, I was just going to ask about the $40k personal loan.

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cron1834
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby cron1834 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:12 pm

This probably belongs in the "professionals" forum, given the snake oil being sold...

should-i-do-it
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby should-i-do-it » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:45 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:It's clear that this asshole just wants to bump this thread occasionally to stay searchable. What's worse is that he's basically lying at this point.


Why don't we ban the jackass

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby TheSpanishMain » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:43 pm

MCL Law Dean wrote:
Ricky-Bobby wrote:
MCL Law Dean wrote:. . . so transparency is not a problem. We have budgets and pay rent, salaries, insurance, and utilities . . . and conduct an audit every year to report to the accreditors. So yes, we are a business that balances revenue and expenses.

Where can I find all of this info?


All 501(c)3 non-profits file an annual 990 tax report with the IRS. It is public record.


I'd still like to know whether you believe that everyone who wants to be a lawyer should be allowed to become one, or if there is a certain point at which the LSAT denotes genuine stupidity and respectable schools should not admit him/her.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:54 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
MCL Law Dean wrote:
Ricky-Bobby wrote:
MCL Law Dean wrote:. . . so transparency is not a problem. We have budgets and pay rent, salaries, insurance, and utilities . . . and conduct an audit every year to report to the accreditors. So yes, we are a business that balances revenue and expenses.

Where can I find all of this info?


All 501(c)3 non-profits file an annual 990 tax report with the IRS. It is public record.


I'd still like to know whether you believe that everyone who wants to be a lawyer should be allowed to become one, or if there is a certain point at which the LSAT denotes genuine stupidity and respectable schools should not admit him/her.


You're missing the major point: even people who want to become lawyers, under this school's acceptance standards, can't if they go to Monterey. That's how terrible it is.

ilikebaseball
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby ilikebaseball » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:14 am

Literally no one here accepts anyone's bullshit. I love it.

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North
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby North » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:17 am

choward014 wrote:Literally no one here accepts anyone's bullshit. I love it.

Image

ilikebaseball
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby ilikebaseball » Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:45 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:This is just sad.

Fun fact: I think the Dean of Texas Tech and this dude are the two biggest hucksters on this board. Turns out that the MCL dean used to work at TT also. Cut from the same cloth those two.


Also, I dont think you can associate this guy with Dean Perez. Even though they both represent "non top law schools" on a top law school forum, Perez seemed to only want to answer questions that students had and generate interest in the program. He didn't misrepresent any information or intentionally mislead anyone with "employment statistics that have nothing to do with a law degree." Perez seemed like a great guy to get information from and I thought he represented Tech well.


However, this guy seemed bad from the first sentence. Dean, sir... with all do respect, your first sentence deters anyone who would even have an inclination to look this school up. First of all, referring to yourself in the 3rd person is pretty insane, but then you go on to say how you don't know why anyone WOULDNT be interested in your law school. You attempt to back this up with employment statistics that would seem okay to the average reader. Luckily, someone here (as he should have) called you out on it. Under 50% of your grads even use their law degree in a law profession. So in other words, the % of employed people that DIDNT use their law degree didn't even need to go to law school at all. I bet if we asked them, they're pissed they wasted 3 years of their life getting a degree they didn't even need when they could have been spending those 3 years at the same job building their annual salary every single year. Now, they most likely have debt, have the same job they would've had, and are 3 years closer to retirement.

If you think you can come on TLS and state the BS your spitting, you gotta remember that the members here arent simpletons. You come on here to try to advertise for your law school (which is perfectly fine) but then you mislead people with your employment stats. That's what derailed this thread

BillsFan9907
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby BillsFan9907 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:45 pm

This is by far one of the most amazing threads I have ever read. Where did Winnick go?
Last edited by BillsFan9907 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bjsesq
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby bjsesq » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:47 pm

Seoulless wrote:This is by far one of the most amazing thread's I have ever read. Where did Winnick go?

Paradise, apparently. Fucking tool.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Monterey College of Law - an accredited non-ABA Option

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:16 pm

I'm glad he doesn't post. More traditional law school koolaid for us.




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