Academia careers

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
sju2018
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Academia careers

Postby sju2018 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:24 pm

Hey everybody,
I am fairly new to the forum and am still exploring my options. Currently I am a senior graduating with a BA in Criminal Justice. I will be staying one extra year to complete my MS in Criminal Justice. I have a 4.0 in all major related coursework and a 3.9 career. Majority of my coursework has also been geared towards law and legal proceedings (i.e. crim. law, crim. procedure, constitutional law, business law). If I decide to pursue my JD, what are the options like for someone who wishes to become not only a law school professor but also a professor of Criminal Justice? Would the JD allow me to eventually gain a permanent position as a professor in an institution or would the terminal PhD in CRJ be necessary? Are there any particular schools I should pursue (aside from Yale, Harvard, Princeton) Thank you in advance for the advice.

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monsterman
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Re: Academia careers

Postby monsterman » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:26 pm

sju2018 wrote:Hey everybody,
I am fairly new to the forum and am still exploring my options. Currently I am a senior graduating with a BA in Criminal Justice. I will be staying one extra year to complete my MS in Criminal Justice. I have a 4.0 in all major related coursework and a 3.9 career. Majority of my coursework has also been geared towards law and legal proceedings (i.e. crim. law, crim. procedure, constitutional law, business law). If I decide to pursue my JD, what are the options like for someone who wishes to become not only a law school professor but also a professor of Criminal Justice? Would the JD allow me to eventually gain a permanent position as a professor in an institution or would the terminal PhD in CRJ be necessary? Are there any particular schools I should pursue (aside from Yale, Harvard, Princeton) Thank you in advance for the advice.


Haha trollololol

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swampman
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Re: Academia careers

Postby swampman » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:33 pm

monsterman wrote:
Haha trollololol


Princeton gave it away.

aryncita
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Re: Academia careers

Postby aryncita » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:26 pm

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not a troll:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=189981

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Br3v
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Re: Academia careers

Postby Br3v » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:35 pm

sju2018 wrote:Hey everybody,
I am fairly new to the forum and am still exploring my options. Currently I am a senior graduating with a BA in Criminal Justice. I will be staying one extra year to complete my MS in Criminal Justice. I have a 4.0 in all major related coursework and a 3.9 career. Majority of my coursework has also been geared towards law and legal proceedings (i.e. crim. law, crim. procedure, constitutional law, business law). If I decide to pursue my JD, what are the options like for someone who wishes to become not only a law school professor but also a professor of Criminal Justice? Would the JD allow me to eventually gain a permanent position as a professor in an institution or would the terminal PhD in CRJ be necessary? Are there any particular schools I should pursue (aside from Yale, Harvard, Princeton) Thank you in advance for the advice.


Outside of Harvard, Yale, Standord, and Chicago, legal academia is tuff to break. Having a PhD can help depending on the field (Econ is big) but if you want to be a criminal justice professor I would probably recommend pursuing that first and seeing where the PhD alone gets you.

HYS > Chi >> > T14

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Academia careers

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:41 pm

Of the departments of criminal justice that I'm familiar with, almost no one has a JD - it's overwhelmingly PhDs in criminal justice. Generally, departments which require the terminal degree in the field will require a PhD - the JD is not considered the same as a subject area doctorate. (There's no dissertation or equivalent.) It's possible that the JD might be sufficient to teach in some community college programs.

Also, moved to correct forum, but please look for the rules at the top of each forum to determine where you can post.

sju2018
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Re: Academia careers

Postby sju2018 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:18 pm

Thank you for your answers and I apologize for posting in the wrong section. So far on my list of schools I have NYU, Columbia, and Fordham. I have taken a practice LSAT and received a 164. I am hoping with my GPA and LSAT I have a decent shot at NYU or Columbia. Are those two schools that have an edge in academia in the New York are (both NYC and LI)? I know my current school, a small private college, has professors in my department that have their JD alone and only teach in the Pre-Law program. Once again, thank you for your help.

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stillwater
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Re: Academia careers

Postby stillwater » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:25 pm

sju2018 wrote:Thank you for your answers and I apologize for posting in the wrong section. So far on my list of schools I have NYU, Columbia, and Fordham. I have taken a practice LSAT and received a 164. I am hoping with my GPA and LSAT I have a decent shot at NYU or Columbia. Are those two schools that have an edge in academia in the New York are (both NYC and LI)? I know my current school, a small private college, has professors in my department that have their JD alone and only teach in the Pre-Law program. Once again, thank you for your help.


neither of those schools is particularly great for academia and your LSAT score has you leagues away from NYU/Columbia. Need to push taht closer to at least 170 to be safe. Fordham will not get you academia.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Academia careers

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:38 pm

sju2018 wrote:Thank you for your answers and I apologize for posting in the wrong section. So far on my list of schools I have NYU, Columbia, and Fordham. I have taken a practice LSAT and received a 164. I am hoping with my GPA and LSAT I have a decent shot at NYU or Columbia. Are those two schools that have an edge in academia in the New York are (both NYC and LI)? I know my current school, a small private college, has professors in my department that have their JD alone and only teach in the Pre-Law program. Once again, thank you for your help.

Well, a lot of schools don't have a pre-law program. Teaching pre-law also isn't the same as teaching criminal justice. Are those professors full-time/tenure-track?

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iamgeorgebush
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Re: Academia careers

Postby iamgeorgebush » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:19 am

Just a note on the LSAT: if you scored a 164 on a practice test without having studied beforehand, it's likely that you could score in the mid to high 170s after having studied. With your GPA, a mid to high 170s would make you competitive at Yale and Harvard, the best schools for academia (as I understand it). Thus, in the unlikely event that this is not a troll post, please do yourself a favor and give the LSAT the attention it deserves.

jmjm
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Re: Academia careers

Postby jmjm » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:49 pm

How did Elizabeth warren with a rutgers JD become a tenured professor at harvard? She was a professor at Penn/UT before it.

Considering how much prestige matters in academic hiring, how is it possible that she got hired as rutgers is ranked close to 84?

js1663
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Re: Academia careers

Postby js1663 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:13 pm

jmjm wrote:How did Elizabeth warren with a rutgers JD become a tenured professor at harvard? She was a professor at Penn/UT before it.

Considering how much prestige matters in academic hiring, how is it possible that she got hired as rutgers is ranked close to 84?

.
Last edited by js1663 on Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

lnh819
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Re: Academia careers

Postby lnh819 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:49 pm

I go to what is technically a TTT and 80% of the professors have their JD from either a T-14 or are alumni. Almost all clerked and/or had BigLaw experience before transitioning into academia. A large number were on Law Review and (almost) all of them have an impressive publication history. If you want to be in academia, listen to the advice here and go to a T-14 (Harvard or Yale in particular) and be in the top 10-15% of your class. Otherwise, unless you're somehow hired as an adjunct by your alma mater in a long-shot scenario, you'll be locked out of academia, almost certainly forever.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Academia careers

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:07 pm

jmjm wrote:How did Elizabeth warren with a rutgers JD become a tenured professor at harvard? She was a professor at Penn/UT before it.

Considering how much prestige matters in academic hiring, how is it possible that she got hired as rutgers is ranked close to 84?

Because 1) this was the late 1970s-1990s, mostly before the USNWR rankings even existed, 2) she started at Rutgers, then went to U of Houston, then to Texas, then to Penn and to Harvard, so she worked her way up, and 3) although prestige is a huge thing, placing in highly-ranked law reviews and producing well-received research will actually win you the ability to move to better schools. Publications trump almost everything else. There's just often a correlation between prestige and publications.

jmjm
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Re: Academia careers

Postby jmjm » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:18 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
jmjm wrote:How did Elizabeth warren with a rutgers JD become a tenured professor at harvard? She was a professor at Penn/UT before it.

Considering how much prestige matters in academic hiring, how is it possible that she got hired as rutgers is ranked close to 84?

Because 1) this was the late 1970s-1990s, mostly before the USNWR rankings even existed, 2) she started at Rutgers, then went to U of Houston, then to Texas, then to Penn and to Harvard, so she worked her way up, and 3) although prestige is a huge thing, placing in highly-ranked law reviews and producing well-received research will actually win you the ability to move to better schools. Publications trump almost everything else. There's just often a correlation between prestige and publications.


these factors may have contributed to her getting hired at harvard, still it appears to be almost unbelievable that 80+ ranked Jd can get hired as harvard professor. is there any indication that the quality of her publications was extraordinary or she was highly prolific?
the native american claim seems actually quite fantastic.
This says that USNWR began in 1987 (she was hired at harvard in 1992) even though it's possible that in the beginning the rankings may not have held much sway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_school ... rld_Report

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Academia careers

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:59 am

Obviously it's unusual, but that doesn't make it impossible. My point is that by the time she was hired at Harvard, she'd been a prof for a while and so she had a measurable body of research and track record of success. Sometimes merit actually matters more than pedigree. Also, she didn't go from graduating Rutgers to teaching at Harvard Law; she went from teaching at U Penn to teaching at Harvard Law. As for her publications, you can see a selected list at Wikipedia, and it looks like pretty substantial body of work to me.

There may have been other factors at work (the Native American thing, she married a Harvard prof), but given her current national prominence, it's not like Harvard misjudged her potential for success.

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Young Marino
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Re: Academia careers

Postby Young Marino » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:36 am

I remember when I was considering a TTTT in Georgia and a lot of their professors went to UGA, Emory. Also, a few TTTTs in FL have faculty primarily from FSU and UF. Seems like if you go to a state flagship and practice for a few years you might be able to land a TTTT teaching job in that state. You can also teach at a community college with a JD from just about anywhere so there's that too.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Academia careers

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:47 am

Young Marino wrote:I remember when I was considering a TTTT in Georgia and a lot of their professors went to UGA, Emory. Also, a few TTTTs in FL have faculty primarily from FSU and UF. Seems like if you go to a state flagship and practice for a few years you might be able to land a TTTT teaching job in that state. You can also teach at a community college with a JD from just about anywhere so there's that too.

No, not all community colleges will hire you to teach with a JD.




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