Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

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Psingh
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Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby Psingh » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:36 pm

For the purposes of finding a job in one of the major cities such as NYC or LA, would the employers prefer to hire someone who graduated in the top 5% of a low ranked school vs someone who graduated pretty much in the bottom of his class from a T14 school?

The reason I'm asking is because if your application is just barely strong enough to get into a T14, your application is most likely strong enough to get into a lower ranked school with a good scholarship. So if employment prospects are better for the lower ranked school if you graduate on top of your class, you'll be in less debt and find a job more easily. Also you'll excel in law school because you're competing against a much much easier curve than if you went to a T14. So it would be a win-win situation for you. This is just something I thought of. What do you guys think?

09042014
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:39 pm

Bottom 5% at a T14 would be well below bottom quarter at a T69 school.

ClerkAdvisor
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby ClerkAdvisor » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:58 pm

Psingh wrote:For the purposes of finding a job in one of the major cities such as NYC or LA, would the employers prefer to hire someone who graduated in the top 5% of a low ranked school vs someone who graduated pretty much in the bottom of his class from a T14 school?

The reason I'm asking is because if your application is just barely strong enough to get into a T14, your application is most likely strong enough to get into a lower ranked school with a good scholarship. So if employment prospects are better for the lower ranked school if you graduate on top of your class, you'll be in less debt and find a job more easily. Also you'll excel in law school because you're competing against a much much easier curve than if you went to a T14. So it would be a win-win situation for you. This is just something I thought of. What do you guys think?


No.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=189981

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Clearly
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby Clearly » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:59 pm

Psingh wrote:For the purposes of finding a job in one of the major cities such as NYC or LA, would the employers prefer to hire someone who graduated in the top 5% of a low ranked school vs someone who graduated pretty much in the bottom of his class from a T14 school?

The reason I'm asking is because if your application is just barely strong enough to get into a T14, your application is most likely strong enough to get into a lower ranked school with a good scholarship. So if employment prospects are better for the lower ranked school if you graduate on top of your class, you'll be in less debt and find a job more easily. Also you'll excel in law school because you're competing against a much much easier curve than if you went to a T14. So it would be a win-win situation for you. This is just something I thought of. What do you guys think?

Good God this is bad thinking.

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PepperJack
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby PepperJack » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:05 pm

Unless there's just a huge IQ gap, people perform better around smart people working hard. For employment though, top 5 percent at a TTTT is better than bottom 5 percent at a non-HYS. I just dk why this would impact school choices.

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lawhopeful10
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby lawhopeful10 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:10 pm

This has been discussed a million times on this site. Your odds of success at a lower rank school go up slightly but not enough to catch the drop in employment statistics. So if you have normal numbers for a T-14 but choose a regional school instead you might have slightly higher odds at doing well but no guarantee and the employment drop off is much greater. So sure for some people a free ride to a regional is the better choice but don't just assume you will be top 10% or something.

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Danger Zone
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby Danger Zone » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:12 pm

Your hypo is bad and you should feel bad.

nebula666
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby nebula666 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:15 pm

If you take the full ride, you'll probably be median. If you go to T14, you'll probably be median.

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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:20 pm

To answer your question: top 5% at T70 is in a much better position than bottom 5% at a T14. You will have a very good chance at big law and will get a ton of interviews.

However, as others above have pointed out, it is definitely possible to take a full ride and end up median at a T70. There is, for sure, a correlation between a student's GPA/LSAT combination and their law school grades, but it is an imperfect correlation. If you turn down a T14 for a T70 the only way this makes sense is if you end up at a minimum top 10% and ideally top 5% of your class, and that's not a guarantee (although I made essentially this gamble myself).

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Ron Mexico
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby Ron Mexico » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:29 pm

What is the point of this hypo?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:32 pm

Although OP mentions it, I don't think he/she realizes how the forced curve actually works.

nebula666
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby nebula666 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:40 pm

Ron Mexico wrote:What is the point of this hypo?


So OP can pretend they are a special snowflake.

Psingh
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby Psingh » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:46 pm

Ron Mexico wrote:What is the point of this hypo?


What's the point of you making a USELESS post like that if you're not gonna be helpful?!

The point of the hypo is that's the situation I'm in with my numbers. I can just barely get into T14 at sticker but if I apply to a T70 I'll likely get a decent scholarship because of my LSAT score.

I'm still not sure what the answer to my question is. Some of you have criticized me for asking this question in the first place, others have said it's better to go to T70 while others have said go for the T14.

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gdane
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby gdane » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:50 pm

Wtf is a top 70? Stupid distinction.

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Borhas
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby Borhas » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:53 pm

Psingh wrote:
Ron Mexico wrote:What is the point of this hypo?


What's the point of you making a USELESS post like that if you're not gonna be helpful?!

The point of the hypo is that's the situation I'm in with my numbers. I can just barely get into T14 at sticker but if I apply to a T70 I'll likely get a decent scholarship because of my LSAT score.

I'm still not sure what the answer to my question is. Some of you have criticized me for asking this question in the first place, others have said it's better to go to T70 while others have said go for the T14.


Don't get me wrong, I think your hypo is bad, and you should feel bad, BUT

generally, the legal field values "prestige" more than it actually correlates to any sort of real world competence. Consequently, the drop in prestige is sharper than the drop in actual competence as you go down whatever rankings.
Last edited by Borhas on Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nebula666
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby nebula666 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:54 pm

Psingh wrote:
Ron Mexico wrote:What is the point of this hypo?


What's the point of you making a USELESS post like that if you're not gonna be helpful?!

The point of the hypo is that's the situation I'm in with my numbers. I can just barely get into T14 at sticker but if I apply to a T70 I'll likely get a decent scholarship because of my LSAT score.

I'm still not sure what the answer to my question is. Some of you have criticized me for asking this question in the first place, others have said it's better to go to T70 while others have said go for the T14.


No it is NOT the scenario you are in. You posted some fantasy dream of yours where going to a "T70" means you'll be in the Top 5%. You will very likely be somewhere between 30% and 70%, no matter how special you think you are.

We answered your questions. "T70" with a scholarship if you want non-biglaw. Retake for money at T14 if you want biglaw.

What else do you want to know?
Last edited by nebula666 on Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Psingh
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby Psingh » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:54 pm

gdane wrote:Wtf is a top 70? Stupid distinction.


Lol you get what I mean. I mean the school would be ranked around 70 on the rankings page of this site. The number of absolutely useless and low quality responses on this forum is crazy.

nebula666
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby nebula666 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:56 pm

Psingh wrote:
gdane wrote:Wtf is a top 70? Stupid distinction.


Lol you get what I mean. I mean the school would be ranked around 70 on the rankings page of this site. The number of absolutely useless and low quality responses on this forum is crazy.


Poor questions usually receive poor answers.

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gdane
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby gdane » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:57 pm

Psingh wrote:
gdane wrote:Wtf is a top 70? Stupid distinction.


Lol you get what I mean. I mean the school would be ranked around 70 on the rankings page of this site. The number of absolutely useless and low quality responses on this forum is crazy.

Because there are just too many variables in law school. This isn't a math equation that you will know the exact answer for. Everyone thinks that they're going to be top whatever percent at their school, but it doesn't happen like this. You have curves, other students, difficult subjects, loads of work.

I wish we could be helpful, but there's no definite answer to your question.

Psingh
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby Psingh » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:00 pm

nebula666 wrote:
Psingh wrote:
Ron Mexico wrote:What is the point of this hypo?


What's the point of you making a USELESS post like that if you're not gonna be helpful?!

The point of the hypo is that's the situation I'm in with my numbers. I can just barely get into T14 at sticker but if I apply to a T70 I'll likely get a decent scholarship because of my LSAT score.

I'm still not sure what the answer to my question is. Some of you have criticized me for asking this question in the first place, others have said it's better to go to T70 while others have said go for the T14.


No it is NOT the scenario you are in. You posted some fantasy dream of yours where going to GSU means you'll be in the Top 5%. You will very likely be somewhere between 30% and 70%, no matter how special you think you are.

We answered your questions. GSU with a scholarship if you want non-biglaw. Retake for money at T14 (or full ride at Emory) if you want biglaw.

What else do you want to know?


Thanks for your answer. Well clearly I'm not familiar with how the curves work hence the reason I'm asking. I just assumed if your bottom 5% in T14 you'll probably be top 5% in T70 since there's a huge difference in admission standards between the two. I'm ultra conservative about these things so no I never assumed I'm a special snowflake.

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Louis1127
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby Louis1127 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:08 pm

Psingh wrote:
nebula666 wrote:
Psingh wrote:
Ron Mexico wrote:What is the point of this hypo?


What's the point of you making a USELESS post like that if you're not gonna be helpful?!

The point of the hypo is that's the situation I'm in with my numbers. I can just barely get into T14 at sticker but if I apply to a T70 I'll likely get a decent scholarship because of my LSAT score.

I'm still not sure what the answer to my question is. Some of you have criticized me for asking this question in the first place, others have said it's better to go to T70 while others have said go for the T14.


No it is NOT the scenario you are in. You posted some fantasy dream of yours where going to GSU means you'll be in the Top 5%. You will very likely be somewhere between 30% and 70%, no matter how special you think you are.

We answered your questions. GSU with a scholarship if you want non-biglaw. Retake for money at T14 (or full ride at Emory) if you want biglaw.

What else do you want to know?


Thanks for your answer. Well clearly I'm not familiar with how the curves work hence the reason I'm asking. I just assumed if your bottom 5% in T14 you'll probably be top 5% in T70 since there's a huge difference in admission standards between the two. I'm ultra conservative about these things so no I never assumed I'm a special snowflake.


Good thing you stumbled upon TLS. Lots of ppl have make this false assumption. You have been saved!

nebula666
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby nebula666 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:09 pm

So what happens if 10% of the class is like you, OP, and takes the full ride thinking they will be in the top 5%? What happens then?

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zhenders
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby zhenders » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:11 pm

It's true to say that the logic of this hypo is pretty awful, mate. It is pretty much a guarantee that the kind of person who is top 5% at any accredited law school would not be bottom 5% at a T14. Top 5% at any accredited school entails the kind of work ethic to at least put that person in the middle of the more prestigious schools; your logic suggests that you will either be in the bottom 5% of a T14 or the top of a T70(?). If you have the work ethic and dedication to be top 5% in any school, you won't be practically failing at a T14.

Psingh
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby Psingh » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:23 pm

zhenders wrote:It's true to say that the logic of this hypo is pretty awful, mate. It is pretty much a guarantee that the kind of person who is top 5% at any accredited law school would not be bottom 5% at a T14. Top 5% at any accredited school entails the kind of work ethic to at least put that person in the middle of the more prestigious schools; your logic suggests that you will either be in the bottom 5% of a T14 or the top of a T70(?). If you have the work ethic and dedication to be top 5% in any school, you won't be practically failing at a T14.


Ok fair enough. If this is the situation, it implies that the quality of education you receive at a T70 is pretty closely in line with that of a T14. So the average law student at a GSU has to put in almost the same amount of time and effort studying in law school than the average student at Duke let's say.

So what then is the fetish of "attend only T14 or you will die" that seems to be the consensus among all the forums and the lawyers I've talked to? If the quality of education is almost the same and you might even have to pay less money, why go to Duke over a T70?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Bottom 5% at T14 or Top 5% at ~T70?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:26 pm

Employment opportunities. More people get (arguably better) jobs out of Duke than the TT school.




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